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I can totally picture Fledz reading the Declaration of Independence and Constitution and shouting, "oh man, these things right here are the worst things about America! The worst! Mother, are you listening?!"

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Which one are you referring to? All of them? You just hate them all?

It's some white-paper relating to the due diligence in the acquisition of Georgia. He's going on and on about some financial irregularity on their P&L but I checked the accounts this morning and everything lines up with what's on the General Ledger. I warned you he was not a good choice to head up Mergers and Acquisitions but you insisted his cautious nature made him a good candidate.

PKC would have just made it fit but now we're looking at a fucking audit while your god-damned golden child invokes the Whistle Blower's Protection Act.







Ania, fire up the fucking shredder!

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Originally posted by Theresa but I do dislike a lot of their "culture". I don't like the overly patriotic fools who strut around thinking they are the shit. I don't like the fat ass, lazy leechers with entitlement problems. I don't like the gun toting/loving morons who think they have the right to everything. I don't like the crazy religious nut bars. I don't like the war mongering crowd. Etc. etc.

This is not American "culture."

Your problem is that you're mixing up the white trash Republican bible-belt Tea-party idiots culture, with "American" culture. Regardless, it's pretty hard to really define an "American" culture, as the country is composed of so many different cultures.

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Originally posted by srussell0018 This is not American "culture."

That is how the culture is perceived and, to a significant extent, that makes it our culture. It's not just a "grain of truth" perception problem, either. While some of her perceptions are a little inaccurate, they are, never-the-less, based in reality.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker That is how the culture is perceived and, to a significant extent, that makes it our culture. It's not just a "grain of truth" perception problem, either. While some of her perceptions are a little inaccurate, they are, never-the-less, based in reality.

I guess, but a lot of people think that all French women don't shave their armpits. Does that mean it's part of the French culture for women to not shave their armpits?

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Originally posted by EddieZilker That is how the culture is perceived and, to a significant extent, that makes it our culture. It's not just a "grain of truth" perception problem, either. While some of her perceptions are a little inaccurate, they are, never-the-less, based in reality.

But in another thread you were elaborating on the disparity between the perception and the truth of Islam. Does the same logic not apply here?

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On But in another thread you were elaborating on the disparity between the perception and the truth of Islam. Does the same logic not apply here?

An incorrect perception doesn't make it a valid supporter of an overall generalization. Good point.

Its a bunch of nonsense hating on people based the country they are from, race, occupation, etc. I react to people on a case by case basis. Besides the thin cultural veneer people are people. When I go on vacation if people are open minded and allow for cultural differences there is never a problem. I try to be mindful and do my best to abide by my hosts norms. I think its unreasonable to expect people from another country to share the same cultural norms and be mad at them.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On But in another thread you were elaborating on the disparity between the perception and the truth of Islam. Does the same logic not apply here?

I think I'm in a little more of a position to make such assertions about my own culture, here, but my sentiments are validated by the projection of (negative) American Culture, in the media. Political ads, Jersey Shore, and The Biggest Loser, among other celebrations of American pathology, certainly give bona fides to the generalizations being made.

While Al Jazeera plays out terrorist propaganda, they don't necessarily play to the stock stereotypes the way American Media plays into, here. I think it's utterly fair to apply the same logic but in applying the same logic, I think a noted disparity between the two, is achieved.

I think that television tends to shape people far more than people tend to shape television. Of course there are "people" in control of the communication aspect of what a particular (un)script is attempting to achieve, but on a far wider scale, the audience plays into the transmission because it has been suggested by the enveloping grimace of commercial prescription, not because it is necessarily the natural inclination of any target stereotype. Of course it can just as well be argued as a chicken-and-the-egg scenario that stereotypes come from people, first, and television is a representation of something that initially existed in its relative rarity, but the viral dissemination of memes and folkways is more potent an occurence than truth in the media, if you ask me.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On I think that television tends to shape people far more than people tend to shape television. Of course there are "people" in control of the communication aspect of what a particular (un)script is attempting to achieve, but on a far wider scale, the audience plays into the transmission because it has been suggested by the enveloping grimace of commercial prescription, not because it is necessarily the natural inclination of any target stereotype. Of course it can just as well be argued as a chicken-and-the-egg scenario that stereotypes come from people, first, and television is a representation of something that initially existed in its relative rarity, but the viral dissemination of memes and folkways is more potent an occurence than truth in the media, if you ask me.

I don't know if you've seen it, and even though it's a little old, I think it speaks volumes to how the media behaves, currently.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cool/

You're speaking to a literal feedback loop. CNN borrowing from its Twitter feedback to generate news banter is an example of it. Fran Liebowitz, in Public Speaking, remarked that we have democratized our culture while relinquishing democratic control of our politics.

cultural xenophobia has always existed, the only thing has changed is the method of distribution.

It's funny how people bash America for being xenophobic and racist, when Japan openly embraces these traits. For some reason it's acceptable for them though. Why?

They all look the same.

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Originally posted by WittyHandle It's funny how people bash America for being xenophobic and racist, when Japan openly embraces these traits. For some reason it's acceptable for them though. Why?

Actually, I hated Japan exactly for this reason.

As a matter of fact, a funny thing happened to me in Sendai. I was on my way to the underground station when a kid on a bike stopped and kept staring at me — he looked so surprised I actually felt like a tourist attraction. I waved back and he ran away. A couple of blocks later the very same kid appeared out of the blue in front of me and kept staring. As a very friendly foreigner, I said "Hi!" in Japanese, but it seems to have scared him. Later on, in front of the underground station this kid comes back and stares at me again. Rather amused by all this, I decided to have some fun myself. I frowned, and stared back for what must've been a full minute. When I realised he wouldn't do anything, I said "boo!" and waited for his reaction. As I expected, he got on his bicycle and pedalled away

But I overheard two or three comments about my presence there that were rather funny, so I wasn't really rude to anyone...

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Originally posted by Lira Actually, I hated Japan exactly for this reason. As a matter of fact, a funny thing happened to me in Sendai. I was on my way to the underground station when a kid on a bike stopped and kept staring at me — he looked so surprised I actually felt like a tourist attraction. I waved back and he ran away. A couple of blocks later the very same kid appeared out of the blue in front of me and kept staring. As a very friendly foreigner, I said "Hi!" in Japanese, but it seems to have scared him. Later on, in front of the underground station this kid comes back and stares at me again. Rather amused by all this, I decided to have some fun myself. I frowned, and stared back for what must've been a full minute. When I realised he wouldn't do anything, I said "boo!" and waited for his reaction. As I expected, he got on his bicycle and pedalled away But I overheard two or three comments about my presence there that were rather funny, so I wasn't really rude to anyone...

Don't you think its a little unfair to judge a country based on one inquisitive ghost?

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Originally posted by igottaknow Don't you think its a little unfair to judge a country based on one inquisitive ghost?

I just picked a story, I could've given you several other reasons why I felt uncomfortable there. And, mind you, I pretty much live in a Japanese community here in Brazil. In my office where I'm studying right now, I'm the only person without an Asian ancestry in a 50 metres radius... and I like the community here way better than anything I found there.

Why?

Because the lack of foreigners in Japan is appalling. It's well bizarre: You see signs in English and in Portuguese, I bought as many books in Japan as I did in London (and just two of them were in Japanese), and yet I could count on my fingers how many non-Asian foreigners I met there. As a matter of fact, there Japanese government only lets Japanese-blooded Brazilians emigrate there, and imposes several restrictions on everyone else. It contrasted sharply with what I found in London, where I spoke at least 5 languages in 3 days (and heard at least half a dozen more). And I'm not just talking about Tokyo (where I also spent 3 days), but a whole country. They often panic when you approach them to ask for directions. It's no wonder that no interesting idea ever come out from the archipelago: the influx of new ways of thinking from outsiders is very limited.

ps.: As for the lack of outsiders near my office, it's a temporary thing. I'm the only nutter studying here after the end of the school year

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Originally posted by Lira I just picked a story, I could've given you several other reasons why I felt uncomfortable there. And, mind you, I pretty much live in a Japanese community here in Brazil. In my office where I'm studying right now, I'm the only person without an Asian ancestry in a 50 metres radius... and I like the community here way better than anything I found there. Why? Because the lack of foreigners in Japan is appalling. It's well bizarre: You see signs in English and in Portuguese, I bought as many books in Japan as I did in London (and just two of them were in Japanese), and yet I could count on my fingers how many non-Asian foreigners I met there. As a matter of fact, there Japanese government only lets Japanese-blooded Brazilians emigrate there, and imposes several restrictions on everyone else. It contrasted sharply with what I found in London, where I spoke at least 5 languages in 3 days (and heard at least half a dozen more). And I'm not just talking about Tokyo (where I also spent 3 days), but a whole country. They often panic when you approach them to ask for directions. It's no wonder that no interesting idea ever come out from the archipelago: the influx of new ways of thinking from outsiders is very limited. ps.: As for the lack of outsiders near my office, it's a temporary thing. I'm the only nutter studying here after the end of the school year

For such a small country I'm impressed by how influential they are in the world. Manga cartoons, cars, video games, electronics, etc. I've never been to Japan but I've heard similar and differing opinions to yours. I'm not sure why its like that. I think its more an immigration population policy by the government since they have adopted a lot of American culture. The US government is with its faults too.

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Originally posted by igottaknow For such a small country I'm impressed by how influential they are in the world. Manga cartoons, cars, video games, electronics, etc. Since I've never been to Japan but I've heard similar and differing opinions to yours. I'm not sure why its like that.

Mind you, I said no interesting idea ever come out of Japan. Cars, video games, electronics... they aren't ideas, they're products. Japan is a great economy, that's why they're influential. And they're very good at making stuff, I give you that. Ant they're very good at appropriating foreign ideas and cranking them up to eleven (reason why you have music genres like Shibuya-kei, for example). But they're a technological society, so to speak, not really a philosophical (or a speculatively scientific) one.

I'm sort of busy right now so I can't back up all my arguments, but will do it as soon as I get the chance

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Originally posted by Lira I'm sort of busy right now so I can't back up all my arguments, but will do it as soon as I get the chance

Oh no! Is it too late to take back what I said?

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Originally posted by igottaknow Oh no! Is it too late to take back what I said?

Haha, it's all right, I'll spare your soul then

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Originally posted by Lira Haha, it's all right, I'll spare your soul then

I was j/k. I'm not interested in getting into a deep debate right now but it would make an interesting topic.

In a related side note a friend of mine who had moved to America said it wasn't that friendly. Of course I wanted to defend the US and asked her to clarify. She said everyone rushes back and forth from their jobs in their cars to their compartmentalized suburb housing. It's not uncommon to drive through a neighborhood and not see anyone outside (even in the summer). After which the same place now looked a little different to me.

It probably doesn't directly compare to what you are saying and maybe its more a reflection of modern society. I guess my point is society can look very different depending on where you are standing especially to foreigners.

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Originally posted by WittyHandle It's funny how people bash America for being xenophobic and racist, when Japan openly embraces these traits. For some reason it's acceptable for them though. Why?

Well, the US was founded by a bunch of migrants. and its been populated by migrants since. Its fairly silly comparing a nation whose existed for thousands of years, and has a huge history and pride about their long existence to one whose been around 300 years (their areas of ideological pride also come directly from the works of french and english politicians and philosophers too, so its not particularly special either), and has no specific long-reaching cultural or historic background...

the fact that Japan is blatantly xenophobic is also very different to the US because Japan is (at least) honest!

The US claims complete openness, and other PLUR things (constitution), but entirely fails to live up to them. Japan doesn't promise any such nonsense.

Outcomes are therefore similar, BUT one is honest, one is a complete hypocrisy

honesty is a starting point for change: Hypocrisy creates bitterness, hatred and is impossible to get out of.

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Originally posted by Lira Because the lack of foreigners in Japan is appalling. It's well bizarre:

haha its awesome: I was there 5 weeks, and went to lots of touristy places and saw a whitey a week... I was there in winter though, so missed the super-tourist times... I also didn't really go out to bars and crap, so surely would have seen more...

anyway, the japanese are EXTREMELY nice to tourists, especially if you make any effort in speaking their language etc, which is fairly at odds with a lot of other xenophobic places who treat tourists like shit.

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Originally posted by EgosXII The US claims complete openness, and other PLUR things (constitution), but entirely fails to live up to them. Japan doesn't promise any such nonsense.

Care to highlight the "complete openness" amendment? I must have missed that one all along.

If you're thinking of that etching on the base of the statue of liberty... I'll remind you it was a goddamned gift. It's like when Grandma gets you a sweater with a duck on it, and you hate ducks.

//ESPECIALLY Mexican ducks!

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Care to highlight the "complete openness" amendment? I must have missed that one all along. If you're thinking of that etching on the base of the statue of liberty... I'll remind you it was a goddamned gift. It's like when Grandma gets you a sweater with a duck on it, and you hate ducks. //ESPECIALLY Mexican ducks!

unalienable rights of man: All peoples are equal and have rights to live how they want etc

liberal shit like that can never be solely nationalistic (rights only for citizens, or people born in the US), its a declaration saying that human beings are fundamentally the same, and have the same rights while alive--

xenophobia is in contrast to the very foundations of American society, historically and ideologically at least

of course, mexican ducks do override that to an extent... they're just so fluffy and make you look ridiculous, cute and altogether uncool

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