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I dont know who he/she was working from the bonzai label. screw em. There are a ton of labels not paying anything to their artists from what I hear from producers around my level. I believe bonzai pays and they're pretty legit; there are a few producers on these boards signed with them.

wow that's amazing



I have a little story to tell which I will lay out if I don't hear back from these guys within 5 days


But really, that is fucking amazing. Producers are like "here, make money off of this for me! Thanks!" and that's the kind of attitude you get in return...


There should be some kind of producers guild/union

$200 minimum payout is just.... dafuq? Was that in the contract?

I dont think that was the actual number, It was 2 years ago, I cant recall it. I think it was lower but I cant remember. I probably shouldn't of had posted that, it doesn't solve anything and generates more negativity. Sorry.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/music_industry


oh man what a sad state of affairs


just reading through the comments...

http://www.reddit.com/r/Music/comme...ustry/?sort=top

quote:

Originally posted by MSZ I had a remix with bonzai, I didnt have a clue about anything at the time being fresh as fuck, I asked them for information, they were fucking cunts. let me find the email. le me: le bonzai: I believe they had like a 200 dollar payout minimum or something. yea suck my dick.

I'm sorry but what you're posting here is not the truth.

the minimum payout for royalty with my label was maximum! 75 $/euros and not 200. That would be ridiculous in the digital era. We even allow lower payouts out of experience, esp with artists like you who live far away. It's never been even close to 100. Nowadays we even paypal 25/26$ sometimes.

I see just a fraction of your e-mail exchange in the post and I'll be eager to read, in a few hours when my colleagues wake up, the full e-mail exchange then if you don't mind. we have nothing to hide anyway. And if you feel unhappy with our e-mail communication, well you see me a bit sad.

What I know is that what any gets from them is 100% the income they should get, while with labels like mine, they get royalty and then also their author rights, ASSUMING THEY ARE ATTACHED TO THEIR LOCAL AUTHOR RIGHTS COMPANY. Which means if you didn't subscribe to the local company in Canada, a country that applies the rules of the Bern convention, then you are yourself responsible of your loss of income/author rights, as they hold it for 3 years for you and then put it into their own accounting. We (vinyl/cd)/iTunes pay publishing for example, I know out of experience that many others don't (beatport), but those author rights companies get also money for you when fm/air (not web) radios play your stuff (they should). Not getting attached to an author rights company is in fact... not very legal either, but the situation for example in Georgia (not the state) is clearly different, and those peeps get the gross of their income off portals who don't pay author rights. Still, we're working on addressing the issue with Mistique Music.

I keep saying this, but people blame us for not paying them as much in some situations, but they don't get their author right due to no subscription to the local company. There is nothing we can do, as we MUST dissociate publishing/author rights and sales income according to the european laws.

If you're fine with Mistique... that's just great for you and for them. Mistique is a valuable bunch of enthusiasts and I've worked a lot with them in the last few months, and I'll keep doing it as they need a lot of help.

Now another thing, calling a c*nt a guy a like me who happens to distribute your stuff (among others) on several portals (beatport among others), trying to fix the MESS of the other distributors with your label, trying to help your Mistique mates getting better income (which apparently works) by making decisions, changing things that affect their sales, playing your stuff every now and then into his radio shows and gigs everywhere... Well this is what I'd call unfair. No matter what, I'll keep playing and supporting you anyway. I know I wasn't in the line of fire. But your posts result only in collateral damage, in other words, the artist here, having to pay for that, because he happens to run Banshee Worx too.

I wouldn't even mind commenting if you were only unsatisfied with our services, we had so many, but fact is that you've posted wrong information on a public forum, that needed correction.

I'll let the guys at my other partner labels have a read at your post here too as you see us not even mad, but only sad with this situation. Today we provide other labels with our services, labels I see your name on too. You are a good artist for sure, but business wise, it's very clear to me that you need a lot more guidance. By asking me for more advice by e-mail/skype whatever you would have had this at no extra charge at all and avoid yourself the waste of energy posting negativity.

I'll contact Levan about this, but no worries, positively.

To finish things off, keep in mind that this digital distribution thing barely generates income so far for me, so I'm not getting rich on anyone here. Let's hope it's clear enough.

Back on topic,

I saw someone unhappy with a 35% royalty generating less income that expected. Whatever the label is: it might be normal if your track/remix was part of a compilation with a lower street price. your contract says 35% on NET income. Example: if the compilation of 20 sold 500 bundles at 4.99. You get

500x 4.99/20 MINUS portal percentage (30%) and you effectively get 35% of that. That is normal. In this case: 6 cents.

Be at least happy that the label don't cross license between two sister companies in order to pay 50% less royalty on each sale, and believe it or not, I saw it happen many many times the last few years, and no one did even complain here.

Anyone having business trouble or questions can come to me anytime and I'll reply. Keep in mind that I have no access to your sales figures though.

If you want my skype here it is: laurentveronnez in a single word.

May I remind you that if I run a label, I get the same income as you guys do? Even big guns don't get much more. Some think they do but all in all...

I stated it was probably the wrong figure. sorry if it was half that. That wasnt the issue though. This was my first legit remix and I asked nicely for information.

get back to me instead, and I'll have this exchange solved.

I take this very seriously, but not personally at all, that's why you see me really positive in solving your problem.

Everyone makes mistakes. All I do is give a piece of my soul to labels to release, and I wouldnt give it to anyone else other than mistique, because I know they are nice people and I trust them.

For the record, Bonzai did apologize to me, they are not super heartless. Just made a mistake, as I did by posting this shit. Yes im that stupid.

You see, small labels that make nothing such as the label im bashing are working so hard to not only survive, but grow. This is counter-productive as fuck. I should know better.

They are not the the cunts in the big picture at the least, Sure they made a mistake and crushed my soul and a fucked up time. Its not really a big deal as im making it out to be. Times are tough.

whatever happens, happens. I'll still be making music and trying to reach people.

fuck that man,

apology or not, to be treated like that shows how fucking incompetent and idiotic these people are. Even the fucking mafia has a little more caprice than this fuck. But i'm pretty sure the guy running label, was high of his tits when replying. IT just sucks you don't live in the same city. I would take him to court just so he has to spend money he would rather spend on coke.

This is why EDM producers don't make money, If this is a large label, imagine the fucking clowns running the medium size ones. Just a big cluster fuck of morons.

quote:

Originally posted by MSZ Just made a mistake, as I did by posting this shit. Yes im that stupid.

No. Labels need to be accountable for their actions like every other business in the universe. I fail to see what you did wrong here by posting a review of this service in a public forum, every other business has to go through it. Imagine if the local restaurant owner saw you come in and say "oh great, here's another fatass that wants pancakes"

quote:

You see, small labels that make nothing such as the label im bashing are working so hard to not only survive, but grow. This is counter-productive as fuck. I should know better.

Did they threten to sue you or something? Why are you apologizing? It's like saying sorry you broke the guys hand that hit you in the face. Counter-productive I'd say would be hiring people who don't know how the fuck to act in a professional setting. In the real world you do something like that you get fired. I wonder why they are struggling to survive.

And I'm sure they do make money

I think what MSZ said is fine; if that was a copy and paste of a conversation, then it's absolutely right that it be public. If the label has a problem with that then clearly they shouldn't send responses like that to perfectly reasonable and polite questions from producers that they have released.

It's like when people complain about their sex tapes being leaked. It was you sucking cock in front of that camera. There's an easy way to make sure no one sees that video; don't suck cock on film (Richie).

I think the apology from MSZ came as it's clearly obvious that Laurent takes this shit very seriously, and it's pretty easy to understand (especially for those of us who know him through TA) that he's one of the nicest guys in the industry, not to mention one of the few with real integrity, and therefore someone else's off the cuff/brainfart/bad day email response shouldn't taint the label as a whole or the good people that work there, like Laurent.

Meriter is right; you are accountable for your actions. If I spoke like that to any of my employees when they ask for their paycheck, I'd be in court in a heartbeat.

i will suck cock just because it isn't ok. That is how fucking rock and roll i am. A room full of models, female models, and i will suck a cock. And that is why i'm unforgettable. Because i can still suck a cock and nobody is wondering, shit he is gay, no. they are thinking, that guy gets so much labia that he opted to suck a cock when he had his choice of all those models. My mind is just operating on a different level.

quote:

Originally posted by Lolo get back to me instead, and I'll have this exchange solved. I take this very seriously, but not personally at all, that's why you see me really positive in solving your problem.

Hey lolo, thats very nice feedback. I would LOVE to see this kind of guy from Armada here in the forums

I remixed a tune, it got to the Armada'sArmin year mix - never seen a dime. That CANNOT be right as Armin is making a fortune.
Do you know where/who I could turn to? Vast Vision � Ellipse (Miikka Leinonen Mix)

In this business, if they can take your money, they will, dont forget about that. Vast Vision guys told me they didnt get a dime from that compilation - either they are stupid or someone is taking the money.

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney fuck that man, apology or not, to be treated like that shows how fucking incompetent and idiotic these people are.

THIS.

They did a "mistake" and you got payed after you posted it to forum. Of course it was "a mistake"..

quote:

Originally posted by MiikkaLeinonen I remixed a tune, it got to the Armada'sArmin year mix - never seen a dime. That CANNOT be right as Armin is making a fortune. Do you know where/who I could turn to? Vast Vision � Ellipse (Miikka Leinonen Mix) In this business, if they can take your money, they will, dont forget about that. Vast Vision guys told me they didnt get a dime from that compilation - either they are stupid or someone is taking the money.

That's fucking evil. It was sold on every digital download platform not to mention in high street retail outlets all over the world such as Barnes and noble in the USA, HMV in the UK and probably a ton of other places globally.

There's no way you should not have seen at least a couple of hundred from that. They can't fiddle the figures like with digital only downloads as there were physical CD sales to major retailers.

Ask them for sales figures and if they don't respond, threaten an audit.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN I think the apology from MSZ came as it's clearly obvious that Laurent takes this shit very seriously, and it's pretty easy to understand (especially for those of us who know him through TA) that he's one of the nicest guys in the industry, not to mention one of the few with real integrity, and therefore someone else's off the cuff/brainfart/bad day email response shouldn't taint the label as a whole or the good people that work there, like Laurent.

This is spot on, I've dealt with some assholes but he is not one of them, and im sure a lot of people are truly grateful for that. It was wrong of me to paint a picture of a whole label, it affects much more than on the surface.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN That's fucking evil. It was sold on every digital download platform not to mention in high street retail outlets all over the world such as Barnes and noble in the USA, HMV in the UK and probably a ton of other places globally. There's no way you should not have seen at least a couple of hundred from that. They can't fiddle the figures like with digital only downloads as there were physical CD sales to major retailers. Ask them for sales figures and if they don't respond, threaten an audit.

Well what can I do? I cannot compete Armada?

I would love to hear those artist what they got from their tracks.

You are not alone M, there is an artist here that did a EP for Armada, he didnt get a cent, It may even have a vinyl im not sure. Those tricky bastards have like a 15 page contract right?

By word of mouth I've heard the Armada statements are solid, sent out regularly and on-time. There's a sister company in the same office though (Cloud 9). Can't tell you many good things about them.

Last time I've talked about Armada contracts with some signed artists they weren't very positive either. Mostly due to the certain aspects of the default contract Armada provided at the time. Like signing over exlusive rights on all artist merchandise.

quote:

Originally posted by MSZ You are not alone M, there is an artist here that did a EP for Armada, he didnt get a cent, It may even have a vinyl im not sure. Those tricky bastards have like a 15 page contract right?

Thats interesting. It means biggest company in the industry doesnt pay for artist??

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney fuck that man, apology or not, to be treated like that shows how fucking incompetent and idiotic these people are. Even the fucking mafia has a little more caprice than this fuck. But i'm pretty sure the guy running label, was high of his tits when replying. IT just sucks you don't live in the same city. I would take him to court just so he has to spend money he would rather spend on coke. This is why EDM producers don't make money, If this is a large label, imagine the fucking clowns running the medium size ones. Just a big cluster fuck of morons.

Okay, I'm still hoping that there's a little bit good sense in each of us, that's why you see me reply again.

I won't comment here on what you said. I'm just going to add my 2 cents, and you will make conclusions the way you want... Our friend MSZ got sent FOUR royalty statements on time (and I have evidence here on my desktop and sent that to him today still), on 15-10-2010, on 13-04-2011, on 18-10-2011, and on 16-04-2012. So far, those royalty statements are still marked as unread, yet they still remain into his account into our artist baseware. The money remains available if it reaches the payable amount, he sends us his payment instructions if needed, problem solved. My colleague's intention wasn't hurting msz here, I had a check, it's an internal ironic message to the royalty dept. that got leaked when forwarding, which explain apologies afterwards. You know why this irony between us happens? Because we get hundreds of guys who never check their papers, who don't apply for publishing then never get author rights, others who close their e-mail addresses and don't let us know, not to speak about address changes, then we have those who never read their e-mail with a little bit attention until they rant about not getting their money... on TA forums. You can imagine the mess they create on their own, then blame us for it... That's the reality of the edm business today. They all blame us but when they have to face their own mistakes, nobody shows up. The same story repeats over and over again.

Now to finish things off, I had a conversation with msz this morning. He admitted himself he's not that good with paperwork. Call my colleagues the way you want, fact is that their paperwork, their business state of affairs, and their annual balance are all clean and transparent. This ranting on the label I co-own and run today isn't very clean at all and based on incorrect or incomplete information. If you line up all posts about this, you can make your conclusions for yourself. I'm in peace with ourselves, we did what we had to and even more. And nope, I'm not even mad at msz or anyone else here. and I always stand up for constructive and positive discussion.

Trust me, i could tell you stories that would make your squabbles seam so fucking trite. Would give you a new sense of the word getting fucked in the ass. The point is that not even these guys would be dumb enough to send an email like that. But this label did. And that is something you can't take back. It shows incompetency, it shows an utter fuck you mentality to the people you fuck over daily, and don't lie and say you don't, because you do. Ever label does and if you don't , then you need new management. But the difference between say , an idiot that sends this sort of email, and the asshole that fucks you over but maintains a working relationship is that the guy doing it behind your back is probably competent enough to make people money. This is just insult to injury.

nope. there is nothing you could say that would change my opinion about the person that sent that email. It is inexcusable. And an apology 2 years after the fact to me is fucking lip service. When you are fucking people over , treating people like shit and your motive isn't money, that is just fucked up. And that is why i find this particular outburst just vile.

Like you guys are just dicks because you are dicks. I mean we all know why you people act like dicks. You stopped making music people cared about, and that addiction is now pretty fucking hard to support. EDM label owners are all drug snorting twats that still dress like they are in their 20s. This was a generalization. But i think you will find it pretty universal. Show me someone running an EDM label that isn't retarded and sporting a nasty coke habit and i will show you my junk.

Eelke Kleijn. Now show your junk and make MSZ's life perfect with your perfectty shaven masculinity.

Somehow I doubt anything we will mention would be considered valid.

Oh and online business 101: never try and sort out heated discussions through public media. Reach out publically to let the accusing party contact your company. Form theron always go for the personal approach. Email, phone, inviting him to the office, whatever.

It is hard to stand and watch your company (heart, soul, pride and joy) being bashed though, especially without defending yourself.

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