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-- Satan lives in Iraq, lets bomb them!!
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hmm..

no time to post but, just a simple question.

can i be taken on a tour of all the US weapons facilities? how about the whitehouse? can i go right into presidents bush's bedroom, and check under the bed, just to make sure he hasn't got a nuke tucked in there?

I agree with inspections. I agree that it's important we disarm iraq, and ALL countries. I am a realist as well, but, an optimistic one.

However, invading into his personal HOME is goin a little far. and yes, i have seen in the dossier the size of the "palace" area, with buckingham palace superimposed for exemplary purposes. I agree, that is a little much.

I suppose.. if it were up to me, i would tell saddamn he can have one presidential palace, where he resides, and all others woudl be searched.

does that sound like a reasonable comprimise to you?

Also, i wasn't aware you were in israel izzy. We should talk more indepth about this, i could learn a lot from you it seems.

peace.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnSmith hmm.. no time to post but, just a simple question. can i be taken on a tour of all the US weapons facilities? how about the whitehouse? can i go right into presidents bush's bedroom, and check under the bed, just to make sure he hasn't got a nuke tucked in there? However, invading into his personal HOME is goin a little far. and yes, i have seen in the dossier the size of the "palace" area, with buckingham palace superimposed for exemplary purposes. I agree, that is a little much.

ya i also read the dossier, no i dont expect the inspectors to go into the bedrooms living rooms and such, i mean come on lets talk for real, just as you said its kinda hard to hide tons of weapons and Chem/Bio/Nuc material under your bed. thats reasonable but i mean every place that could harbour factories or stock piles of those things should be searched, why not? of course no one is going to inspect US of weapons same as no one is going to inspect Germany or UK or India. for one they already admit they have them (iraq still insists it is free of WOMB, ya right) the reason iraq is being searched is becuase of its previous history of use of those weapons, becuase we cant trust saddam with them in his hands/power.

quote:

I agree with inspections. I agree that it's important we disarm iraq, and ALL countries.

agian difference of opinoin, i dont think there will ever be a point where ALL countries we will be free of those weapons, there will always be those seeking to use them to attain power or political gains. for that matter i am for some countries, who stand for what i belive in, to have them in order deter, defend and protect everyone else from that threat.

quote:

I suppose.. if it were up to me, i would tell saddamn he can have one presidential palace, where he resides, and all others woudl be searched. does that sound like a reasonable comprimise to you?

sounds like a deal to me! if only that could take place, reason being that if he were to have stuff in the other palaces, spy satelites and survalience aircraft would see movement of those stuff coming out to other hiding places (or see them entering to the designated place).

quote:

Also, i wasn't aware you were in israel izzy. We should talk more indepth about this, i could learn a lot from you it seems. peace.

well im not in it now, im a junior studying at a university here in texas. im an israeli citizen (only citizenship i hold, unfortunately) lived there for over half of my life. actually get this, one (there are a few others) of the reasons im in the US now is that i decided to draft dodge the obligatory military service we citizens have to serve (see theres more to me then meets the eye) its a long story though... we could talk more indepth about it if you want, to bad i cant invite you over for a strong cup of turkish coffee.

yeah.. it's too bad..

and yeah by "were" i meant, past tense, i see you are in texas now. i would like to talk more with you though, it might be worht the cost of a long distance phone call or something..

anyway.. as for WOMD possibly being allowed in the hands of some people.. well, that's definitely a debatable point.

in an ideal world, we'd all work things out by talking. and if not talking, then maybe we'd beat each other up. failing that maybe some guns or bombs. i think that's as far as it should go though, and that all nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons should be removed from this planet. ship em into the sun or something, i don't know..

of course.. that is a very idealistic notion, and not likely to happen. and even if it did, now that we have opened pandora's box, i'm sure someone would try to make some more..

wow!
what a thread!
umm ok here goes

I think I agree more with JohnSmith and Renegade. A couple of things first though. I live in Australia, a Western country. Our Prime Minister John Howard supports America in whatever it wants to do it would seem, which I don't necessarily agree with. We have what we call 'tall poppy syndrome' where people seem envious of sucess and try to bring people down, 'cutting the poppies' I suppose you could say. What I mean by this is that sometimes I am thinking 'oh great more america crap'. This is not really 'anti-america', its more 'anti-whatever country is in the same position as america'. We all know USA is a large sucessfull country with powerful military and influence, I think that a lot of people get fed up with seeing or hearing about America because of what America is, I mean if it was another country we would be 'anti-them' in a way. I hope that made sense!

Like a couple of people said it I think America wants to attack Iraq because they are a threat to the USA national security. But why? How are they a threat? Do they have the capability to invade America? I guess America is worried about Iraq having nuclear weapons? But many other nations do also and seem to be more volatile and hostile at the moment. Look at Pakistan and India. I think they both have nuclear weapons, and there is active fighting between the two of them! In Kashmir I think at least. If not to America then aren't these nations threatening the national security of everyone living around them??? Perhaps the 'threat of national security' is influenced I think because America has fought with Iraq in the past.

People say "look at what Hussein does to his own people" What does he do? I'm sorry I don't know much about it but one thing I have read is that many people are poor because there are trade sanctions? ie Countries like America won't sell them food or something?
About chemical weapons too, what happened in WW1? Didn't the allies use poison gas in the war too? When did Hussein use these weapons on his own people? And what does his own people mean? Did he just drop a chemical weapon on any old civilian complex or perhaps was it used against his enemies or soemthing?

America says Iraq is a threat because they have Weapons Of Mass Destruction. But America has these too! Why isn't it a threat to Iraq that America has WOMD? Or any other nation? I guess like my dad says, because we are in the west "Iraq is the bad guys! They're not allowed to have them hehe"

I mean for all I know Australia could decide that America having aircraft carriers and nuclear weapons is a threat to our national security, and we will be able to attack them. Pfft of course thats rediculous you say. Well why? Thats exactly what it looks like to me. America doesnt like Iraq having these weapons. They say its a threat and they think they should be allowed to attack them.

America also wants support to do this from other countries like UK and Australia. They could say hey we have helped you in the past you owe us. Well what happened in the past? The world was at war and a nation attacked us, we requested the help of allies at the time. If Iraq launched an attack on USA and USA requested help of Australia then I would be for that in some ways. I am not for Australia sending its best soldiers (SAS) to a country that really hasn't done much in the last few years other than annoy George Bush by not doing what he wants. I guess this all comes down to: No War on Iraq!
OMG IM A HIPPY!!!!!!!

Also if you want us to send our soldiers to help you which we have in Afghanistan then you should fucking take our steel and farm products!

From Izzy:

quote:

those are not quotes directly taken from the koran, those are straight up from grammar books and such. furthermore, it is widely known that the hammas (a recognized terror group both by the US and UN) finances educational institustions in palestine for kids of all ages.

I think you didn't get my point... those phrases are in the Coran, maybe not word by word, but its in there.

Classic post by Renegade!

now to the thing that Osama is practically dead. How the heck do you know that? Because GW didnt find him? Because he was not seen on TV anymore? I for one, think that Osama is not dead, there are many reports that al-qaida fighrers were able to flee to other place like pakistan. how not osama? I dont know, if he was really dead, I think al-qaida would have told us that al�ready and made him some sort of a martyr! and start the holy war...now I think he is sitting behind some rocks ou there in another country, planning another attack and grinning about the stupidity of GW. in Afghanistan there was a cell, how do you know there isnt any other al-qaida cells where he could hide, like in Jemen the supposed new headquarter of al-qaida?

Finish you business before you start a new one!

Oh I just saw "Siege", a late 90s movie with bruce and denzel, I really hope it will not happen what i saw in this movie...

quote:

i can tell you straight up that the israeli education system does NOT teach hatered.

What a lie. The state of Israel is based on racism. Racism = Hatred.

The premise of the state of Israel is a home for the JEWISH people, not any people- JEWISH people. Any person with Jewish parents, even if they have no connection to the land of Israel itself can become an Israeli citizen.

Yet heres the laugh, any palestinian who was driven out of their home in 1948 has no right of return. They arent called refugees for nothing. They were driven out of their land by force. THis is a fact. Those that deny the truth of what actually happened to the Arabs are applying the same logic as the neo Nazis who deny there was a holocaust.

In all the negotiations between the Arabs and Israelis the one thing that was never on the cards, a right of return for the displaced peoples of 1948. And why might that be? Because to accept a right of return of the palestinians is to accept that a fundamental crime was committed against the arabs in the name of Zionism.

No right of return. No compensation for the land stolen. No even a fucking apology.

And then people on this board have the audacity to condemn palestinians for being indoctrinated into believing that martydom is glorious.

If my grandfathers land was stolen from me, I would make damn sure that I would do WHATEVER it takes to get the land back, and if I couldnt do it, I would make sure my children were brought up to NEVER FORGIVE AND TO NEVER FORGET.

.

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quote:

Originally posted by guetag The One And Only Truth mms://server5.castup.net/server12/19283694.wmv?s=72BD589B3EED11D6B9CD000629396D69

thats fucking bullshit, pure racist propaganda. I actually cannot believe you posted that

.

quote:

Originally posted by guetag believe baby believe the truth hurts!!!!!!!!!!!

thats blatantly not the truth!!, and if believe Palestinian kids actually say that, you've got some serious mental issues you need to sort out...
I still can't believe your stupid enough to post such bullshit

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quote:

Originally posted by guetag ohh really? i know it's hard 2 believe... but it's not fake.. just don't tell me that the terror against us is fake... see this again ..this is real....still hard for u to believe that this is the education that they get?! maybe u got serious mental issues

I'm not saying the terror against you is fake, I'm telling u most of that video is fake.
I've had enough with this thread, I'm not even gonna bother reading it anymore, especially with retards like you posting that kinds of propaganda bullshit
good day

.

quote:

Originally posted by guetag running away from the truth is always easy.. it's easy to say that this video is fake.. in your tv u always see us as the bad guys and now that u see somthing else u can't believe it.. have a good day..and keep on with your illusions

I believe that we (the Western countries) always supported Isra�l, we gave you a country to live in and because of the governments policy you have a war with the Palestinians.

I believe that there must be a reason that the Middle-East hates Isra�l and supports the Palestinians, and it is not because America supports Isra�l...

and that movie is just plain dumb

.

I'm getting sick of pplz like you bilk that allways turn everything to an anti israel theard


The only reason we are in this shit is because all you dumb that Europeans that thinks everything is fine...

All you hyppocrits thinks that we are bad

We we do is nothing compre to what you have done in wars....you killed so meny pplz but in the streets and nobody said any word

But now when everything is great you don't want war cuz it will disturd you !!!
We try not to harm but we can't help it cuz you hyppocrits just keep on flaming us

So what I think is when you get this shit it will be diffrent
If it was in europe the palestinians were already gone

This could end by now if you were all gone but it aint

I think you should shut up and come here
I want you to feel how hard is to loss you son in a bombing!!!1
I want to to feel how hard is ve flamed after that!

I know that bush is doing a good move
He will destory the teror and then
You will shat up

So chill plz and don't flame us! all you Anti-Semi

quote:

Originally posted by guetag running away from the truth is always easy.. it's easy to say that this video is fake.. in your tv u always see us as the bad guys and now that u see somthing else u can't believe it.. have a good day..and keep on with your illusions

I'm not running away from the 'truth', I just don't see can't see how I can have a proper discussion with a narrow minded individual such as yourself, especially one who believes everything he sees and reads.
As Blik said Israel have always been portrayed as the good guys in Western TV, up until Jenin anyway, I think that was the turning point, and I think a lot of people were surprised to hear this wasn't the first time something of this magnitude had happened, it's just we only get the bad things the palestinian things do over here, and very little of the atrocities the Israeli government carry out.
I've based my "illusions" on a number of different things, having an Israeli teacher who has experienced the Israeli Army, was in Israel in 1981 (I think, might have been 82 or 83, it was a long story) when the Israeli Army bombed a refugee camp for 3 days killing a horrendous amount of people.
So don't give me shit about my illusions, the only person with illusions is you

Blik what you are saying is pretty interesting...
Europe Countries have always supported Israel?
No, the minority of them did, like Denmark,
But I recall Germany, Austria, Belgium, Netherlands, Poland and more European countries that gave up the jewes to the nazis in order for them to be destroyed off this planet.
Europe countires did not gave Israel land to live in, if anything they prevented it from happening, and only the UK that sent the Balfoor Statement is the one that helped.

Now Az, I Can see why you think that this film is a propaganda piece of shit.
Try to imagin a certain situation, you go with a couple of friends to catch your favorite DJ on a show in a night club, you have a few beers, dance with some chicks, have a great time, all of a sudden a bomb explodes, dead people everywhere, limbs and gibbs in the floor.
Quite horrifying aint it?
Sadly, We have to undergo this fear experience every time we go out to a club, a bar or even just to take the buss downtown.
Worst than that, imagin that you are in your own home, and a palestinian terrorist walks in, and shoots your whole family in front of your eyes.
Such incidents have happaned over and over again.
So, this film may be shocking, but its the truth!
They are being tought from a young age how to be a Shahid which means a soldier, only that their definition for soldier is a bombing terrorist.
This film describes exactly the feeling we expereince here every day.
And while you will stay at home and wait for the next Tiesto production, guys from the TA Israel Forum will be standing with their M16, defending the only place we got left.

.

Wow, look what happened while i slept tonight.

I woke up and saw this post from guetag. first, i'll say your right. I don't know. I'm not there. I'm eager to hear from people who are. thanks for posting.

As for israelis being taught to hate, maybe you misunderstood me. I didn't neccesarily mean in schools, or in the textbooks. It might not be so structured as that. But, the very act of palestinian suicide bombings is teaching israelis to hate! and not without good reason either. If someone came to my country, and blew up my family, i would hate them too, no matter what country they were, or what religion they practiced.

also, the israeli and western media is just as guilty of anti-palestinian propaganda as the palestinians are of anti-israel propaganada, as evidenced by the very video you posted.

speaking of the video, i did watch it, and felt the tears well up in my eyes several times. I'm not sure if it's "lies" as Az said. probably not all outright lies, but, at leased biased and distorted versions of the truth. Unfortunately, i can't speak arabic, and i don't know what those kids are really saying. anyway, it's a propaganda video, not an objective truth video.

it is horribe the situation there, i have deep empathy for people in the situation, both palestinian and israeli. Nobody should wake up wondering whether they are going to die that day.

However. It is not as one sided as this video make it appear. The evil here is not palestinian, nor israeli. It is BOTH. Both sides are encouraging it, and continuing to kill each other.

This is a tough problem, and i am not even going to suggest that i, sitting here in canada, could ever think of a solution that would work.

But, i think a step forward is tolerance. There is no "One and Only Truth" that is exactly the attitude that started this! you have to let people figure it out themselves what is right. and when you bomb them to try and convince, it never helps. they never pick up their dead family members and think "well, they were wrong, i will take the opinions of my neighbours now" No, they pick up a gun and say i will kill my neighbours now. and then the cycle repeats. and so it has since the biblical times..

I don't know what can be done, i just know the situation is horrible over there..

I sponsor a 14 year old boy in palestine. Everyday i wonder about him. Is he out there being shot at by israeli soldiers? or is he perhaps strapping on a suicide bomb this morning? I don't know. I send my pathetic $30 a month to him, because it's the only thing I CAN do from canada.

quote:

Originally posted by guetag u saw what US did in Afghanistan? one month and it's all over ther kill innocent civlians ..but no one said anything.. why? because they the strongest in the world?

eh, i will tell you right now, there is massive public outcry about the civillian deaths in afghanistan. maybe you don't hear about it, because the west filters the media so effectively, but there have been massive protests against that war.

I was so moved, i made a website dedicated to stopping it, and i belong to an antiwar coalition in my area. Little good it did then, the americans were just too mad to not attack, but, now, the coalition is mobilizing against the war on iraq, and we actually have a chance of stopping it.

please do me the courtesy of checking out my site, i watched your video. http://www27.brinkster.com/antiwar/

Your post has some strong points
but also some very not true ones.
First of all, the media over here, which means, newspapers, TV, radio and internet, everything is in favour of the palestinians, and I'm not kidding.
You should see some of the things people from the "Left" are trying to do in order to get peace with the palestinians, and I commend them for that, unfortunatlly they dont understand they ae dealing with murderers.
Anyway, youre right, both sides are fighting each other, one thing though, ever heard of conventional fighting?
you know, soldiers against soldiers, not Terrorist against 50 innocent people.
They are "Fighting" as you say by killing innocent people with bombs that shatter nails and bullets in the moment of explosion, causing it to increase the power and danger of the explosion by far.
Now, I'll have you know that Israeli soldiers, never, but never shoots Palestinian kids with real bullets, only rubber bullets, and they dont even aim, its just to scare them away.
I Wanna see you facing 40 kids, getting a rain of rocks into your face and not getting mad.
And those so called innocent Palestinan kids as you say, well did you know that on a routine patrol, 5 soldiers entered a house which they had information about, regarding a well known wanted terrorist, they went in and saw a little boy, of course they spared him, but that little boy was hiding that terrorist in the next room, and that terrorist killed all 5 soldiers becuase they acted like human beings and spared the life of a little boy.
Not so simple now huh?

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