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-- Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11?
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Originally posted by shaolin_Z LOL, what do you mean? Not everyone in a secret order is evil you know, although they are pretty deluded as to what their "fraternal brotherhood" is all about. One of the nicest guys I know is a gnostic hedonist in the Golden Dawn.

You should tell him he doesn't know what the hell he is doing if he is in a antiquated system like the Golden Dawn.


We've talked about this at length before. I'm fairly well versed in almost every form of western mysticism and the Golden Dawn. Although I don't consider them 'evil' as I'm into things that they would probably call 'evil' I just happen to believe that they are no longer relevant.

If you want I can elaborate upon this further however I cannot continue to do so in such a public manner so PM me if you want.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Even my aquaintances in the OTO, Golden Dawn, and the handful of masons I know admit 9-11 was an inside job. LOL, you guys are fucking retarded.

i want what youre smoking shaolin!

Have you guys seen this movie called ZEITGEIST? I watched it a few days ago,lots of interesting points,but most of them have been told by many others in the past.I liked the part 3 of the movie myself the most.

Anyways here is the link:
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer Have you guys seen this movie called ZEITGEIST? I watched it a few days ago,lots of interesting points,but most of them have been told by many others in the past.I liked the part 3 of the movie myself the most. Anyways here is the link: [[ LINK REMOVED ]]

i read the synopsis a week or two ago. full of the repetitive fallacies that characterise the "truth" movement.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i want what youre smoking shaolin!

CIA imported crack!

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i read the synopsis a week or two ago. full of the repetitive fallacies that characterise the "truth" movement.

When/if you get the chance watch the part 3 of the movie,I thought it was very informative.It definetly makes you look at the whole idea of a war in a different way which is very cool.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN yes i have. and yes, it is interesting. but something like this cannot stand up to the counter evidence. you know, bodies, wreckage, the destroyed lightposts on the approach vector, the hundreds of witnesses that saw the plane crash etc. or the very same blackbox they got from the pentagon has the accuracy of the blackbox been verified? i dont know enough about blackboxes and how accurate they are to make a judgement. i am however pretty good at plain old reading, and hundreds of witnesses cannot be wrong to such a degree. especially those that witnessed the flight passing within metres of their car

I didn't want to debate 911 in that thread

Anyways,

The quality of data should not be a matter of concern. Black boxes are meant to withstand heavy crashes like these. The government simulations were reconstructed from the same data. The question is, whether the members of this organization were qualified enough to read the flight data recorder. On the surface atleast, it looks like they may have done a good job. The government should respond and counter their claims with sound technical analysis. That is the only way to counter conspiracy theories : You respond to any fresh claim of conspiracy. I really don't care what people have seen and reported. People have seen UFOs and they will swear by it. I don't really know what to say about the derbies and stuff because half of the people claim to have seen them and the other half claims not to have seen much.

Hard engineering analysis > Witness testimonies.

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Originally posted by Omega_M I didn't want to debate 911 in that thread Anyways, The quality of data should not be a matter of concern. Black boxes are meant to withstand heavy crashes like these. The government simulations were reconstructed from the same data. The question is, whether the members of this organization were qualified enough to read the flight data recorder. On the surface atleast, it looks like they may have done a good job. The government should respond and counter their claims with sound technical analysis. That is the only way to counter conspiracy theories : You respond to any fresh claim of conspiracy. I really don't care what people have seen and reported. People have seen UFOs and they will swear by it. I don't really know what to say about the derbies and stuff because half of the people claim to have seen them and the other half claims not to have seen much.

actually, there really is NO way to combat conspiracies. this is because they are born and thrive with arguments from doubt- which are pretty hard to undermine. basically because there will always be doubt in lots of situations, especially those that engender panic and misinformation on a day like sept 2001, those that want to can point at all sorts of things that cannot be explained. but not explaining does not equal conspiracy.

i have yet to see an explanation for the data recording evidence that explains the supposed anomalies. so i cant really make my own assessment yet. but i will point out that this particular black box coincidentally ends at the same time the plane didn't hit the pentagon. and was found in the debris at the pentagon. instead of JUST pointing at the discrepancies regarding the black box, id like to see a valid reason for this as well

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Hard engineering analysis > Witness testimonies.

yes and no. people are familiar with passenger airlines. people are familiar with the pentagon. hundreds of people saw the passenger airline hit the pentagon. im willing to trust the judgement of hundreds of people in a situation where your average person can be expected to recognise the core facts.

this example is a multitude of difference from those witnesses that heard "explosions" around the WTCs (for obvious reasons).

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN yes and no. people are familiar with passenger airlines. people are familiar with the pentagon. hundreds of people saw the passenger airline hit the pentagon. im willing to trust the judgement of hundreds of people in a situation where your average person can be expected to recognise the core facts.

If thats the case then why cant the government provide us will all the security videos from the area from the day that pentagon got hit? I mean after all many people saw the plane crashing right?so why cant they share the videos with everyone?

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer If thats the case then why cant the government provide us will all the security videos from the area from the day that pentagon got hit? I mean after all many people saw the plane crashing right?so why cant they share the videos with everyone?

i keep asking this question: can you provide me with evidence that the government does actually possess any footage of the plane hitting? people seem to make this assumption, but i am yet to see anything approaching fact that they do.

in any case, instead of arguing from a position of doubt, the CTers have much much bigger problems! like what happened to the plane, passengers, where the debris came from etc. id start there before making questionable assumptions about video footage

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i keep asking this question: can you provide me with evidence that the government does actually possess any footage of the plane hitting? people seem to make this assumption, but i am yet to see anything approaching fact that they do.

If they dont posses these footages then who has them? or are you sayind that those footages dont even exist to begin with?

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in any case, instead of arguing from a position of doubt, the CTers have much much bigger problems! like what happened to the plane, passengers, where the debris came from etc. id start there before making questionable assumptions about video footage

Try watching that documantry movie that I posted here the other day.Iam not saying they are right or wrong but they do have a interesting arguments on some of the issues that you mentioned.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer If they dont posses these footages then who has them? or are you sayind that those footages dont even exist to begin with?

precisely. i have not seen an iota of evidence to suggest there is any more footage. and i have asked those in this thread to provide me with something and im still waiting...

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer Try watching that documantry movie that I posted here the other day.Iam not saying they are right or wrong but they do have a interesting arguments on some of the issues that you mentioned.

sorry mate, but after reading the synopsis im just not interested. how can i take anything in it seriously when it advertises itself with known fallacies?

I think the minnesota bridge collapse can hopefully shed some common sense on to some of you as to the nature of strucutral failure. While the NTSB hasnt begun their forensic analysis yet, my first hunch is that the structure lost stability due to the deck rehabilitation on the outer lanes of the freeway. Anyway, point being, that structure fell at "near freefall speeds" (i thought i should quote some of your rhetoric) and without any warning. Just goes to show you that because you have never seen it on tv before doesnt mean it cant happen.

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Originally posted by colonelcrisp I think the minnesota bridge collapse can hopefully shed some common sense on to some of you as to the nature of strucutral failure. While the NTSB hasnt begun their forensic analysis yet, my first hunch is that the structure lost stability due to the deck rehabilitation on the outer lanes of the freeway. Anyway, point being, that structure fell at "near freefall speeds" (i thought i should quote some of your rhetoric) and without any warning. Just goes to show you that because you have never seen it on tv before doesnt mean it cant happen.

And dont forget, the bridge was made of many floors and the cement was pulverized to dust when the bridge collapsed.

Secondly, its not a Minnesota bridge, but in Mississippi. Third of all, there was construction work going on that bridge just before it collapsed ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai.../wbridge202.xml

The bridge was undergoing "minor" repairs at the time of the tragedy, officials said. Early reports suggested construction workers were using a jackhammer before the collapse.

Plus how can you compare a collapse of a bridge to a collapse of a building like the WTC complex? Not a good comparison, lacks logic, irrelevant, quite silly ...

Look, the cement is pulverized ... OMG:

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Originally posted by Magnetonium [COLOR=FF7F50] Secondly, its not a Minnesota bridge, but in Mississippi. [

Actually it was a bridge in Minnesota that ran across the Mississippi River.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Secondly, its not a Minnesota bridge, but in Mississippi.

you got a few things mixed up there, m8

1: It was in minnesota

2: The bridge was undergoing deck rehabilitation..... not structural rehabilitiation meaning the jack hammer the concrete out of small sectoins of the deck to repair corroded rebar and replace the surface treatment (asphalt). a jackhammer will do nothing to structural steel. infact a hoeram wont do much to structural steel.

3: the bridge only fell 60 ft and as you can see from your own photo, a section of the deck was pulverized.

4: The point i was trying to make was not that this bridge collapse is at all similar to the WTC, but that small changes in a structure can cause catastrophic results.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Secondly, its not a Minnesota bridge, but in Mississippi. Third of all, there was construction work going on that bridge just before it collapsed ... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai.../wbridge202.xml The bridge was undergoing "minor" repairs at the time of the tragedy, officials said. Early reports suggested construction workers were using a jackhammer before the collapse. Plus how can you compare a collapse of a bridge to a collapse of a building like the WTC complex? Not a good comparison, lacks logic, irrelevant, quite silly ... Look, the cement is pulverized ... OMG:

there is a video if you guys haven't seen it already.



A much better video of the damage

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer Have you guys seen this movie called ZEITGEIST? I watched it a few days ago,lots of interesting points,but most of them have been told by many others in the past.I liked the part 3 of the movie myself the most. Anyways here is the link: [[ LINK REMOVED ]]

Thanks for the link, I just finished watching part one that covers astrotheology, but I'm already quite familiar with astrotheology and astrothelogical elements paralleled in religion; Christianity comes to mind at once of course. Although I'm kind of confused about the transition from the age of pices to the age of aquarius and how all that fits in with the Mayan calander. Time to hit those astology books lol. Meanwhile, I'm going to finish watshing the rest of Zietgeist and laugh my ass off at all the idiots in this thread lol.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i keep asking this question: can you provide me with evidence that the government does actually possess any footage of the plane hitting? people seem to make this assumption, but i am yet to see anything approaching fact that they do. in any case, instead of arguing from a position of doubt, the CTers have much much bigger problems! like what happened to the plane, passengers, where the debris came from etc. id start there before making questionable assumptions about video footage

Yesssssssssss...

The government should be given the benefit of the doubt, because their technology and manpower is feeble, and they only care about the benefit of the American people.

LOL ... MIssissippi ... Minnesota ... fuck. Too bad a state has to be named after a river. Anyhow, on the photos and on the video links, you can clearly see that most of the concrete is still intact, and not pulverized to dust, like WTC was. Secondly, if there was no construction done on the bridge, and hopefully the investigation can shed a light on that, the bridge probably would have not collapsed. Third, the collapse of a bridge has very little in common to the collapse of a large building, its like comparing apples to oranges again ...

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Thanks for the link, I just finished watching part one that covers astrotheology, but I'm already quite familiar with astrotheology and astrothelogical elements paralleled in religion; Christianity comes to mind at once of course. Although I'm kind of confused about the transition from the age of pices to the age of aquarius and how all that fits in with the Mayan calander. Time to hit those astology books lol. Meanwhile, I'm going to finish watshing the rest of Zietgeist and laugh my ass off at all the idiots in this thread lol.

I saw the movie Zeitgeist couple times already some time ago though a friend who bought it, but it's boring up until the last third of it (nothing new). The religion and the conspiracies parts have been alrready covered in detail in many other videos/movies I've seen. However, the last third of the movie, where everything was brilliantly put together, where the media and television was bashed, wow, that was good. Plus great selection of clips as well. Carl Sagan's one was good timing.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I saw the movie Zeitgeist couple times already some time ago though a friend who bought it, but it's boring up until the last third of it (nothing new). The religion and the conspiracies parts have been alrready covered in detail in many other videos/movies I've seen. However, the last third of the movie, where everything was brilliantly put together, where the media and television was bashed, wow, that was good. Plus great selection of clips as well. Carl Sagan's one was good timing.

Yeah, there wasn't new really in it at all that I'm not already familiar with, but it's pretty well put together.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Plus how can you compare a collapse of a bridge to a collapse of a building like the WTC complex? Not a good comparison, lacks logic, irrelevant, quite silly ...

ha- says the guy whose CT buddies compare the WTCs to the empire state or other irrelevant buildings!

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