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- Political Discussion / Debate
-- Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11?
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Obviously, I don't expect a decent response addressing any of the key points in the material above.
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| Originally posted by colonelcrisp honestly i think it is fantastic that you all can do so much research about these things. however, what i can't stand is how so many of you can do 4 hours of internet sleuthing and think you understand building mechanics and structural engineering. Leave the forensic analysis of what happened to those who know what they are talking about. and frankly i think it would be great if the ASCE stepped in and did a full independent review of what happened and released their findings. The ASCE is probably the only credible orginization that would not only be qualified to perform such a study, but that the public and even you people would accept their findings. |
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| Originally posted by culorut 4 Hours of research? More like 5+ years on 9/11 alone. And the people who do know what they are talking about at the highest levels from every corner on this globe know 9/11 was an inside job. You seem to be on the wrong page regardless if you are an civil engineer or not shill. |
about the huge post up above......
blueprints un-availible.....
-- i call bullshit on this one
As-Built drawings are public record, and many other people managed to get their hands on them post 911... including CNN, Popular Mechanics, the ASCE among others, and even G. Hadjisophocleous P.Eng, M.Eng, Director Fire Safety Institute of Canada, whom i know personally and he specializes in fire safety analysis and design in structures. that being said. getting drawings from the city archives can be a frustrating process. i do it on a regular basis as most of my work ties in with existing structures and facilities, but its not impossible, and clearly other people had access to them
As for the whole steel getting removed too quickly issue
-- although i think it was a bad decision, i can understand their rationale for it, and no its not that they wanted to hide the astounding evidence of thermite from the tinfoil hat briggade. You have a city that just witnessed disaster, you are trying to exhume the bodies that remain in the rubble of two collapsed 100+ storry buildings. They just didnt have the space to store 300,000 tonnes of steel.... they wanted to get the ground zero cleanup started as soon as possible. That i can understand, however i do think that looking at the steel at point of impact could have allowed engineers to determine where the collapse started and what the failure mode is.
thats all i have time for right now..... work and meetings and what not......
LOL, what a nut!
That's what you sound like majority of the time in this thread btw PKC 
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| Originally posted by shaolin_Z LOL, what a nut! That's what you sound like majority of the time in this thread btw PKC |
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN what can i say? irrational "internet detectives" with illogical, selective scepticism make me angry. |
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN again colonel is thrashing the kids in here... |
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| Originally posted by shaolin_Z That's got to be the most disingenuos BS I've ever heard, no one get's mad because someone else is an idiot, especially on a consistant basis. If you do, you have to be an idiot yourself lol. |
i have pet peeves. one of those pet peeves is when someone categorically states something i know not to be true. it just gets under my skin.| quote: |
Which is why I largely started ignoring this thread, and this entire forum all together. |
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Crisp hasn't had a single argument that proved anything in here so far, other that "I call BS on that." Ok, fine, whatever lol. Explanations for supicious activity is nothing more than a bunch of lame excuses. |
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN looks like im an idiot then |
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i have pet peeves. one of those pet peeves is when someone categorically states something i know not to be true. it just gets under my skin. |
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN yeah, im almost there... |
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN nobody has "proved" anything. but he is a welcome voice of rationality from someone who is (relatively) an expert in the field compared to the rest of us. i find most of his analyses to be quite compelling, just from a rational standpoint. so much of the 911 movement is based on red herrings, and i like it when he calls bullshit |
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| Originally posted by shaolin_Z Plus, like I stated earlier, the collapse of the towers was near physicially impossible, and I've studied plenty of physics to call "bullshit" on it . |
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| Originally posted by Sunsnail LOL. Seems like it went Titanic on yo ass |
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| Originally posted by shaolin_Z the collapse of the towers was near physicially impossible, |
as well as the peer reviews disagree with you. that's all that matters imo.
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| Originally posted by shaolin_Z the collapse of the towers was near physicially impossible, and I've studied plenty of physics to call "bullshit" on it . |
Dude, I've seen those a million times already.
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| Originally posted by shaolin_Z Dude, I've seen those a million times already. |
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN well, its funny that you should think there were explosives used if you have seen it a million times |
I thought explosives exploded. 
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| Originally posted by shaolin_Z It's funny that you should think there weren't any |
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| Originally posted by shaolin_Z Dude, I've seen those a million times already. |
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| Originally posted by Q5echo no you haven't. it's obvious you haven't. i'm sure you saw it. but you didn't look at it. you didn't consider it i'm sure. you would have if you actually looked at it. people see things all the time. what people don't do all the time is look. sound familiar? |
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| Originally posted by shaolin_Z Whatever floats your boat. |
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| Originally posted by shaolin_Z Whatever floats your boat. |
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| Originally posted by shaolin_Z LOL, what a nut! That's what you sound like majority of the time in this thread btw PKC |
Strange how a building ALREADY damaged from falling debris from the WTC collapses takes a third of the day to cook and never collapses. Also worth mentioning is that this once 40 story building is being deconstructed instead of demolished.
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| 2 bravest killed in inferno 7-alarm fire erupts in tower feet from The Pit Story reported by NICK REISMAN, VERONIKA BELENKAYA, NICOLE BODE, ALISON GENDAR, MELISSA GRACE and DORIAN BLACK. Written by ADAM NICHOLS Sunday, August 19th 2007, 4:53 AM * Suggest a Story Firefighters peer up yesterday at the raging inferno they fought all evening in the former Deutsche Bank tower near Ground Zero. Firefighters peer up yesterday at the raging inferno they fought all evening in the former Deutsche Bank tower near Ground Zero. Joe Graffagnino Joe Graffagnino Robert Beddia Robert Beddia An injured firefighter is evacuated just steps away from The Pit. An injured firefighter is evacuated just steps away from The Pit. Two firefighters were killed yesterday when a nightmarish inferno engulfed a vacant skyscraper overlooking Ground Zero that was left decimated by the 9/11 attacks. Fallen heroes Joe Graffagnino, 33, and Robert Beddia, 53, ran out of oxygen while trapped inside the former Deutsche Bank building, a maze-like warren of debris, sources said. They died steps from The Pit where 343 of their brethren perished when the twin towers fell on Sept. 11, 2001 - including 11 from their own Engine 24/Ladder 5 firehouse. "That house being hit again makes it all the more devastating," Fire Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta said at NYU Downtown Hospital. Mayor Bloomberg called the deaths "another cruel blow to our city and to our Fire Department." The blaze engulfed 10 floors of the eyesore and burned for seven hours - sending a cloud of black smoke over lower Manhattan and rousing painful 9/11 memories. As flaming debris rained down, cops evacuated nearby apartments, and local residents worried about toxic fallout from the contaminated site. The office tower, which was damaged when the south tower at the World Trade Center collapsed, was being dismantled floor by floor after years of delays. Once 40 stories, it was down to 26 floors when the fire started on the 14th floor around 3:30 p.m. The cause of the blaze was unknown, but a construction crew was working there yesterday afternoon and a police source said one of them may have been smoking. The fire eventually went to seven alarms, drawing hundreds of Bravest to the scene. Five other firefighters were injured. Graffagnino, an eight-year veteran from Brooklyn, and Beddia, a 23-year veteran from Staten Island, were running a hose up when they got trapped on the 14th floor, where they were found unconscious. They suffered smoke inhalation that caused cardiac arrest, officials said. They had air tanks, but it appears the oxygen ran out before they were found, a source said. A paramedic who struggled to save one of the victims said it was a hopeless situation. "He was dead from the moment they brought him out of the building," the emergency worker said. "We tried everything ... but nothing helped." The loss seemed senseless to some firefighters. "The city lets that building sit there for what, going on six years, and now two more firefighters die?" said one who worked with Graffagnino and Beddia. "It makes me sick." Battling the flames was harrowing because of the condition of the partly demolished building - including a lack of water outlets inside. "This fire was a nightmare. The standpipes for water were out of commission because the building was being torn apart," said a firefighter. "Every floor was wrapped in heavy plastic sheeting because of the asbestos abatement work being done. "Only one of the two construction elevators was working. "Getting in and out was a mess - and two men died for this cursed building," the firefighter said. Another said, "It was a maze inside. The building was a shell filled with combustibles." Flaming plywood that had been nailed across windows destroyed on 9/11 fell to the ground, close to passersby and fire trucks, said witnesses. Glass showered onto sidewalks as much as three hours after the fire first erupted. More than four hours after the first report, it was upgraded to a seven-alarm. The blaze was still not under control when the deaths of Graffagnino and Beddia were announced at NYU Downtown Hospital. The widow of one of the men was inconsolable when she arrived. "She was screaming, 'Please, let me know, is he dead?'" said Evelyn Franco, who was with a sick relative in the ER when the firefighters' families showed up. "She was shouting, 'Oh my God, please, don't take him away.'She was hysterical. The place was full of firefighters. There were hundreds of them." The mayor visited relatives at the hospital and reassured the public there was no health threat from the fire - even though asbestos and other hazards had been dumped on the building on 9/11. Cops put in place a mandatory evacuation of 120 Greenwich Ave., an apartment building they feared could be hit by falling debris. Voluntary evacuations were put in place at 106 and 110 Greenwich Ave. Bloomberg dismissed claims the empty shell was in danger of collapse - but some residents were still concerned about its stability and the air quality. "We worry about this building on a daily basis," said Battery Park City resident Tom Goodkind, 53, who was wearing a gas mask. "There's a scary amount of toxic chemicals in there." The smoke from the fire was so thick it poured across the Hudson River to New Jersey and could be seen from midtown. "We saw the smoke and we joked that it was coming from where the World Trade Center disaster was," said tourist Suhas Narkhede, 39, from Toronto. "Then we saw the flames and thought, 'Oh no.' Bad things keep happening here." |
^^ funny how these idiots still dont understand a damned thing 
please, someone illustrate to me why this is comparable to the WTCs in any way, shape or form.
just another non sequitur in a long line of non sequiturs.
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