TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- stop talking trash about israel and the us
Pages (7): « 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7]

quote:

Originally posted by dj adagnitio And how can you call statistics and other such information bullshit? they are definitelly the most effective way to make a judgement about something. I do know what Im talking about. And I can definitelly make reasonable judgements based on statistics and the like.

Well then make sure that your statistics are accurate. So far, I haven't seen you actually provide any references for your statistics, and when I have corrected the innaccurate statistics you provided, you change the nature of your argument to state that the statistic in question cannot be "clearly defined." So are we selectively using the statistics that support our arguments and ignoring the ones that don't?

On that note:

quote:

It's true that all countries have a poor and a homeless but between different places their are three essential differences. One is how many of each their are. This differs a lot from place to place. For example in Cuba their are virtually no homeless people and no poor people compared to the U.S. where their are fair sized amounts of both.

http://www.undp.org/hdr2003/indicator/cty_f_CUB.html

Perhaps you should alert the UN. It seems that they are under the mistaken impression that Cuba has significant poverty levels to warrant a ranking in the poverty index only slightly better than Singapore, Jordan, or Panama.

Also very odd that 13% of the Cuban population is undernourished despite the fact that everybody has money!

http://www.undp.org/hdr2003/indicator/indic_60_2_1.html

I guess food isn't a very high priority to some people.

Occrider man, love ya!


always on duty to keep baseless crap in check

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Also very odd that 13% of the Cuban population is undernourished despite the fact that everybody has money! http://www.undp.org/hdr2003/indicator/indic_60_2_1.html I guess food isn't a very high priority to some people.

haha, good one man, you just turned my day around with that one =), thnx

Are you going to try and dispute my saying that poverty levels can be measured in many different ways? As so this makes them hard to define. I don't really see how that can be disputed?

As for Cuba, you misinterpreted what I said. I did not mean that people in Cuba aernt poor. The issue I was discussing wasn't how rich countries are it was the gap between rich and poor. In Cuba there are a vary few number of very rich elites who control a large amount of the wealth. Beyond them however their are very small class distinctions, there isnt a huge difference in wealth amongst the rest of the population. Compared to the U.S. where even if you take out the extremes there is still a big difference between the bottom and the top.

Are you going to try and dispute my saying that poverty levels can be measured in many different ways? As so this makes them hard to define. I don't really see how that can be disputed?

As for Cuba, you misinterpreted what I said. I did not mean that people in Cuba aernt poor. The issue I was discussing wasn't how rich countries are it was the gap between rich and poor. In Cuba there are a vary few number of very rich elites who control a large amount of the wealth. Beyond them however their are very small class distinctions, there isnt a huge difference in wealth amongst the rest of the population. Compared to the U.S. where even if you take out the extremes there is still a big difference between the bottom and the top.

I'm not arguing that poverty can't be defined many ways at all. You provided the incorrect statistic in your criticism of the US:

quote:

I am by no means saying that 90% of Americans live in poverty, or that even 50% do. I believe the statistic is probably somewhere near 30%, which is still very high.

After which Hadi ****** stated that statistics alone are not an effective measure for determining whether a country is good to live in. You then stated that:

quote:

And how can you call statistics and other such information bullshit? they are definitelly the most effective way to make a judgement about something. I do know what Im talking about. And I can definitelly make reasonable judgements based on statistics and the like.

Then I corrected your statistic and provided Canada's for comparison. At which point you then proceed to debunk the use of the poverty statistic as an effective measure because it is not clearly definable. This resulted in my confusion as to why you would even use the statistic to begin with . Which prompted me to ask the question "So are we selectively using the statistics that support our arguments and ignoring the ones that don't?" And now that I think about my question, I'm doubly confused (and admittedly somewhat amused) because the statistic you're selectively using and the statistic you're selectively ignoring are the same statistic.

Now, with respect to Cuba, if you're arguing that there is very little income inequality (and I don't know how you know this because the Cuban government doesn't appear to release these statistics ... I checked), and that there is very little wage discrepancy, then I think we can conclude that nearly the entire population makes relatively the same amount of money as those 13% who are malnourished. Therefore there is very little inequality in the country because everybody is equally poor (unless malnourishment is a poorly defined measure as well). Sooooo in conclusion, it is better that everybody be equally poor than to not be equal at all ... ahhh i love communism!

quote:

Originally posted by dj adagnitio The poverty rate cannot be clearly defined because there are many different ways of producing a number. This does not mean that one should not use it as a point in an argument. Almost any statistical measure cannot be clearly defined because their are many different ways of doing an analysis. Each different way has it's good and bads. Just because there isn't one answer doesn't mean noone should use any of them as a tool to show a point.

I clearly never debunked the use of statistics. I actually clearly said that they are still a valid thing to use in producing an argument. Im not ignoring any statistic. If for some reason we really wanted to get into this then we would get different statistics, examine the methodology of both and then debate which are more accurate. However I doubt either of us have the time or the will to do that so...

I imagine it is true that the Cuban government doesn't realease those statistics, for all I know they may not even collect them. However their are pieces out there that discuss such issues even without official statistics. I believe it is true that most of their population would fall into a quite poor class by our standards. I would also like to point out that despite that they all recieve health care and education and do a lot better then people in similar situations in other countries. They have also endured a U.S. embargo that is very damaging to them. Their is no evidence to show that if they lived under capitalism they would do any better, except that they wouldn't have to deal with the trade embargo. It's hard to actually know as a matter of fact, but I am fairly confident the average Cuban does better now then before the revolution.

quote:

Originally posted by dj adagnitio The poverty rate cannot be clearly defined because there are many different ways of producing a number. This does not mean that one should not use it as a point in an argument.

Yes, it does. One of the most fundamental and basic concepts of rational argument is that all terms must be precisely defined in order to have any logical meaning. If a statistic cannot be collected and interpreted in an objective manner, it has no value in a debate, and any conclusions drawn from those statistics are the products of fallacious reasoning.

The Israeli government's startling announcement that the Palestinian perpetrators of the (Sept. 9) dual terror attacks in Tsrifin (7 murdered, 30 wounded) and Jerusalem's Caf�� Hillel (8 murdered, 50 wounded) were both, just six months ago, released from administrative detention in an Israeli prison.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.