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quote:

Originally posted by Aiwendil What all this has to do with going on an unhealthy water-only diet is beyond me.

This was also about general well-being. They basically realized that you have a limited amount of enzyme production. And when you eat really starchy stuff or super high glycemic items your pancreas has to go nuts and just flooding the stomach with enzymes. It had a lot to do with why old people can eat and eat and they just shit out broccoli chunks.

end point was that your body gets a pavlovian response to eating in general and when you start to eat it is already dumping enzymes in. So when you eat raw foods for a while, and supplement what you ARE eating that is processed with liquid aminos, your body lowers its output and you tend to live a lot longer.

so...they were connected by the first thing I said.

quote:

Originally posted by D-res

If you dont think you eat very healthy generally, I would do monday fruit only, tues/wednes/thursday fasting and fruit friday morning, tuna fish sandwich for lunch, and a pretty decent meal for dinner.

Ive drank after fasting a couple of times hehe and you get wildly knocked off your gourd if you arent careful.

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end point was that your body gets a pavlovian response to eating in general and when you start to eat it is already dumping enzymes in. So when you eat raw foods for a while, and supplement what you ARE eating that is processed with liquid aminos, your body lowers its output and you tend to live a lot longer.

Says you? Live longer? Prove it. Eat all the raw food you want though, maybe you're right. I'm still not understanding why you think fasting is healthy in any way or why it's connected with any kind of physical well-being.

its years of articles and books. Im not at my house right now so I cant give you titles and authors and stuff, but in the same way, im still not understanding why you dont think fasting is healthy in any way or why it's not connected with any kind of physical well-being.

At 10am this morning I had fasted for 60 hours and had 3.5 hours sleep since waking up on Saturday morning

Well, at least fasted from food, drink/drugs provided the little fuel I needed to make it home today

Time for a gigantic salad methinks

hehe ive noticed some issues with sleep during fasting because your energy output is so low that you dont really get sleepy.

That salad should rock your socks. Do you guys have Costco yet?! they make the best salads.

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax its years of articles and books.

That no doubt contain no scientific evidence. If there were i'm sure there would be some place on the internet saying there was. I have found more than one source saying that there is no scientific evidence that detox diets or fasting do what they claim.

quote:

im still not understanding why you dont think fasting is healthy in any way or why it's not connected with any kind of physical well-being.

Uh, because you don't eat? What are you not understanding? I'm still not understanding why you think not eating is healthy in any way. In fact that sounds pretty crazy to me.

It depletes your body of nutrients that food provides such as carbohydrates. In this depleted condition glycogen levels drop and your body goes into a state called ketosis. These are some possible side-effects of ketosis:

1. intolerance of the rapid onset of ketosis
2. constipation
3. hypoglycaemia (symptoms: fatigue, weakness, confusion, dizziness, irritability, a rapid heartbeat, anxiety, sweating, trembling, hunger, and headaches)
4. lack of appetite
5. nausea and vomiting
6. rise in total serum cholesterol
7. periods of anorexia (aversion to food)
8. symptomatic metabolic acidosis when associated with infection
9. carnitine insufficiency
10. bad breath


It's just common sense that not eating is BAD, and combined with the fact that there is no proof that fasting is more beneficial than anything else for "toxins" in your body, I believe fasting can only be harmful in the end. If you eat raw food with your water it would be better.

Benefits to ketosis:

1) Clearer thinking
2) more energy
3) reduction of food cravings.

The things you put dont really happen unless you have a pre-existing condition, or are doing something bad, like not drinking water either. In a 3 day fast your ketosis only happens for about 12 hours, and the acetone produced as a biproductic is flushed out of your body with water, so just keep purifying and youre fine.

Like I said earlier, americans feel like they are gonna fucking die if they miss a MEAL when you have people around the world who are lucky if they get 1 of our meals spread over 2 days.

not eating has been happening for thousands of years and to think that because of a few modern luxuries our bodies have evolved to need food in our gut 24/7 is ridiculous.

and, again, like I said, Im not at home right now to quote the material, and the internet quotes are largely useless as every single site has its antithesis.

quote:

Originally posted by Estella I've actually heard the benefits of White Tea to be greater than that of Green Tea. I've never had any experience with White Tea. I just heard this not long ago, didn't even know it existed. Another trip to Wild Oats! Do you have any info on this? I'll keep you posted, none the less. b.u.m.p I've read 96oz. of water to be the magical number of water consumption throughout the day. If I was to do an Orbax advised 5 day h2o fast, would this amount of water throw off electrolytes? I've read through this thread and pumped to start! The only thing is, there's an unopened bottle of margarita mix whispering hot breathe into me ear. Also, my school schedule this semester is pretty rigorous. For example, tomorrow I'm attending for 9 hours. Could this end up being a major downfall? Or advantage? What I'm getting at is, I'm needing all the brain juice. I can't be hallucinating or having epileptic attacks on the biology lab floor. Will a 5 day fast provide clarity or will I mentally degenerate? Whiskers, keep us posted! Was it a success? Drawbacks? Advantages? Are.you.Alive?!

just to advise here, I wouldn't suggest doing it on days where you have school etc, make it a long weekend or some other time that you can just keep yourself to yourself if you begin to feel yucky

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax Benefits to ketosis: 1) Clearer thinking 2) more energy 3) reduction of food cravings.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Glucose, the main fuel for our body and our brain is conserved during ketosis, and in its place ketone bodies are used for energy production and to fuel brain and nervous system function. Ketone bodies are not nearly as efficient as glygogen. If you're in a prolonged state of ketosis you'll feel sluggish, your mental processes suffer, and you slowly become dehydrated. And since you're not eating i'd assume your food cravings would increase.

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Like I said earlier, americans feel like they are gonna fucking die if they miss a MEAL when you have people around the world who are lucky if they get 1 of our meals spread over 2 days.

What difference does it make what people around the world eat? If they get that kind of nutrition they are not living a healthy lifestyle. There is a minimum amount of nutrients our bodies need to carry on basic functions each day, an amount that cannot be provided through such bare eating habits.

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not eating has been happening for thousands of years and to think that because of a few modern luxuries our bodies have evolved to need food in our gut 24/7 is ridiculous.

We don't need it period, we need it if we are to stay healthy.

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and the internet quotes are largely useless as every single site has its antithesis.

Not really. You know, if you find a credible site.




I'll just end with this:

I say to be at your healthiest you must always eat a balanced diet of all nutrients and enzymes, never going on any kind of "fad diets" or fasts. Our bodies' biology dictates that we get a certain amount of nutrients from food each day in order for our bodies to function at their optimum levels.

Orbax says in order be at your healthiest you must starve yourself for some reason? What reason? Because a lot of other people do it? That's not a reason, that's a logical fallacy. He's just throwing up a bunch of Red herrings.


Now which makes more sense?

your little wrong wrong wrong thing while cute, didnt really prove a whole lot. Go to Google and type in "fasting forums" and read what people say about it and how it makes them feel. I know you are like...crazy health nut guy that has actually experienced the stuff hes talking about (oh wait...) but you seem to be basing all your shit off of random biology when you fail to see systems at work.

Go read forums, read what people say about it. Hype is great and all but try having some real feed back

also your definition of starving is still skewed.


http://www.student.missouristate.ed...8s/starving.htm

might give you some perspective

also, get into some tighty whiteys sit down in a chair and take a picture of yourself and tell me how great you look. Its fine to sit back and comment but when you have a shit body and you get sick more than 1 time a year, you kind of just have to keep your mouth shut because no one will believe you. You may even be right, but i dont want to hear it. Hitler could have had the ultimate secret to becoming a Christian, but I wouldnt listen to him either.

two books to read:


Eating Well for Optimum Health by Andrew Weil, M.D.

Fasting and Eating for Health by Joel Fuhrman, M.D. with foreward by Neal D. Barnard, M.D., President, Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine.


two great books.

cover quotes: "Precise diet and fasting programs to relieve headaches, hypoglycemia, heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, colitis, psoriasis, lupus, and uterine fibroids."

"How to start, what to expect, how to reintroduce foods to maintain maximum benefits"

"How to work with a physician for longer fasts (More than 3 days)

I have more, but these are the two best.

Seeing as you have nothing of substance to add besides useless insults and supposition, i'll also say that the whole "enzymes in raw foods take digestive strain off of the body" thing is not true. You see, whether enzymes are killed by cooking/processing or not, the highly acidic environment of the stomach deactivates any outside enzymes before they reach your small intestine. Enzymes in raw food never make it past the stomach.

What I look like has no bearing on the validity of the things I say. You're simply spouting out more logical fallacies. I can't even remember the last time I was sick. People say it makes them feel better? Good for them, unfortunately that does little to show me that the positive effects are from fasting or that they are more than some kind of placebo effect.

As for those books, i'm sure they present one possible side, the side you follow. A side which has yet to be scientifically proven through the scientific method and peer review. The authors are doctors? So what? This book was written by a mechanical engineer, that doesn't mean what he writes is the truth.

so youre saying there isnt a difference between raw food and cooked food? it all gets dumped into acid? weird. Id say pretty much every nutritionist would disagree with your little statement there.

The whole detox diet thing might not be as good for you as people think:

Clicky

quote:

Originally posted by Streakfury The whole detox diet thing might not be as good for you as people think: Clicky

either way you feel great when its finished

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax so youre saying there isnt a difference between raw food and cooked food? it all gets dumped into acid? weird. Id say pretty much every nutritionist would disagree with your little statement there.

There are many differences between raw and cooked food. The supposition that one relieves strain off the digestive system more than the other is highly suspect. The stomach secretes digestive enzymes that can work in stomach acid. The enzymes in raw food cannot. Most nutritionalists? I don't really think you know what most nutritionalists would say about my "little statement" any more than I do.

And you would do well to stop assuming what I have and have not done. For all you know i've been fasting for most of my life and stopped recently, or I tried fasting and it didn't work, or I felt no effects from a detox diet I tried.

yeah, thats probably true, but fasting is an excellent tool for breaking cravings and addictions. Its strengthens you mentally, and a few days without all the shit dumping into it cant hurt. I dont think you should fast more than 1 day usually and maybe when you start falling back into addictions hit a longer one.

In the end, most of the people I suggest it to are people having serious issues with carb and sugar cravings and they tend to disappear after getting away from refined sugars and switching over to the more natural ones in fruit.

Its a diet tool, and it helps establish good patterns.

quote:

Originally posted by Aiwendil Most nutritionalists? I don't really think you know what most nutritionalists would say about my "little statement" any more than I do.

good point, you totally delegitimized my statement with that one brilliant stroke

quote:

And you would do well to stop assuming what I have and have not done. For all you know i've been fasting for most of my life and stopped recently, or I tried fasting and it didn't work, or I felt no effects from a detox diet I tried.

so whats your point. For all you know Ive been a spy all my life trading secrets to russia.

Point is im not and I havent. Dont call someone out for making assumptions and then do nothing to shed light on to the subject. and so far, it sounds like youve never tried it because it sounds scary and it isnt eating and its starving yourself

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax yeah, thats probably true, but fasting is an excellent tool for breaking cravings and addictions. Its strengthens you mentally, and a few days without all the shit dumping into it cant hurt. I dont think you should fast more than 1 day usually and maybe when you start falling back into addictions hit a longer one. In the end, most of the people I suggest it to are people having serious issues with carb and sugar cravings and they tend to disappear after getting away from refined sugars and switching over to the more natural ones in fruit. Its a diet tool, and it helps establish good patterns.

Again, I don't see what going without all food has to do with any of this. If someone wishes to stop carb and sugar cravings, why would not eating any food at all be better than just eating less carbs and sugars? I'd think it would be even harder to fast than to simply limit your intake of what you have a craving for. Carbohydrates and sugars are not inherently bad for your body, in fact both are needed in some amount for the normal functioning of our bodies. Health problems only arise when they are completely left out or when we get too much of them.

because eating itself is a habit and there tons of little habits associated with it. Stay out of the kitchen, start realizing PHYSICALLY how you eat when youre bored. Dont just make the cognitive understanding because everyone has heard it. Realize hunger is a throat and mouth sensation and what a slave you are to your hungers, make it so you can control yourself. Its like why when you are training for a 1 mile race, you run like 5 miles. If you keep running 1 you dont push any barriers and cant grow.

People need extreme shit to help them. I dont know if youve ever had the opportunity to deal with obese and overweight people, but I do it all the time because people always ask me how I got into shape.

Im going off feed back from people with fucking ADDICTIONS here who cry and throw up when they eat and keep doing it. You need to do extreme measures sometimse.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail either way you feel great when its finished

Yeah. I forsee many a hangover during the first week of uni, so I reckon a good detoxing afterwards should sort me out.

anyone... i run XC so would fasting for 2-3 days decrease my ability to participate in physically demanding sports or should i wait till i have break from it?

quote:

Originally posted by wizniz anyone... i run XC so would fasting for 2-3 days decrease my ability to participate in physically demanding sports or should i wait till i have break from it?

during fasting you want to limit activity as much as possible. XC is gonna be demanding enough even with eating tons. Good luck with that hehe.

@streakfury: haha thats actually why I started doing it. My liver actually hurt to the touch one day @@ fast really helped!

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