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-- September 11th Attacks - Do You Think It Was a Conspiracy?
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Ben Fountain, 42, a financial analyst with Fireman's Fund, was coming out of the Chambers Street Station, headed for his office on the 47th floor of the south tower.
How could they let this happen? They knew this building was a target. Over the past few weeks we'd been evacuated a number of times, which is unusual. I think they had an inkling something was going on.
http://web.archive.org/web/20010914...74592-5,00.html
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| Originally posted by Trancer-X Come on man, give me a break. |
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| Originally posted by occrider For what? |
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| Originally posted by Trancer-X I guess what I should have said is - since it's beyond the scope of your seemingly narrow perception, then it cannot be real? I hope that was articulated well enough for you. |
Louis Freeh Charges 9/11 Commission Cover-Up
NewsMax.com Wires
Thursday, Nov. 17, 2005
Former FBI Director Louis J. Freeh slammed the 9/11 Commission Thursday saying it ignored � or "summarily rejected" � the most critical piece of intelligence that could have prevented the horrific attacks of September 11, 2001.
Writing in the Wall Street Journal's opinion page, Freeh gave a blistering review of the Commission and says new revelations indicate it is "a good time for the country to make some assessments of the 9/11 Commission itself."
The former Bureau Director, who resigned his position just months before Sept. 11, 2001, points out that the U.S. government had learned of the identity of Mohammed Atta the year prior to the attacks. Atta was one of the ringleaders of the group, and piloted an American Airlines plane that slammed into one of the Twin Towers.
Freeh recounts that military intelligence operation code-named "Able Danger" concluded in February 2000 that military experts had identified Atta as an al-Qaida agent operating in the U.S.
"Subsequently, military officers assigned to Able Danger were prevented from sharing this critical information with FBI agents," Freeh writes. "Why?" he ponders, suggesting the failure to share such intelligence may be a smoking gun pointing at federal malfeasance in the case.
Freeh maintains that the Able Danger intelligence, if confirmed, is "undoubtedly the most relevant fact of the entire post-9/11 inquiry . . . Yet the 9/11 Commission inexplicably concluded that it "was not historically significant."
Two members of the House, Curt Weldon (R-Pa.) and Dan Burton (R-Ind.), have reported that shortly after the 9/11 attacks they provided then-Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley with a "chart" displaying pre-attack information about al-Qaida that had been collected by Able Danger.
But a spokesperson for the White House said that "a search of National Security Council files had failed to produce such a chart."
The final 9/11 Commission report, released on July 22, 2004, concluded that "American intelligence agencies were unaware of Mr. Atta until the day of the attacks."
Writes Freeh: "This now looks to be embarrassingly wrong."
In fact, Freeh discloses that 10 days before the report was released, commission staffers met with a Navy officer who said that Able Danger had identified Atta as an al-Qaida member and told the Commission the unit "had identified Mohammed Atta to be a member of an al Qaeda cell located in Brooklyn."
But the commission determined that "the officer's account was not sufficiently reliable to warrant revision of the report or further investigation.
Said Freeh: "This dismissive and apparently unsupported conclusion would have us believe that a key piece of evidence was summarily rejected in less than 10 days without serious investigation . . . "No wonder the 9/11 families were outraged by these revelations and called for a �new' commission to investigate."
Though Freeh never blames any Clinton administration officials by name, responsibility for the intelligence failure would squarely fall on the Clinton administration as Able Danger's information was uncovered before George Bush became president.
Congressman Weldon, who has led Congressional efforts to shed light on the Able Danger claims, alleges that Jamie Gorelick, one of the Sept. 11 Commissioners, prevented the full committee from learning of Able Danger's crucial information. Gorelick has served as deputy attorney general during the Clinton administration.
"There's a cover up here," Weldon said. "It's clear and unequivocal." Freeh argues the Able Danger information requires a new inquiry. He also praised the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Arlen Specter (R-Pa.), for examining some of these matters.
Specter said at one hearing: "If Mr. Atta and other 9/11 terrorists were identified before the attacks, it would be a very serious breach not to have that information passed along ... We ought to get to the bottom of it."
Freeh writes in the Journal: "Indeed we should. "The Joint Intelligence Committees should reconvene and, in addition to Able Danger team members, we should have the 9/11 commissioners appear as witnesses so the families can hear their explanation why this doesn't matter."
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/art...17/122900.shtml
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| Originally posted by occrider Now then ... I'll kindly ask you, just this once, to remain civil. If you choose to continue with the ad-hominems at any further point in our discussions than I'll have no choice but to reply in kind ... not that I can't step up to the challenge because I can be one condescending motherfuc*er when I put my mind to it, but I would rather not, however, if that's the type of "intelligent" discourse you're looking for than so be it. Don't assume that I'm an intellectual inferior that you can nonchelantely cast barbs at simply because I disagree with specific arguments that you hold dear to. I would never make such an assumption about you when you disagree with any one of my arguments and I would hope that there is some likewise civility left in debate. I hope that I likewise articulated that well enough for you. |
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| Originally posted by Trancer-X How was I not being civil? By calling a spade a spade? |
Is anyone interested in a million dollar challenge?
$1,000,000.00 is the prize...
http://reopen911.org/Contest.htm
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| Originally posted by occrider Because everything I say is factual in nature. Therefore the mere hint of digression is an indisputable, obligatory falsehood. See, I learn quickly |
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| Originally posted by Trancer-X Just because I say something that you don't want to hear, I'm uncivil? Jeez. You need to grow some thicker skin, bro.[/color] |
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| Originally posted by Trancer-X Yeah, but you also used to think that George Bush would be a good president - so I know that right off the bat you are wrong. |
. I actually voted for Gore thinking that Bush was too stupid to be President (an opinion I have NEVER deviated from). I have defended him from time to time however, from criticism that I have felt was unfair. I have defended some of his policies, from time to time, from criticism that I felt was unfair. At no point in time, however, did I ever think that Bush was a good President or the president I would rather have in office. See ... that's the danger of the "You're either with us or against us" mentality ... one would hope you're not taking lessons from Bush . So what lessons can we learn from assumptions?
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| Originally posted by occrider I have absultely no problems with disagreements. You can say that I'm completely wrong and tell me why. You can say that any argument I have made was one of the most retarded things you have ever heard becase of x, y, and c. Yet when you start attacking my personal character as opposed to my arguments I don't see how one's panties cannot get in a bunch. "You're a fucking loony who believes every crackpot conspiracy theory that crosses your desk while you lack the basic intellectual honesty that demands the least bit of verification to determine whether you're negligently spreading lies simply because the conclusions coincide with your predetermined beliefs and that's all you really care about." So ... thick skin ... uncivil ... what? I'm regarding this as an intellectual debate mind you . |
You have to do a lot better than that. Well, then again - I think ignorance bothers me a lot more than verbal insults ever could, so you're not too far off track - as narrowmindedness is really just another form of ignorance.
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| Originally posted by occrider Well I'm sorry to tell you, but right off the bat you're wrong . I actually voted for Gore thinking that Bush was too stupid to be President (an opinion I have NEVER deviated from). I have defended him from time to time however, from criticism that I have felt was unfair. I have defended some of his policies, from time to time, from criticism that I felt was unfair. At no point in time, however, did I ever think that Bush was a good President or the president I would rather have in office. See ... that's the danger of the "You're either with us or against us" mentality ... one would hope you're not taking lessons from Bush . So what lessons can we learn from assumptions? |
The truth about Zelikow and the Sept. 11 cover-up commission
Wednesday, October 20, 2004
By CAROLE BROUILLET
Philip Zelikow will speak at Kresge Auditorium, today, from 4:15 to 5:30 p.m. We plan to protest the Sept. 11 cover-up and to raise questions about his role as executive director of the 9-11 Commission and the Commission�s report.
Zelikow, a national security adviser to both Bush administrations and a principal author of the official 9-11 Commission Report, was part of Bush�s transition team for the National Security Council after the 2000 election. He was appointed to the President�s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board a month after the Sept. 11 2001 attacks.
The Family Steering Committee called for his resignation because of his obvious conflicts of interests.
While Sept. 11 has been used to invade Afghanistan and Iraq, shred the Constitution and Bill of Rights, construct a global police state, enrich weapons manufacturers and seize oil assets, there have been no convictions in any courts of law supporting the government conspiracy theory, particularly the Saddam Hussein / Al Qaeda link.
The 9-11 Commission failed to mention or address the multiple war games / exercises that were being conducted that day, out of the White House. As many as five war game drills were in process, some involving hijacked airliners, a plane crashing into a building, some involving false blips deliberately inserted onto FAA and military radar screens.
One exercise pulled significant fighter resources away from the Northeastern United States on Sept. 11.
These exercises involved North American Air Defense Command, the Federal Aviation Administration, the Canadian Air Force, the CIA and the National Reconnaissance Office.
Coincidentally, in New York City, massive preparations were underway for a biochemical attack drill involving FEMA, the Mayor�s Office of Emergency Management, the FBI, the U.S. Department of Justice, Weill Medical College, the N.Y. Deptartment of Health, the N.Y. Fire Department, the N.Y. Police Department, the American Red Cross and the Port Authority.
The Secret Service and Cheney�s overseeing role during the events of Sept. 11 were overlooked. This was documented in Michael Ruppert�s new book �Crossing the Rubicon � The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil.�
The Commissioners and Zelikow had deep conflicts of interest and many reasons to cover up the truth about Sept. 11.
They are now engaged in a public relations effort to sell the official narrative and the war on terrorism. Both the official inquiry and the Commission�s parameters were to support the official story and justify the creation of Homeland Security Department.
Homeland Security in German is �geheimstadt politza,� which during World War II was abbreviated to Gestapo. Do Americans really believe a �Gestapo� will make us safer?
The Stanford Institute for International Studies is sponsoring Zelikow�s talk, but the Department of Homeland Security has awarded a 15-month $1.65-million contract to CISAC and the Stanford Institute for International Studies to conduct research on how national and local agencies improve the design and evaluation of future terrorist exercises of national and local response systems.
The DHS research contract resulted from CISAC�s observation of last year�s spring State Department-DHS-sponsored, full-scale exercise called TOPOFF2, designed to prepare national, state and local officials to respond to potential terrorist attacks within the United States.
The United States has a long history of training terrorists and launching covert operations throughout the world.
Terrorism allows states to declare emergencies, label all opposition as terrorists and reduce civil rights.
Carol Brouillet is an organizer for the International Inquiry into 9-11, a group that is responsible for exposing information about Sept. 11.
http://daily.stanford.edu/tempo?pag...ry=0001_article
Anyone who would even debate this issue of a conspiracy is pandering to the nut-jobs and wasting time.
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| Originally posted by donnybrasco Anyone who would even debate this issue of a conspiracy is pandering to the nut-jobs and wasting time. |
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| By Deanna Spingola William Rodriguez, a 9-11 Survivor August 25, 2005 06:13 AM EST This past week I had the great pleasure of meeting William Rodriquez, a humble man from Puerto Rico who worked at the World Trade Center. He looked healthy in spite of suffering from many 9-11 related toxic diseases. The occasion was at a special meeting at the Schaumburg, Illinois Township Library in the Chicago suburbs. This informative presentation served as a memorial for the many victims as we approach the fourth year anniversary of 9-11. In addition to William other knowledgeable and well qualified individuals presented their thoughts: Phil Jayhan, Dave VonKleist and Christopher Bollyn, a journalist with the American Free Press. This event, which should have been standing room only, was sponsored in part by the American Free Press as well as Jimmy Walter and Eric Hufschmid, a physicist and author of Painful Questions. A press release was sent to all of the print media in the Chicago area about a month in advance of this event. There was a very tiny isolated notice about the event in one of the Chicago papers. Surely the local newspapers would wish to interview the participants on such an important subject as 9-11. But, only one Hispanic television station sent a journalist and a camera. So we must assume that the other Chicago news organizations have already determined exactly what they desire their readers to believe about 9-11. Let's not deviate from the government version and confuse people with the truth! William Rodriquez gave an outstanding, sensitive discourse of his experiences on that fateful morning. He appears to be a genuinely warm, gentle caring human being and it is easy to believe that his relationship with his many fellow employees was much more - they were also his long time friends. Daily, he met with them for breakfast in the Windows on the World Restaurant on the 106th floor. Nearly two hundred people, most of William's friends, were in the restaurant that morning. None of them survived. Not only did he lose his job on 11 September 2001, he lost most of his friends. William would have also perished had he been in the restaurant that morning but he arrived at work at 8:30 a.m. rather than his usual time of 8:00 a.m. William had worked for the New York Port Authority for about twenty years. He was in charge of the three stairwells - A, B and C. They were narrow and without windows. There were also 150 elevators in the building. He knew the building well. His job included the maintenance of the three narrow stairwells in the class "A" building - WTC1, the north tower. On a typical morning, he would have breakfast then begin at the top of the building and methodically work his way down. Arriving at 8:30 on the morning of 9-11 he went to the maintenance office located on the first sublevel, one of six sub-basements beneath ground level. There were a total of fourteen people in the office at this time. As he was talking with others, there was a very loud massive explosion which seemed to emanate from between sub-basement B2 and B3. There were twenty-two people on B2 sub-basement who also felt and heard that first explosion. At first he thought it was a generator that had exploded. But the cement walls in the office cracked from the explosion. "When I heard the sound of the explosion, the floor beneath my feet vibrated, the walls started cracking and everything started shaking." said Rodriguez, who was crowded together with fourteen other people in the office including Anthony Saltamachia, supervisor for the American Maintenance Company. Just seconds later there was another explosion way above which made the building oscillate momentarily. This, he was later told, was a plane hitting the 90th floor. Upon hearing about the plane, he immediately thought of the people up in the restaurant. Then there were other explosions just above B1 and individuals started heading for the loading dock to escape the explosion's resulting rampant fire. When asked later about those first explosions he said: "I would know if an explosion was from the bottom or the top of the building." He heard explosions both before and after the plane hit the tower. A fellow worker Felipe David came into the office. "He had been standing in front of a freight elevator on sub-level 1 about 400 feet from the office when fire burst out of the elevator shaft, causing his injuries." The skin on his face had been peeled away by the heat of the blast and he was horribly burned on thirty-three percent of his body. "He was burned so badly from the basement explosion that flesh was hanging from his face and both arms." William asks: "How could a jetliner hit 90 floors above and burn a man's arms and face to a crisp in the basement below within seconds of impact?" William led Felipe David outside to safety. William continued to hear people screaming and returned to the building in spite of police orders. There were people encased in elevators. There were people who needed help. There was a swooshing sound coming from the freight elevators on B2 and B3. Water from the fire sprinklers from all of the floors had gone into the elevator shaft. There were two individuals trapped below who were in danger of drowning. Rodriguez was able to secure a long enough ladder to extend into the shaft to facilitate their escape from a watery grave. He had possession of just one of the five master keys that opened all of the stairwell doors at each of the floors in the 110 story building. The other four key holders were trained for emergencies. They had already left the building. Firemen from New York City Unit Six arrived. Each fireman, in addition to protective clothing, had about 70 pounds of equipment. William, who now had the only key, led the firemen up stairwell B. Firemen were going up as victims were coming down. The stairwells were narrow with no windows. The firemen made it up to the 27th floor but were exhausted from the burden of their equipment. As William had ascended up the stairwell he, as well as the firemen, had heard explosions from the 20th through the 30th floor. Chunks of the building were falling down all around them and they could literally hear the building coming down. Yet, the firemen continued to climb and give aid. After all, they assumed the fire was isolated at the location where the plane entered. On the 33rd floor, William was able to procure some dust masks from a maintenance office. The air was thick with smoke. On the 33rd floor he found a woman laying on the floor in a fetal position. She didn't know where to go or what to do. They had fire drills twice a year but because of employee turnover, not everyone had a clear view of emergency procedures. While some individuals intuitively respond appropriately in an emergency, others are absolutely paralyzed by their fears. Strangely, while William was on the 33rd floor he heard lots of very loud noise as if someone was moving heavy equipment and furniture around on the 34th floor. The reason this is interesting is that the 34th floor was completely empty. Elevators did not stop at the 34th floor. It was off limits due to a construction project. He said that this was the first time that he felt fear. They continued to ascend to the 39th floor. This is as far as William got before he was turned back by the firefighters. As he began his descent he heard the plane hit the south tower. He made it back down to the hole where the front doors used to be before they were blown out. The bottoms of the elevator doors were blown partially open. He couldn't breath, his eyes burned, his leg was burned. Someone yelled: "Don't look back!" William looked back momentarily then raced for the first cover he saw - a fire truck. That is where he was found. Pulverized concrete mixed with asbestos and smoke created a dark cloud of doom. Flashlights were necessary. William received temporary medical assistance and then went to work trying to find survivors. The mangled bloodied bodies of the jumpers blanketed the ground. William will never forget the anguish he felt or the sight of this senseless horrific carnage. This was evidence of desperation - people desperate to escape possible death by suffocation or by fire chose death by jumping. The fires were contained and isolated. Much of the flame actually burned outside of the building upon impact. The fire was out - even at the giant gaping hole where the plane breached the building where people worked, talked with friends and felt relatively safe. William Rodriguez saved lives that day. Currently he is attempting to alert the public to what actually happened. He is a courageous witness to those terrible events. The controlled censored media doesn't really appear willing to report the real news but rather they promote whatever the propaganda ministry wants the masses to believe. It takes continuous courage to go against such opposition but that is the kind of man he is. He says that he owes it to his friends - those that were slaughtered for some covert political agenda. William spent hours testifying before the 9-11 Commission behind closed doors. His testimony as an eye witness does not appear anywhere in the 576 page report. But after all, Bush told us who did it, so why bother to examine the evidence or talk with the witnesses. The only agency that was allowed to investigate the circumstances of the event was FEMA. The National Institute of Safety and Technology (NIST), an independent investigative group ignored his plea to tell his story. He contacted them four times but never got a response. NIST was funded by the government which gives you a pretty good idea of just how subjective their findings were. They were paid $35 million dollars and the investigation lasted two years. The taxpayers certainly did not get their money's worth. William Rodriguez also contacted the FBI who never followed up. The media was not interested. CNN spent a day filming and interviewing him at his home but when it was shown the following day it was thoroughly edited. Some reporters have subtly warned Rodriguez to keep quiet as he could jeopardize his life. They said "You do not know who you are dealing with!" He already looked death in the face and he will probably continue to courageously tell his story. He is speaking the truth and he is speaking it for his friends. He says: "I am living on borrowed time since I probably should be dead anyway." William Rodriguez is the lead plaintiff in a RICO lawsuit filed against George W. (warmonger) Bush and others. He is alleging conspiracy to commit murder and other crimes. So not only is he speaking for his friends but he is seeking justice for all of the victims, both those who died and those who were injured. The World Trade Center twin towers were built from 1968 to 1972. To fireproof the building a mixture of asbestos and cement was sprayed during the construction. However, this fireproofing technique was banned in 1971 by the New York City Council. By then there was already hundreds of tons of this material in the building. Later, some of this material was removed yet there was still about 100 tons of asbestos remaining. Asbestos was used in other areas that would not leave the harmful residue unless there were extraordinary circumstances such as those that occurred on 9-11. William Rodriguez says: "I have tried to tell my story to everybody, but nobody wants to listen. It is very strange what is going on here in supposedly the most democratic country in the world. In my home country of Puerto Rico and all the other Latin American countries, I have been allowed to tell my story uncensored. But here, I can't even say a word." Thank goodness for the alternative media where one may still discover the truth. On 11 September 2001 our defense systems failed, NORAD failed, our president, intent on a goat story, failed to immediately respond; the twin towers failed - they collapsed - the only known steel frame buildings in history claimed to have failed because of fire. Other steel frame buildings have been known to burn for hours and hours yet they did not collapse. Of course, we do not know the cause of their failure as the evidence was rendered unavailable for investigation - either immediately sold or otherwise withheld. There was also the failure of the local authorities to warn the people about the toxic air that burned their lungs and blanketed their homes and would create life long health problems. They were told that there was no problem. After 9-11 there was a failure to discover exactly who made millions on all of the put options on American Airlines and United Airlines. That was another failure. So many failures and I haven't heard of one person reprimanded for inefficiency. However, there are those who were promoted. However, there were also great successes: The firemen who gave their lives - crushed in the totally unexpected and unusual building collapses. There were medical people who tenderly treated the trauma struck victims. The policemen did not fail and the thousands of volunteers who searched for the dead and dying did not fail. There were search and rescue dogs who did not fail - many of whom have since died of cancer. And William Rodriguez did not fail. He acted appropriately -just like a man of integrity and courage should act. He did not hesitate. Unlike others who should have responded immediately, he sprang into action and made selfless sacrifices for others. http://www.theconservativevoice.com...le.html?id=7762 |
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| The modern susceptibility to conformity and obedience to authority indicates that the truth endorsed by authority is likely to be accepted as such by a majority of people, who are innately obedient to authority. This obedience-truth will then become a consensus-truth accepted by many individuals unable to stand alone against the majority. In this way, the truth promulgated by the propaganda system - however irrational - stands a good chance of becoming the consensus, and may come to seem self-evident common sense. - David Edwards, British columnist |
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just because i cant prove to you that there arent fairies living on the dark side of the moon is not sufficient reason to start believing in fairies. -pkc |
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*gurgle* *gurgle* *gulp* *swallow* *moan* |
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN -your mum. |
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| Originally posted by Trancer-X I could only expect that from a creative genius such as yourself. How many of your 59 IQ points did it take to formulate that post? You don't have to answer - as I wouldn't want you to strain yourself any further than you already have. |
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN please dont make me talk about it or they might kill me |
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN hey! it wasnt my idea. i was an unwitting pawn in one of your govt's secret operations. please dont make me talk about it or they might kill me |
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| Originally posted by donnybrasco |
donny & me lumped into the same category?!?! shit, i wonder who\'s more offended?
and actually, trancer-x, my first post about fairies isnt \"monkey business\". i was merely stating that just coz neither of us can prove exactly what happened on 9/11 is no reason to believe it was a conspiracy. a bit of tongue-in-cheek criticism never went astray. you started the monkey business with mum calls einstein.
for the record its been a long time since i was an adolescent
i like the way you think, i just think without a \"smoking gun\" massive conspiracies are difficult (for me) to believe in.
peace? ill bring the foil if you make me the hat 
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