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-- u know for a trance board, alot of u are so anal about what music is not cheese
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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J He's arguing with Dave's strange idea that cheese is formulaeic music, which is a weird definition to say the least.

well it is and it isn't. Lets say Auora - Ordinary world used duran durans melody in their track, and Alpha Breed - Epic future used the same melody within months of each other, id call Epic future cheezy(i think epic future came out second).

Just becuase its a known melody that previousely worked, and all he did was remove the vox, and change the bassline... Aka it was just done cheeply...

quote:

Originally posted by sandstorm03 Umm ok .

Okay; any track that is centred around a single main melody, and is focussed on the introduction and use of that melody is an anthem. It can have other melodies, but they are secondary to the primary aim of the track: to make use of the "anthem". Which Forbidden Fruit does.

"Melodic" just means the track makes use of melodies extensively.

Well, TBH I don't bother buying more than one CD with the same songs on it, so I am not sure.

But I do remember hearing the Dave Pierce play tune on the 'Dance Anthems' show on radio1, and I also remember seing the video of it on MTV.

Not that I have anything against to song, but I think those things are enough evidence to show that it is indeed an anthem.

yikes kids, chill with the quoting me for a sec

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Okay; any track that is centred around a single main melody, and is focussed on the introduction and use of that melody is an anthem. It can have other melodies, but they are secondary to the primary aim of the track: to make use of the "anthem". Which Forbidden Fruit does.

the last time i checked thats what progressive trance is?

you know it starts simple, and progresses to a final stage... but all based on the same sounds?

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Balls Your fuckin 16 years old !!! You probably havent even had sex yet,let alone discover the entire world of music. I admit I don't know shit. But for you , a 16 year old kid, to try to act like you have more expereince and more education than an adult is silly. Seriously. stop ruinng this thread kid and let's just call it a truce. OK.

You probably dropped out of education when you were younger than me, or else you wanked away a few years taking a faggot degree. Either way you've obviously got no real education inside you, else you'd have learned some proper debating skills along the line. I suppose there's no need when you're working towards paying off a mortgage in a dead end job every day, huh?

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Okay; any track that is centred around a single main melody, and is focussed on the introduction and use of that melody is an anthem. It can have other melodies, but they are secondary to the primary aim of the track: to make use of the "anthem". Which Forbidden Fruit does.

EXCUSE ME



But doesn't anthem mean something popular within its genre.???



A song can be structure around a main melody but if it sucks it aint no anthem.

quote:

Originally posted by sandstorm03 the last time i checked thats what progressive trance is? you know it starts simple, and progresses to a final stage... but all based on the same sounds?

Ah, but that's not the same. An anthem can start off with the full centric melody (Children for example) and play it for the bulk of a track. Progressive isbuilt around the theme of progression, and the use of the melody is to emphasise that theme, where as anthem trance is about everything to emphasise the melody itself.

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Balls EXCUSE ME But doesn't anthem mean something popular within its genre.??? A song can be structure around a main melody but if it sucks it aint no anthem.

thats true. and tracks can have one main lead melody but doesnt necessarily mean its cheesey.

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Balls EXCUSE ME But doesn't anthem mean something popular within its genre.??? A song can be structure around a main melody but if it sucks it aint no anthem.

An anthem is an anthem regardless of popularity. Popular tracks are often referred to as anthems, but that's in regard to their cultural or contextual significance rather than their actual composition.

quote:

Originally posted by dj tek thats true. and tracks can have one main lead melody but doesnt necessarily mean its cheesey.

Right.

who said something is cheesey if it had one main lead synth??

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J An anthem is an anthem regardless of popularity. Popular tracks are often referred to as anthems, but that's in regard to their cultural or contextual significance rather than their actual composition.

OK. The term cheesey is used in regard to its cultural or contextual significance rather than actual composition.


why the fuck are we taking about the actual songs compostion. That's not the definition of cheese.

alrighty, more stuff to reply to,

First, Sand Leaper, I am having trouble finding your answer to my question, mainly because there are a lot of pages to scan for it, a small recapitulation would be helpful.

As far as emulating S&D and being cheesy, I'm not referring to Dave Seaman and Chris Fortier in particular as cheezy. I was mainly referring to lesser knowns that I hear on the streams, the productions coming out, and the genre's that are getting the most play time at the parties I have been going to.

Like the army of tunes that have been ADD sound-alikes.

Or how a track that S&D played can be heard on proton radio almost hourly.

I agree that nobody well known is perfectly emulating the S&D style, doing such a thing would be quite challenging, but having heard the recent CD's and broadcasts from S&D, I am really noticing alot of stuff that has been done since then that is going for that same mood and using the same tactics to get there, which is called cheesy when trancers do it, but brilliant and forward movement when others do it.

Anthemic:

Paul Van Dyk - Were Alive
Storm - Time To Burn (yes a tad cheesy )
DT8 Project - Sun Is Shining Down
Candee Jay - If i Were You (Michael Woods Remix)

anthemic basically imo is tracks that are easy to rember stick in many peoples heads and can be sung along to whilst being slight cheesy and known by everyone.

Classics:

Push - Universal Nation
System F - Out Of The Blue
Solar Stone - Seven Cities
CRW - I Feel Love

Classics known by the more into the genre but still accesible for the more commercial, the more commercial may have heard the track but not know the title unlike they know the anthems.

i.e they may would know storm - time to burn by name but when they hear crw - i feel love they would say that track off kevin & perry.

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Balls Right. whoever said something is cheesey if it had one main lead synth??

i think system-j did in his previous post...

and i disagree that anthem is an anthem regardless of popularity.... if they tried to go for the anthemic feel and has failed, its not an anthem, its just shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 First, Sand Leaper, I am having trouble finding your answer to my question, mainly because there are a lot of pages to scan for it, a small recapitulation would be helpful.

You made a point regarding this problem that answered the question you posed. Big genre figurehead sets the scene -> legion of genre massive emulates. That's pretty much the same thing that has happened with Tony de Vit and the hard house figures coming after him. It sounded good and original when TdV championed it, but not now after being emulated so many times.

(Disclaimer: I don't know what hard house sounds like so well nowadays, this was merely to illustrate his arguement. There may have been lots of development within the genre by now, as I'm sure the influx of techno vibes from artists like Guy McAffer has helped contribute to.)

People use the word Cheese like the use the word anthem.


Anthem means something popular within its genre.

Cheese means something like this ( http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=247033&perpage=12&pagenumber=11 )

quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper It sounded good and original when TdV championed it, but not now after being emulated so many times.

Exactly !!!

It's a simple construct. Anthem has two meanings. Either describing a subgenre of a genre that is above average in that one or more of its defining components are relatively more "overblown" than most of the rest of the genre, or it means a really popular track from a genre. That is the difference between a Trance anthem and Anthem Trance.

nice disclaimer, I havent followed hard house too well since a couple years ago, so I wouldnt know either

(if anyone is in the know about teh hardhouse and something good is happening, then please say something, cuz I used to enjoy it alot)

It seems to me that some sounds are more acceptable to recycle than others, at least according to the general opinion in these parts.

I think the scale to which certain elements of music are over-used is different depending on where a person lives. I find in my area that what I call "the sleepy baseline" is the most over used sound. That up and down snoring kind of sound that plays non stop in any given markus shulz set is a good example of this sleepy bass line.

Still, kids are eating up this dark progressive nonsense like it was invented yesterday, but you don't find many people calling that cheesy.

Another one that I get tired of is the "amen break". I don't understand how kids can enjoy hearing this same beat for entire nights week after week, accopanied by the same roaring bass synths, with different little hih pitched sounds on top of it. But I dare not call DnB cheesy, because I might get shot, especially if the party was in Durham.

Kids come from these other styles to here and start talking like their shit never stinks, but I can smell it, and it smells like cheese!

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 I think the scale to which certain elements of music are over-used is different depending on where a person lives. I find in my area that what I call "the sleepy baseline" is the most over used sound. That up and down snoring kind of sound that plays non stop in any given markus shulz set is a good example of this sleepy bass line. Still, kids are eating up this dark progressive nonsense like it was invented yesterday, but you don't find many people calling that cheesy.

People do call it cheesey !! It's just that the cheese balls out number the non-cheese balls.

JEESUS this thread is going nowhere. With all these ambiguous definitions of cheese, you guys should load Sasha and Digweed's first Renaissance mix collection and do a nice review on that. It has the same basic elements as repetition and even melody. Its cheese???

The thing is that no one will ever be right. Its a matter of perception and experience. There is no rightful definition of cheese.

For those of you not even out of highschool... you have alot to learn.

quote:

Originally posted by vhx1 JEESUS this thread is going nowhere. With all these ambiguous definitions of cheese, you guys should load Sasha and Digweed's first Renaissance mix collection and do a nice review on that. It has the same basic elements as repetition and even melody. Its cheese??? The thing is that no one will ever be right. Its a matter of perception and experience. There is no rightful definition of cheese. For those of you not even out of highschool... you have alot to learn.

the difference is that s & d made renaissance cause its good music, and what they like, yes it has some vocals, some bad, some good, but they didn't make it for mtv...

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 I think the scale to which certain elements of music are over-used is different depending on where a person lives.

Well that's a major issue you've highlighted.

Think about tracks as sort of existing somewhere on a two dimensional plane for simplicity.

Where tracks that are similar appear closer together, and tracks that are dissimilar have larger distances between them.

As a producer makes a new track, it will either appear close to previous locations, or it will exist in a new area that is "empty". As soon as a track appears in an otherwise empty area then that area will be "poppulated" by similar tracks as that sound space is explored.

The issue then for your own ears is this: Do you like that sound space? And if you like it, how much exploration in that sound space can you tolerate before it becomes tiresome?

Everyone's answers to those two questions will be different.

The problem arises then when people are intolerant of other people's personal acceptance of a musical space. For someone who enjoys a musical space, the differences that appear minimal between the tracks within that space are magnified // for someone who is is tired of a musical space then the differences between tracks collapses.

quote:

Originally posted by Subey The problem arises then when people are intolerant of other people's personal acceptance of a musical space. For someone who enjoys a musical space, the differences that appear minimal between the tracks within that space are magnified // for someone who is is tired of a musical space then the differences between tracks collapses.

so true...

if someone even mention the words hip hop on hear they get replies along the lines of....its all the same, fake gangsta shit and nigga this nigga that. But if you listen its infact very good its just as you dont like it you have a htred for it.

quote:

Originally posted by JakeC But if you listen its infact very good its just as you dont like it you have a htred for it.

I dont understand, thats your opinion not a fact

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