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-- Roll Call: TOTA Atheist Thread
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quote:

Originally posted by Espresso sorry it's not my view of spiritualty it's the definition of the word spirtuality.the new age cult hijacks religious terms and uses them in their own-defined context: words like spirit, self realization, devine, celestial, and so on are all defined in religious context and have a very specific meaning. now if new age ppl want to borrow them, alienate them from their original meaning and use them, well their just fooling themsleves, they are religious terms. why don't they invent words that describe their beliefs (in the non relgious context)? with all respect, you can believe whatever you want to, but what you claim is a theory with nothing to back it, and also it's unfortunately irrelavent to my original post, since i claimed that spirtuality pertains to religion and hence one can not claim to be spritual but not religious.you're taliking about god and energy, what's that to do with "spirit" or "soul"? energy is a form of matter , for your information, spirit and soul are not. what's the source and nature of this energy you talk about? what form does it posses? is it light, heat, nuclear energy? how and when was it created? who controls this energy? can we measure it? could we merge negatively thanks for your concerns, but i'm familiar with the concepts of the new age movement, it's based on borrowing religious concepts and using every possible way to explain them , with focus on avoiding to call it religion (FYI all the concepts you mentioned here about union of energy are borrowed from hiduism Vedanta: the puruna and prakshati in the Opanishads, they've been renamed and simplified so modern man can understand it , thanks to Carl Gustav Yung!). if i need to know about the universe i'll go straight to the source, not a second hand digested version. hope that explains.

Though you believe that you are familiar with the concept of new age...you do not have a full understanding of it yet. New age is not a theory that needs to be backed up. It is a way of life. It is a strive to communicate and live a happier existance amongst each other.

Spirituality does not pertain to religion. Religion made spirituality pertain to it. It is your perception that is having a hard time understanding this difference...and I did not say I believed in a God. I said I respected those that believed in a God and prefer not to challenge their beliefs, in order to draw from their experiences.

About my energy...it is what I feel when I meet people or what I feel when I am in a particular situation/place. I know what feels right and what feels wrong. We all have that ability. Whatever you want to call it, it is a feeling that draws me closer or farther away.
Example: Haven't you ever been in a room and decided that you must speak to that person tonight or been in a situation where you've felt that something is not right or that something wrong will happen. These are examples of positive and negative energy. We all posses this ability. Some just choose to ignore that inner feeling.

As to your specific questions: "how and when was it created?" Why do u feel the need to question what is naturally in you...why does it even matter...I was born with it. We are all born with it. Just accept it. "who controls this energy?" I do...it comes from within. I either allow it to come into me and affect me or I don't allow it to. "can we measure it?" Why do you need to...it's not as if you can measure everything in life. And what will you accomplish by measuring it. "could we merge negatively" of course we can...we're doing that now. Obstinate behaviour is a form of negative energy.

BTW so that we are clear, I don't borrow religious concepts. I don't need to. I follow what my inner voice tells me is right and what is wrong. I also explain energy in terms that others understand. Since most can only understand religious words then I use that to describe our feelings and experiences rather than needlessly create new words that will confuse.
Perhaps it's best that you read the first 2 books of the Celestial Prophecy to gain a better understanding of what I am trying to describe. Though many religions have denounced the book, it is definately worth the read.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie You're all going to Hell.

I tried to find this "Club Hell." I fuckn looked around forever, then i finally asked someone... turns out it doesnt exist! gah!

quote:

Originally posted by b4k-oz Though you believe that you are familiar with the concept of new age...you most definately are not. New age is not a theory that needs to be backed up. It is a way of life. It is a strive to communicate and live a happier existance amongst each other. Spirituality does not pertain to religion. Religion made spirituality pertain to it. It is your perception that is having a hard time understanding this difference...and I did not say I believed in a God. I said I respected those that believed in a God and prefer not to challenge their beliefs, in order to draw from their experiences. About my energy...it is what I feel when I meet people or what I feel when I am in a particular sitation/place. I know what feels right and what feels wrong. We all have that ability. Whatever you want to call it, it is a feeling that draws me closer or farther away. Example: Haven't you ever been in a room and decided that you must speak to that person tonight or been in a situation where you've felt that something is not right or that something wrong will happen. These are examples of positive and negative energy. We all posses this ability. Some just choose to ignore that inner feeling. As to your specific questions: "how and when was it created?" Why do u feel the need to question what is naturally in you...why does it even matter...I was born with it. We are all born with it. Just accept it. "who controls this energy?" I do...it comes from within. I either allow it to come into me and affect me or I don't allow it to. "can we measure it?" Why do you need to...it's not as if you can measure everything in life. And what will you accomplish by measuring it. "could we merge negatively" of course we can...we're doing that now. Obstinate behaviour is a form of negative energy. BTW so that we are clear, I don't borrow religious concepts. I don't need to. I follow what my inner voice tells me is right and what is wrong. I also explain energy in terms that others understand. Since most can only understand religious words then I use that to describe our feelings and experiences rather than needlessly create new words that will confuse.

with all respect,it's great , and i wish you best luck with your guiding energy (which by the way could be wrong so you might end up in the ditch?!) which you've surrended yourself to and completely trust a vague thing which you can't even define! ("I follow what my inner voice tells me is right"? where is this inner voice located? inner meaning inside the body? mind? well Schizofrens do the same thing and end up doing crazy things, doesn't mean we can trust what we hear)
i just want to know when you're dead drunk, or wasted, if your "inner voice" tels you to kill someone, or steal or do something really fucked up, how are you going to control it? since it's not clear where it comes from? and when you're wasted your brains are not going to function properly!! how can you judge with a dysfunctional drunken mind what is "right" and what is wrong?

not good guidance if you ask me

and i didn't say you borrow, i cleary stated "new age cult" borrows it.
you seem to make big claims like "Spirituality does not pertain to religion. Religion made spirituality pertain to it" which is not true, because you overlook my reasoning and logic about the abuse of the term "spirtuality" and come up with vague definitions.and then again where did this "spiritually" come from? i mean historically? can't come from new age ppl, because as far as i know it was around since religion was around! so if you claim spiriutality is independent from religion answer my question.
and regarding new age, well, i'm sorry! but i think there's no point in continuing this debate as you don't seem to know what you are talking about!
if you cared to check it out though, please check the history of the new age link
maybe that would help you understand that your definition of new age is totally personal and madeup and worst it's wrong!

LOL...have you realized you have a superiority complex? You should look after those issues.
Firstly, I don't get drunk or wasted. Never have and never will...and I can safely say that there is no mental illness in my family...but then I was never talking about killing people like you were. Wow, it's no wonder you can't understand anything I've said...cuz u have no respect for others beliefs and that negative outlook on life must be a stressful thing to carry around all day long.
When I said I try to live a righteous life, I meant that I know the difference with the obvious rights and wrongs of the world. I know not to steal, kill etc. etc.....I'm sorry if you can't understand this but I'm especially sorry u feel bitter towards me for not feeling the need to justify myself to you.
I suspect a person of your character doesn't need my input in your life...you seem to know it all...and for you everything must be found in a book (it obviously was never preconcieved and then written down)...why it must be like you said "I don't know what I'm talking about" thank you for enlightening me. I'm sure your disdainful communication skills must win you lots of friends and earn you much respect. Way to go.
Neways...whatever it is that your looking for in life I hope you find it. That is assuming that you know what your looking for in your life?

quote:

Originally posted by Espresso with all respect,it's great , and i wish you best luck with your guiding energy (which by the way could be wrong so you might end up in the ditch?!) which you've surrended yourself to and completely trust a vague thing which you can't even define! ("I follow what my inner voice tells me is right"? where is this inner voice located? inner meaning inside the body? mind? well Schizofrens do the same thing and end up doing crazy things, doesn't mean we can trust what we hear) i just want to know when you're dead drunk, or wasted, if your "inner voice" tels you to kill someone, or steal or do something really fucked up, how are you going to control it? since it's not clear where it comes from? and when you're wasted your brains are not going to function properly!! how can you judge with a dysfunctional drunken mind what is "right" and what is wrong? not good guidance if you ask me and i didn't say you borrow, i cleary stated "new age cult" borrows it. you seem to make big claims like "Spirituality does not pertain to religion. Religion made spirituality pertain to it" which is not true, because you overlook my reasoning and logic about the abuse of the term "spirtuality" and come up with vague definitions.and then again where did this "spiritually" come from? i mean historically? can't come from new age ppl, because as far as i know it was around since religion was around! so if you claim spiriutality is independent from religion answer my question. and regarding new age, well, i'm sorry! but i think there's no point in continuing this debate as you don't seem to know what you are talking about! if you cared to check it out though, please check the history of the new age link maybe that would help you understand that your definition of new age is totally personal and madeup and worst it's wrong!

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Cayce Read this and think b4 u post

Actually I've read it...and I've heard of EC and his organization before. I suppose it's all subject to each individuals interpretations.
There are no negatives in the link you posted. As a matter of fact it even says in it "it is generally agreed that Cayce was thus not likely a conscious fraud."

Now why would you want to make Cacey out to be a villain? Why does it bother you that much when someone exists that may have helped others. Why can you not accept that there are people who help others?

quote:

Originally posted by b4k-oz Actually I've read it...and I've heard of EC and his organization before. I suppose it's all subject to each individuals interpretations. There are no negatives in the link you posted. As a matter of fact it even says in it "it is generally agreed that Cayce was thus not likely a conscious fraud." Now why would you want to make Cacey out to be a villain? Why does it bother you that much when someone exists that may have helped others. Why can you not accept that there are people who help others?

Im not making cayce to look like a villian. Im showing you that he was an opportunist that, like religious figures, had influence over simple minded gullible people.

How is this man evidence that a devine god exists? You were trying to validate him as a some special person to show that indeed.. since he was so "psychic" (which he wasnt), us atheists have nothing to say with respect to his "powers", and since its "unexplainable" he is somehow touched by divinity

im an atheist.
religion was created to make ppl feel better about themselves, give them hope and so on. its not a bad thing but believeing shit blindly and then arguing based on those believes is wrong tho.

quote:

Originally posted by timmyboy im an atheist. religion was created to make ppl feel better about themselves, give them hope and so on.

You said it man. im *sure* we've had this discussion before. in large, (IMHO) i believe thats why ppl are so eager to and do follow religion... its comforting knowing that when u die that ull live on in heaven... its easier to get ppl to act a certain way (like dont covet ur neighbours wife or dont kill ppl) if they are faced w/ the possibility of hell if they dont act as they should... its nice knowing if bad shit happens to u, its not ur fault or its not just the randomness (and unfairness?) of the universe and life, but its whut god wants to happen (we cannot know his ways)...

meh, thats just the way i see things in this matter...

~Jem~

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Im not making cayce to look like a villian. Im showing you that he was an opportunist that, like religious figures, had influence over simple minded gullible people. How is this man evidence that a devine god exists? You were trying to validate him as a some special person to show that indeed.. since he was so "psychic" (which he wasnt), us atheists have nothing to say with respect to his "powers", and since its "unexplainable" he is somehow touched by divinity

Actually, it wasn't I that was suggesting EC is evidence that a devine god exists. However, I did not agree when you described him as a "crack head" and a "fucking moron". He is neither. His words and contributions are very well respected and his persona has always been that of a humble helper and not as someone that is touched by divinity.

I suppose that to some, he may appear to be touched by divinity...but his organization has never stated this.

Re: Roll Call: TOTA Atheist Thread

quote:

Originally posted by Jem_hadar I was thinking about this on the way home from werk last night... and then I just saw amb_'s gay thread, so I though, heck yes! why not? So how many of you TOTAs are actually atheists? Especially in those gay marriage threads, I know ive stumbled into more than a couple of yall. Let us see who we all are...

Add me to the aetheist list

Re: Re: Roll Call: TOTA Atheist Thread

quote:

Originally posted by MattVagrant Add me to the aetheist list

Very happy to do so. Welcome offically to the TOTA Atheist ranks!

Cheers... we got an awesome crew already forming here. Thats so fantastic!

Glad to be aware of yall!

~Jem~

Re: Re: Re: Roll Call: TOTA Atheist Thread

quote:

Originally posted by Jem_hadar Very happy to do so. Welcome offically to the TOTA Atheist ranks! Cheers... we got an awesome crew already forming here. Thats so fantastic! Glad to be aware of yall! ~Jem~

No offense but this looks like some exclusive "clique"

Whats next? Athiest Alliance in your sigs?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Roll Call: TOTA Atheist Thread

quote:

Originally posted by infinity HiGH No offense but this looks like some exclusive "clique" Whats next? Athiest Alliance in your sigs?

Its just good to know fellow atheists... nice to know there are others out there.

its not a clique... its a list of who happens to be an atheist. nothing more nothing less. its not like we're gonna start throwing atheist parties and not invite godblievers. and besides, atheist organizations do exist.. there are a great many in the US (our pseudo-equivalents to churches)

Well, there could very well be an "Atheist Alliance" in my sig.. who knows, i already have the Wite Wifebeater Alliance supporting going ace, and now we have a logo for our Double Fisters Alliance... this is the same deal, only a different theme

~jem~

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Do you think it was a miracle that "mother mary's" image was on a piece of toast? By the way.. the people you mentioned in your post are probably crack heads like that loser "sylvia browne" who frequents Montel Williams and gives "psychic" anserws like "hes in heaven with god", "there will be an explosion in AMerica soon" fucking morons

First off, no, I don't believe the piece of toast was anything worth even paying attention to.

Next, calling the people I listed crack heads shows nothing but disrespect to people who have helped thousands. Until you can prove these people to be frauds, which would go against thousands of first hand experiences which were documented, don't comment with such stupidness. You're telling me that whoever Edgar Cayce helped really never was sick and just made everything up? I'm sure that 40 000 cases were all just made up right? And don't ever call him an opportunist, the man never charged money for his readings and never set out to make a profit. Nor was he some evangelist trying to scheme people. He was just like the rest of us and never asked for the gift he was given.

Tell me, would any of you atheists, if you had the chance, go and actually talk to Slyvia Browne and see for yourself whether she's for real or not? Or would you just brush off the opportunity for fear that maybe she would prove you wrong and shatter your current belief system and view of this life? I personally don't find athiests as open-minded as some of them claim, because keeping a mind open to the possibly of a supernatural and spiritual world isn't that far fetched.

It's funny how some of these solid examples of the supernatural exist yet the typical responce when addressed with these are: "ya, padre pio and edgar cayce must have been frauds, etc etc etc" without anyone ever being able to prove it and just ignoring facts from thousands of people who experienced these "gifted people" first hand.

And if im coming across as being disrespectful or anything like that to atheists, im not. But just as many atheists question religious or spiritual people, I question atheism, and try to put up solid arguements against it when fairly recent examples, and not just something wrote in a book thousands of years ago.

IMO god is something that humans have created to give humans hope and a false sense of security that someone is watching over them and is always there for them ...

however what i have begun to develop an interest in is the practice of buddhism ... it doesnt require you to beleive in god or anything else for that matter rather just in the power of the universe ... ive met several ppl who got into the practice and experienced miracles that defy common thinking ... this one guy a lil younger than me dropped out of school for 2 years since he couldnt pass math practiced for 6 months on the request of his parents came back and aced his exams ... lotta ppl have had medical and family problems also solved after getting into the practice ... ive tried practicing but ive been to lazy but i intend to get serious ...

i guess at the end of the day it boils down to what you beleive in... everyone needs to have faith in something to move ahead in life ... i dont mock people who beleive in god because maybe they see and feel something about their faith that i dont

Hey guys... I haven't posted in a couple of days, and since you've generated some interesting discussion, I'll reply to it here.

There are a lot of misconceptions going on here. ATHEIST DOES NOT MEAN NON-RELIGIOUS. IT MEANS NO BELIEF IN GOD.

First off, with respect to religion and spirituality, we need a couple of definitions:

A religion is comprised of two things: a set of beliefs, and a set of ideals. People who are part of the same religion share the same set of beliefs about how the universe works, and man's relationship with the universe. They also share a set of ideals - principles governing how they should live their lives (usually in effort to live in accord with the principles of the universe).

THEISM is the belief in god. There are many definitions of what god can be, but most people have a basic understanding. Depending on your beliefs, a god may or may not have certain properties, such as being "all-powerful", "all-knowing", "benevolent", etc.

There are two types of Theism: Polytheism is the belief in more than one god (ancient Greek and Hinduism are examples of polytheistic religions), and monotheism is belief in one god (Christianity, Islam, etc).

There is also ATHEISM... ie the opposite of Theism - a belief in no god. SOME RELIGIONS CAN BE ATHEISTIC. For example, some researchers believe that Buddhism is an Atheistic religion, because it doesn't state the existance of a higher power with god-like properties; instead it explains how all forms of life are connected. There are still beliefs (ie all life is connected, all humans are part of one spirit, if you do bad things to others then you're hurting yourself, etc) and there are still ideals by which buddhists live their lives (learn to be aware and respectful of others, be kind to others and yourself, etc).

MAJOR RELIGIONS are defined by the fact that they have many followers that share the same beliefs. A belief shared by 5 people is not a religion in the eyes of Canadian law. I think 500 followers is needed (but don't quote me on that). For example, it is legal to have policies against wearing hats in a public place, except for religious or medical reasons, but I can't declare that I'm an "Elyot-hat-ist" in order to wear my baseball cap in school. Doesn't work that way. Christianity is a religion; Elyot-hat-ism isn't.

There are many, many people who are Theists but don't live their lives according the beliefs and ideals of a major religion. A lot of people in here claim to be so, and you guys aren't alone. You can still be spiritual (kind of a half-assed way of saying that you're a theist; ie a believer in god), but not necessarily subscribing to one major religion doesn't make you an atheist.

I admire people who develop their own person beliefs and live by them instead of just following what the church tells them to do.

Also, I should mention that it takes a lot more then just theism or atheism to define how you view the universe. Atheists can still believe in life after death, karma, etc... they just don't believe in GOD.

Here's a bit more detailed outline of my beliefs (beyond just believing in NO GOD):

I strictly believe in the scientific principals behind life... I believe that humans are no different than animals and that when we die, we are eaten by worms with nothing more to come. I surrender to the fact that I don't really know why I'm here, and never definitively will, but I don't believe any intelligent or all-knowing deity is responsible for my existance. I don't believe in souls or even in free will, and I believe that every human being is at the mercy of the chemical reactions and electric signals that power his brain. I believe in determinism, which means that there is exactly one possible outcome for every event based on the conditions leading up to that even (see bohmian mechanics for a scientific description), but this belief differs from a belief in fate (which is a belief that one's future is controlled by destiny... determinism is like fate without purpose or intelligence).

So there's my beliefs... I'd love to hear more about other people's beliefs. Even though we are all atheists, I'm sure we have many, many varying opinions about how the universe works. 10 atheists talking about their beliefs is like 10 theists talking about their beliefs - jews, christians, and hindus certainly don't share exactly the same beliefs by any means, but their belief in a god or gods is what unites them.

I hope this wasn't too unbearably long. I'll post another one about religion and wars later. Religion is really a side-effect of more complicated causes. The relationship is actually very interesting...

quote:

Originally posted by DJ_Elyot Hey guys... I haven't posted in a couple of days, and since you've generated some interesting discussion, I'll reply to it here. There are a lot of misconceptions going on here. ATHEIST DOES NOT MEAN NON-RELIGIOUS. IT MEANS NO BELIEF IN GOD. First off, with respect to religion and spirituality, we need a couple of definitions: A religion is comprised of two things: a set of beliefs, and a set of ideals. People who are part of the same religion share the same set of beliefs about how the universe works, and man's relationship with the universe. They also share a set of ideals - principles governing how they should live their lives (usually in effort to live in accord with the principles of the universe). THEISM is the belief in god. There are many definitions of what god can be, but most people have a basic understanding. Depending on your beliefs, a god may or may not have certain properties, such as being "all-powerful", "all-knowing", "benevolent", etc. There are two types of Theism: Polytheism is the belief in more than one god (ancient Greek and Hinduism are examples of polytheistic religions), and monotheism is belief in one god (Christianity, Islam, etc). There is also ATHEISM... ie the opposite of Theism - a belief in no god. SOME RELIGIONS CAN BE ATHEISTIC. For example, some researchers believe that Buddhism is an Atheistic religion, because it doesn't state the existance of a higher power with god-like properties; instead it explains how all forms of life are connected. There are still beliefs (ie all life is connected, all humans are part of one spirit, if you do bad things to others then you're hurting yourself, etc) and there are still ideals by which buddhists live their lives (learn to be aware and respectful of others, be kind to others and yourself, etc). MAJOR RELIGIONS are defined by the fact that they have many followers that share the same beliefs. A belief shared by 5 people is not a religion in the eyes of Canadian law. I think 500 followers is needed (but don't quote me on that). For example, it is legal to have policies against wearing hats in a public place, except for religious or medical reasons, but I can't declare that I'm an "Elyot-hat-ist" in order to wear my baseball cap in school. Doesn't work that way. Christianity is a religion; Elyot-hat-ism isn't. There are many, many people who are Theists but don't live their lives according the beliefs and ideals of a major religion. A lot of people in here claim to be so, and you guys aren't alone. You can still be spiritual (kind of a half-assed way of saying that you're a theist; ie a believer in god), but not necessarily subscribing to one major religion doesn't make you an atheist. I admire people who develop their own person beliefs and live by them instead of just following what the church tells them to do. Also, I should mention that it takes a lot more then just theism or atheism to define how you view the universe. Atheists can still believe in life after death, karma, etc... they just don't believe in GOD. Here's a bit more detailed outline of my beliefs (beyond just believing in NO GOD): I strictly believe in the scientific principals behind life... I believe that humans are no different than animals and that when we die, we are eaten by worms with nothing more to come. I surrender to the fact that I don't really know why I'm here, and never definitively will, but I don't believe any intelligent or all-knowing deity is responsible for my existance. I don't believe in souls or even in free will, and I believe that every human being is at the mercy of the chemical reactions and electric signals that power his brain. I believe in determinism, which means that there is exactly one possible outcome for every event based on the conditions leading up to that even (see bohmian mechanics for a scientific description), but this belief differs from a belief in fate (which is a belief that one's future is controlled by destiny... determinism is like fate without purpose or intelligence). So there's my beliefs... I'd love to hear more about other people's beliefs. Even though we are all atheists, I'm sure we have many, many varying opinions about how the universe works. 10 atheists talking about their beliefs is like 10 theists talking about their beliefs - jews, christians, and hindus certainly don't share exactly the same beliefs by any means, but their belief in a god or gods is what unites them. I hope this wasn't too unbearably long. I'll post another one about religion and wars later. Religion is really a side-effect of more complicated causes. The relationship is actually very interesting...

That post feels like a massive and needed breath of fresh air. Too long? Indeed not man!

Im heading out from work now, but Ill post what exactly I subscribe to once I get a second tonight or tomrrow.

That was a fantastic post and im glad you decided to take the time to post it here! Really, i like the way you tried to explain a whole shit load of facts and from a neutral sounding stand point.

Cheers ~Jem~

quote:

Originally posted by Jem_hadar That was a fantastic post and im glad you decided to take the time to post it here! Really, i like the way you tried to explain a whole shit load of facts and from a neutral sounding stand point. Cheers ~Jem~

I just try to be tolerant. I think everyone needs to work on that, both atheist and theist. Atheists get annoyed at theists who blindly place their lives into the hands of a set of unjustified beliefs and ideals, but that's no worse than an atheist who simply denies the existance of god because they've never seen it with their own eyes.

It's unfair, and in fact a logical fallacy, to discount the beliefs of others out of ignorance. If you're an atheist, like myself, then maybe you should examine why 3/4 of the world disagrees with you (3/4 being an unjustified, blindly-guessed, meaningless numerical figure).

Unicorn fallacies work both ways. Somebody who has never seen a unicorn cannot claim that one exists, but I can't claim that unicorns don't exist just because I've never seen them either. There simply exists the possibility that unicorns exist, and the argument can never be won by either side when argued from strictly sensual knowledge.

Note that my use of the verb "see" in the above paragraph refers acquiring any direct or indirect sensual evidence of any kind. ie: if I found unicorn fossils or unicorn tracks or something, then perhaps that would constitute sensual data that would support the existance of unicorns.

I don't doubt the stories of Edgar Cayce and such (I really haven't researched them enough to form my own opinion), but they still don't prove the existance of god. An atheist can still believe in Edgar Cayce's powers of astral projection without contradiction. In fact, meditation is practiced by many zen buddhists, who don't believe in god (at least not in the sense that western religions do).

quote:

Originally posted by Chris T. Dot First off, no, I don't believe the piece of toast was anything worth even paying attention to.

But what could have made that devine shape?? It MUST have been GOD!!!!!!!

quote:

Next, calling the people I listed crack heads shows nothing but disrespect to people who have helped thousands. Until you can prove these people to be frauds, which would go against thousands of first hand experiences which were documented, don't comment with such stupidness. You're telling me that whoever Edgar Cayce helped really never was sick and just made everything up? I'm sure that 40 000 cases were all just made up right? And don't ever call him an opportunist, the man never charged money for his readings and never set out to make a profit. Nor was he some evangelist trying to scheme people. He was just like the rest of us and never asked for the gift he was given.

Please read the wikipedia link i posted up and then see what is thought of the man. There were many gullible people in the 50's, and prior to that. THe majority of the people back then couldnt fathom the fact that we were from the same lineage as apes. Out of all the explanations that can be used to describe how casey came up with his answers (whether right or wrong) is the SOLE one that he was "gifted" with powers????

Give me a break

quote:

Tell me, would any of you atheists, if you had the chance, go and actually talk to Slyvia Browne and see for yourself whether she's for real or not? Or would you just brush off the opportunity for fear that maybe she would prove you wrong and shatter your current belief system and view of this life? I personally don't find athiests as open-minded as some of them claim, because keeping a mind open to the possibly of a supernatural and spiritual world isn't that far fetched. It's funny how some of these solid examples of the supernatural exist yet the typical responce when addressed with these are: "ya, padre pio and edgar cayce must have been frauds, etc etc etc" without anyone ever being able to prove it and just ignoring facts from thousands of people who experienced these "gifted people" first hand.

I cant even beelive that you would make the assumption that she is actually "gifted" with powers that would "shatter" our beleif system.

This woman is a fuckin joke. I watch montel williams when shes on it just to LAUGH at her and her generalized answers.

For example. A woman (a stupid one like the rest of the audience was) asked a question about her father who used to be a teacher. "What was he doing in heaven"?.. she asked. Sylvia's answer was "hes up their teaching the children that come into heaven"

AHHAHAHHHAHAHA... What a CROCK OF SHIIIIIIIIIIIIITE!!!!!!!

Or how about this one

"Sylvia.. i was driving my car one day and a bullet flew into the back area of my car where my daughter was sitting. It should have hit her head but it didnt. Later that day.. my little daughter said she saw something when the window shattered.. she said she saw an....."

And before the woman could finish her comment Sylvia says "An angel"

And the woman starts to get teary eyed and says "yes.... an angel.... thank you "

AHHAHHAHAHAHHAH.... honestly... humans are so dumb. No wonder religion has survived so long.

Hrm...

I don't believe in one all powerful being, and I personally find most organized religion a big turn off. I do however have much respect for the convictions of other people, as long as they don't use their religion as a means to persecute and infringe on the beliefs and wellbeing of others. Unfortunately religion is filled with contradictions, so asking for such a thing is apparently asking too much. And besides, who am I to decide what is right or wrong, etc? Religion is a great conundrum indeed!

I believe if you go through life doing what you honestly feel is right in your heart, you can't go wrong.

If there really is a merciful and forgiving God at the end of the white light, he would understand the great religious dilemma we face. Those who did their utmost to be good people throughout their life would most likely be looked upon favorably.

So, put me down for agnostic I guess... I like the definition:

Agnostic:

1) Somebody who believes that it is impossible to know whether or not God exists.

2) Somebody who doubts that a particular question has a single correct answer or that a complete understanding of something can be attained.

quote:

Originally posted by SurrJRS Hrm... I don't believe in one all powerful being, and I personally find most organized religion a big turn off. I do however have much respect for the convictions of other people, as long as they don't use their religion as a means to persecute and infringe on the beliefs and wellbeing of others. Unfortunately religion is filled with contradictions, so asking for such a thing is apparently asking too much. And besides, who am I to decide what is right or wrong, etc? Religion is a great conundrum indeed! I believe if you go through life doing what you honestly feel is right in your heart, you can't go wrong. If there really is a merciful and forgiving God at the end of the white light, he would understand the great religious dilemma we face. Those who did their utmost to be good people throughout their life would most likely be looked upon favorably. So, put me down for agnostic I guess... I like the definition: Agnostic: 1) Somebody who believes that it is impossible to know whether or not God exists. 2) Somebody who doubts that a particular question has a single correct answer or that a complete understanding of something can be attained.

Awesome! I like your definition for Agnostic. I suppose in a way, I'm Agnostic too. Even though I believe in the power of one's personal energy to bring us happiness which, as I said earlier, is kinda like a New Age belief...I'd have to say that yes...I am agnostic.

OK Jem_hadar I've decided that I fall more into the catagory of Agnostic

quote:

Originally posted by b4k-oz Awesome! I like your definition for Agnostic. I suppose in a way, I'm Agnostic too. Even though I believe in the power of one's personal energy to bring us happiness which, as I said earlier, is kinda like a New Age belief...I'd have to say that yes...I am agnostic.

A very good page defining exactly what an agnostic is, and answering some common questions:

http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/humftp/...ll/agnostic.htm

Also found this interesting:

The Agnostic Church
http://www.agnostic.org/

Agnostic "Bible"
http://www.agnostic.org/httoc.htm

Oh and The Atheist Web is hosted off of infidels.org!

Too funny!

http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/

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