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-- The Perfect Kick - Here's How
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Rough explanation:

Picture a graphical representation of a kick - Large transient (peak) at the start which slowly fades away over time. If someone could do screen shots that would help.
Compression will squeeze everything above threshold (that you set) down in level, so with a fast attack, the transient would come down in level to a similar level of the 'body' of the rest of the wave.

Hope that helps.

The attack time is very critical in setting compression on the kick. If the attack setting is very fast, then more of the kicks attack transient gets attenuated. This really takes the life and punch out of the kick and makes it sound dull and lifeless. You want to open it up a bit and allow some of it thru. You will have to use your ears here. You will notice as you raise the time on the attack from 0ms that the punchiness starts to come back. There is NO hard and fast rule of what attack time to set. It depends on the kick sample and its attack transient. How much you let thru is a matter of taste and what acheives your goal. The initial attack transient of a kick sample is usually the most dynamic part of the signal and what give "punch" to the sound. Ultimately, therefore it's this part that people attenuate to allow a raise in the overall level. But you sacrifice punch. So it's a compromise.

If you really want to add punch you want to increase the level of the attack transient portion in relation to the rest of the sample. You can manually edit the kick sample selecting only say the first 10ms and give it a boost. Try it and see! This also means it will use more headroom in your mix and you sacrifice some level. Thats life. Everthing comes with a cost. Ultimately, what you want is to layer a fast attacky sound with your kick that will give it that initial punch but that doesn't take to much dynamic range also.

(I noticed on the original post of this thread, the attack time of 0ms was suggested. As I've just explained, thats generally wrong. Unless you want dull and lifeless kicks.)

what is notch?

it's a dip at a certain frequency with a small Q

does anyone remember the thread posted a while back that showed how to make kicks using Sound Forge's tone generator and using a couple modulation tricks?

How would i implement this tutorial in fl studio as the cubase/logic output differs from that of Flstudio like the level the samples are imported ect..

Thanks

Anyone ever try creating a kick by abruptly spinning the cutoff filter(LP) from High to Low with the resonance high?? I would like to add I've only tried this with a virus synth and caution its use, test with low levels first.

The result creates an explosive type kick with a big bang (PUNCH). Since the sound contains so many dynamic frequencies you may want to export the recording to a sampler and cut out unwanted freqz so it can fit into a mix. The other advantage of using a sampler is that you can scan every bit of the sample to hear which part contains "the good shit".

Overall, the process was very fast and simple, so much more easier than trial and error processes via kick theories. Than again, everything is easier with a Virus. Test it with different patches and go for explosive results, but watch your levels if you love your monitors.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Hah, why am I not surprised that the n00bs are jumping on me about the definition of trance. Let me guess, you've been listening to it since 2000 or later? Early trance was more like psytrance, minus the Hindi/Israeli influences and a little slower tempo. Anyway, what possible incentive would there be for me to define "trance" as just the music I like? I really don't like a lot of the dark stuff. I find it repetitive as hell. And I have no problem with Euro either - it's a bit syrupy but I'd take E-Type over Britney Spears any day of the week. I'm simply telling the truth about the history of the genre. Everything changed around 1999-2000, when producers finally started making tracks with more commercial appeal, then started drawing in a commercial crowd, which demanded MORE commercial tracks, etc. - it's a vicious circle now, one from which I doubt there is any escape. Some of you probably hate hearing this because for the past few months/years you've been telling yourself how cool you are because you listen to this rare underground music and get sexually aroused when your neighbour yells at you to turn it down. Get over yourselves - not only is it powerfully immature to define yourself based on the music you listen to, but the music is still basically pop music.

Definition of trance?... It's pretty simple mate

"Trance" is just repetetive rythms. It has been around for thousands of years. Indigenous people used it (and uses it) to get in a state of trance, whilst they dance around the fire. That is the reason why the genre was called "trance". The beat was repetitive, and repetitive rythms gets you in a state of trance. Nowadays you can do this together with your host, Armin van Buuren, if you like.


Bump, btw

Im interested in what Psycode is talking about...

..

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Sound Im interested in what Psycode is talking about... ..

dont bother.. it sounds like shiiet.. no good kick ever came from no virus -_-

Can anyone with FL Studio set this up with the native fx?

I did all the settings and it sounds like shit. I have to be doing something wrong unless I've been accidentally producing better kicks for the last few years w/out knowing it.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox Can anyone with FL Studio set this up with the native fx? I did all the settings and it sounds like shit. I have to be doing something wrong unless I've been accidentally producing better kicks for the last few years w/out knowing it.

Like he say's dude, these settings are guidelines, work FROM these not WITH these

hi me again newby, excellent post dave i only just found this site its pretty cool.

Can some one show me what the notch filter q thing looks like . eg post a pic of it or something cheers!

if its what i think it is
ive gone to channel eq on logic lselected 1. under q and gain/slop -18db and freq to 800hz and its spread out in the picture of the wave thinger from 10k to 50hz
please help cheers guys

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja dont bother.. it sounds like shiiet.. no good kick ever came from no virus -_-

that's not entirely true IMHO. It's just a question of synthesis in fact. For what it's worth I remember using a kick from the virus when I had one. Of course you need to add some process too.

As I said before, the best synthesis to make electronic kick drums is FM synthesis as it boasts several envelopes and lets you create exactly and precisely what you want to hear. But you have to make sure that the synth provides a huge pitch amplitude envelope (+-48). AFAIK fm8 and operator do, I don't know about the DX7.

Keep in mind that the 909 kick was based on fm synthesis. the click with variable attack is only possible with FM.

L.

Re: The Perfect Kick - Here's How

quote:

Originally posted by Dave West I've had one or two PMs lately asking me how to get a good Kick sound. This seems to be as a consequence of my questioning the virility of some kicks that are showing up in tracks for review. The sound of these kicks have varied, from light window-tapping to puke hitting the pan of a WC. So here goes. These settings are very, very specific and have taken a lot of time to get right. They work for me, so they might just work for you. If some of the settings seem odd or bizarre, try them first before flaming me saying "That can't be right"...

First time reading this - thank you!

quote:

Originally posted by gerrycueto very good advice... another thing I do to get a good kick is to generate your own bass kick using a descending sine wave or triangle wave under a highpass filtered good quality high endy kick sample... that way you have more control than just EQ and compression... you actually have control where the landing of the kick takes place and exactly what freq range you want it to peirce through the track. I like having more control over my kicks than just using premade samples. As far I see with the posts here, I don't think there is a definitive way of working with kicks in tracks... some kicks need to pound in different frequencies to really stand out... I don't think there is a one-set mixing solution, how the thread suggests. I use similar tactics for kicks but I end up doing something slightly different on each track.

a lot of times i take a kick and run it through extreme distortion and you can start to hear a definative note. try this with a 909 kick. say this note is C. does that mean that the undistorted regular kick sample has the most powerful sound in the C area of its decending pitch? or does this mean that the C note is the average note on the downward slope of the pitch?

quote:

Originally posted by piku303 a lot of times i take a kick and run it through extreme distortion and you can start to hear a definative note. try this with a 909 kick. say this note is C. does that mean that the undistorted regular kick sample has the most powerful sound in the C area of its decending pitch? or does this mean that the C note is the average note on the downward slope of the pitch?

usually it has more to do with the distortion type than with the actual pitch envelope slope.

typically i would change the settings and the same "note" would be heard. are you saying that its possible for a dist. to attentuate a certain frequency in the pitch's slope so much that thats the primary frequency heard? if so then if you tuned the bass drum up and down slightly while keeping the same distortion settings, you would not hear a change in pitch. this is why i thing that distortion attentuates the fundamental, or average of the kicks pitch sound. more people please jump in and commnet, id like to know why distortion brings out an identifiable pitch from a kick. i have heard that when dist. is added to a kick it while turn the kick in to a square wave. this effect is used all the time in hardcore/gabber to make those tuned kicks.

i know this is a bit late but after reading this post, i was impressed by daves extension description of how to help us make a decent kick, then liquid8 just bagged it, what a tosser, imo it may be easier to bag someone than to give some good info himself, now, i would like to see liquid8 giv some helpful "pro" tips of his own to help us out. now i would definitely like to see less people like him on forums like this.
thanks dave west, you make good music, and im sure we all appreciate that.

quote:

Originally posted by Lee Canning i know this is a bit late but after reading this post, i was impressed by daves extension description of how to help us make a decent kick, then liquid8 just bagged it, what a tosser, imo it may be easier to bag someone than to give some good info himself, now, i would like to see liquid8 giv some helpful "pro" tips of his own to help us out. now i would definitely like to see less people like him on forums like this. thanks dave west, you make good music, and im sure we all appreciate that.

Well said mate i didnt like the tone of his comment , its plane to see daves trying to help people like me, if it werent for his guidelines my tune im working on now would probably sound totally whackk, but instead its getting there.
Nice one Dave !

Re: The Perfect Kick - Here's How

Hey there- just have a few questions pertaining to where exactley to find everything your talking about? I'm guessing this was made with Logic 7 in mind so perhaps some things have changed?? I'm new to Logic 8 and have been deep into the manual and other references, but theres a few things that despite my digging are escaping me- not to mention for whatever reason I seem to be awfully confused in general with this post

quote:

Originally posted by Dave West This presumes of course that you have a good quality kick sample to being with, and haven't just recorded granny swatting a fly with a newspaper. Raw 909s are ok, but need layering with another sample which is a bit more sleazy and dirty. Samples MUST be in mono (as should be the bass), otherwise these settings are screwed.

If one is using say the Ultrabeat, which doesnt come in a mono form for example, is there a way to do this? I pulled up a 909 Kit in the EXS24 and that can be set on Mono, but the channel strip still shows a stereo setting- should that change??

quote:

Originally posted by Dave West The input level of the sample should be at 0db or a little less.

Is this supposed to be 0db in the individual channel strip or the master? (I certainly would assume the indi. channel)

quote:

Originally posted by Dave West EQ Use the high-pass filter to roll of frequencies less than 40hz. Use the notch filter at around 800hz

After pulling up the channel eq in the mixer, I'm not seeing anything labled notch filter nor is there in the manual- I saw someone else had a question regarding this as well- Also does one adjust the gain slop as well?


I know everyone probably hates me for this, but I'm really trying to understand because this seems like a great and useful post

quote:

Originally posted by Airyck Sterrett how do I make a kick that sounds like a whiffle ball bat hitting a dead horse?

4 ingredients:
1. Computer / Recording destination
2. Microphone
3. Whiffle ball bat
4. Dead horse

Re: Re: The Perfect Kick - Here's How

quote:

Originally posted by Brandon H Hey there- just have a few questions pertaining to where exactley to find everything your talking about? I'm guessing this was made with Logic 7 in mind so perhaps some things have changed?? I'm new to Logic 8 and have been deep into the manual and other references, but theres a few things that despite my digging are escaping me- not to mention for whatever reason I seem to be awfully confused in general with this post If one is using say the Ultrabeat, which doesnt come in a mono form for example, is there a way to do this? I pulled up a 909 Kit in the EXS24 and that can be set on Mono, but the channel strip still shows a stereo setting- should that change?? Is this supposed to be 0db in the individual channel strip or the master? (I certainly would assume the indi. channel) After pulling up the channel eq in the mixer, I'm not seeing anything labled notch filter nor is there in the manual- I saw someone else had a question regarding this as well- Also does one adjust the gain slop as well? I know everyone probably hates me for this, but I'm really trying to understand because this seems like a great and useful post

if the output of the kick isnt mono, route the instrument track from ultrabeat to a bus and mono the bus. there is no notch filter. you use the channel eq and "notch" out a certain frequency. meaning you only cut that certain frequency and a little around it. if the gain of your kick is at 0 on the channel...then it will be 0 at the mixer. your kick should not be at 0 on the channel because then when you add in other elements of the song youll go over 0 and distort.

This thread is just blabla..

Perfect kick doesnt exist and even if it would it would still be relative.

quote:

Originally posted by nec This thread is just blabla.. Perfect kick doesnt exist and even if it would it would still be relative.

word... but I think this thread more or less covers all kinds of kick drums now? Food & Drink for everyone I mean...

No spam here, so I won't put the link, but for those who check my website, I'm posting tips on there... only kick, snare, clap and hat, but there's more to come.

L.

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