TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Australia
-- [Politics] Has John Howard done a good job?
Pages (8): « 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 »

quote:

Originally posted by S_madis 'The broad-minded see the truth in different religions; the narrow-minded see only the differences' a chinese proverb I stubbled across a while back

haha i wasn't being serious and i don't understand what you just wrote at this time so i can't tell if you are either

nahh dude I know sarcasm when I see it, it was in reference to Paulie's comment.

quote:

Originally posted by Paulie [cue mass generalisation]

Yeah, at least you're honest.

quote:

The current influx of islamic cultures completely go against what migration is about.

And what exactly is migration about, Paulie? Answer that for me, then tell me what it is exactly that the people of the Islamic faith are doing to go "completely against" it?

quote:

They build communities within our community

Meaning what, exactly? People of similar faiths tend to seek out each other's company? Yeah, I'm sure glad that there's no Anglican community, or Lutheran community, or Greek Orthodox Christian community within this country. Could you imagine how divided it would be if that were the case?

quote:

and continually fuel their hate and propoganda to generation after generation.

Yeah, that's strange. All the Muslims I've ever known have actually been caring, rational people. How would they fit into your world-view, do you think?

quote:

They are always out to beat the system

Which means what, exactly?

quote:

and refuse to accept the australian way of life

And what is the "Australian way of life", Paulie? Please define it in such a way that the "genuine" Australians like you and I (given how similar our "genuine" Australian belief systems are) can be included in the definition, and in such a way that our Muslim bretheren cannot be included? What else do "Australians" have in common other than their common obligation to adhere to Australian law?

quote:

Just because my view isnt politically correct pkc doesnt make it wrong or right.

Political correctness has nothing to do with it. You're wrong and you're an idiot.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN roger that. look, i can totally see where youre coming from, and you would certainly be in a geographical region where you would experince more of this than i. and you only need to scan the news to hear of certain things that make you livid with anger. dont get me wrong, im not a politically correct hippie. and we wont go into my strong biases against certain elements of various cultures but im just not sure those in detention are the same people youre describing. obviously i could be wrong. people do all kinds of awful things & are punished by the legal system, getting far less time behind bars. imo something should be done to reduce the length of time they spend inside. but even with legal immigration, bad apples are always going to be in the mix. im certainly not saying youre wrong in this context, but id really need to see some kind of data or evidence that showed a great number of middle easterners fit the generalisation(s) youve made. i know the media just fvcking loves to highlight particular things in all peoples/races/classes in different contexts, and whilst those things obviously have had to occur to be news (you hope), i certainly dont have any idea if thats an adequate representation. i mean, how the fvck can you tell? word. dont get me started on women and their stupid stupid ideas

PKC, i dont need to watch the news... i see it with my own eyes. When my sister goes to school and is told they are no longer allowed to celebrate xmas at school because of other religions, or when i go to the market and a herd of hoodlums, are shouting "fucking slag", "fucking skip" or when i go to the train station and have to look at my toes. Obviously thats what migration is to renegade. Migration to him is about segregation, separating communities from other communities. The majority of them want australia to accomodate for them instead of the other way around. Until that mindset of their changes i couldnt give two hoots.

quote:

Originally posted by Paulie PKC, i dont need to watch the news... i see it with my own eyes. When my sister goes to school and is told they are no longer allowed to celebrate xmas at school because of other religions, or when i go to the market and a herd of hoodlums, are shouting "fucking slag", "fucking skip" or when i go to the train station and have to look at my toes. Obviously thats what migration is to renegade. Migration to him is about segregation, separating communities from other communities. The majority of them want australia to accomodate for them instead of the other way around. Until that mindset of their changes i couldnt give two hoots.

what you're basically saying Paulie is that Muslims are the reason why your sister can't celebrate Xmas at school, Muslims youths are the only group that shout "fucking slag" , "fucking skip" at others in Market places. Muslims have forced you to look at your toes when you walk in train stations. Common champ, this country is one of the most culturally diverse in the entire world and to stigmatise an entire religion/faith completely contradicates your comment of accepting the 'Australian way' of life. Sure I agree, there are bad apples everywhere and maybe in your community/area there are more 'middle eastern' individuals due to place of settlement, but seriously dude the way you go on, suggests that 'every' single Muslim on the face of the earth has a vendetta against the West and society in general. Im not going to sit here talk about how my family is in continuos praise of this country and how ashamed we feel that the disgusting actions of a few, continue to spoil the good work that the rest of us have built, but I will say that if you're going to make generalised comments, at least do some reading and have some knowledge about the topic you discuss. I dont want to change your view/opinion I couldn't care less what you think, it's people like you I stay away from my entire life, because I know that at the end of the day, no matter what good I do by you, you will always judge me because I associate myself with Islam.

my personal experience with muslims is pretty much what paulie described.

SMadis, im scum you dont want to know me anyway.

you said it champ

s_madis you never fail to impress.

Paulie when you get a sec check it out, they've got TV in COLOUR now. No, I'm being serious! Yes, for free!

quote:

Originally posted by Fpcookie my personal experience with muslims is pretty much what paulie described.

vote one nation for a better Australia

quote:

Originally posted by S_madis vote one nation for a better Australia

Its ok, well just vote for Johnny.

i cant beleive you guys are arguing about politics. fuck, you're a bunch of losers.

quote:

Originally posted by DaveBegic i cant beleive you guys are arguing about politics. fuck, you're a bunch of losers.

now, davey, please go outside or play in your room while the adults are talking.

yeah cause you all sound so mature when you debate about this stuff

youve got me there!!

quote:

Originally posted by Paulie Its ok, well just vote for Johnny.

quote:

Originally posted by Paulie [cue mass generalisation] The current influx of islamic cultures completely go against what migration is about. They build communities within our community, and continually fuel their hate and propoganda to generation after generation. They are always out to beat the system, and refuse to accept the australian way of life [/mass generalisation]

rally the troops George W!

thousands of innocent people die everyday and here this bloke is crying because his sister can't have a Xmas party at school

S_madis the war on so called terrorism and immigration are two different topics.


War is pointless, is a waste of human life, much like capital punishment for smuggling a couple pills or a cpl grams of heroin. There is no winner in war so i dont know where your getting at...

wow that got out of hand pretty fast

i am no expert on this subject, but bringing religion into any kind of political discussion is like chasing the horizon. i think one of the major difficulties some australians have is adjusting their views on the community as it becomes more diverse. everyone sees these herds of hooligans and what not and tend to stereotype (however just it may be) but in my opinion, it is a part cultural, part parenting issue. sure religion impacts on morals and therefore would influence cultural development*, but the difficulties everyone has is due to the globalisation of culture. because there are no more boundaries, there is a definate need for there to be a common ground where everyone can integrate, but noone wants to give up their way of life for the sake of others (collectively more than individually)....such is the great battle of the higher thinking being
sometimes i wonder whether or not it would be better off for our actions to be driven by innate desires rather than having to read a script on how to live (thats my view on religion). the only problem i have with this is that i wouldnt be able to enjoy sex as a pleasurable experience rather than a means to procreate


*this is how my logic works

quote:

Originally posted by Paulie S_madis the war on so called terrorism and immigration are two different topics. War is pointless, is a waste of human life, much like capital punishment for smuggling a couple pills or a cpl grams of heroin. There is no winner in war so i dont know where your getting at...

nothing to do with War, just in reference to your little cue mass generalisation, sounds awfully similiar to something your mate George W would say.

Although I do agree with your point on War ofcourse, which leaves me a tad baffled. How could someone be so senstive to the topic of war and have zero toleration for another religion and it followers, chastising it, and branding all who embrace it as inferior to your kind. It is this point of view which leads to war, hatred and violence amongst the peoples of the world, fear of the unknown, simply because of a few personal experiences purely based on demography and nothing else. Again Paulie I dont want to change your mind/opinion on anything, your scum as mentioned, but seriously you're more inconsistent than anyone ive ever come across.

quote:

Originally posted by OLi_A the only problem i have with this is that i wouldnt be able to enjoy sex as a pleasurable experience rather than a means to procreate

bs. would hit. you know you would.

ah how lil johnny can bring out the religious and cultural discussions. he's such an influential guy.

quote:

Originally posted by S_madis nothing to do with War, just in reference to your little cue mass generalisation, sounds awfully similiar to something your mate George W would say. Although I do agree with your point on War ofcourse, which leaves me a tad baffled. How could someone be so senstive to the topic of war and have zero toleration for another religion and it followers, chastising it, and branding all who embrace it as inferior to your kind. It is this point of view which leads to war, hatred and violence amongst the peoples of the world, fear of the unknown, simply because of a few personal experiences purely based on demography and nothing else. Again Paulie I dont want to change your mind/opinion on anything, your scum as mentioned, but seriously you're more inconsistent than anyone ive ever come across.

My religion aint inferior to no ones, nor do i expect anyone to abandon their religion. It just gets really frustrating when your in australia and we have to accomadate for other religions, be it jewish, be it muslim be it orthodox. It drives me fucken crazy. Ive been discriminated all my fucken life (eg. Onelove sat nite, gone to sit down, asked if i could sit down and told in no uncertain terms by an 18 yo girl, that she doesnt want a dirty wog next to her), and not once have i expected people to take my religion or my nationality into account. Thats whats gets to me. People want us to take pity on them. Not once have i critisced the muslim faith, what they preach or who they follow (and dont throw that Xmas example in my face, cause thats not a criticism of their religion, thats simply stating the gall of the people who have "migrated" into australia and expect us to accomodate for them.)

If you dont see that, i dont really care, but you continually acting like i think my religion is better than anyones religion is so off the mark its not funny. When i go into your house madis, i will live by your rules, i will take my shoes off if you ask, heck ill even sit and do a pray if i have to, its your roof you make the rules, i wont try and change them, nor will i try and tell what you can and cant do.

Fuck, of course im fucken generalising, but heck man down here (MELBOURNE) , thats the image i get as a group. Always the victim. The italians in world war II used to get mugged on the streets in melbourne, cause of their part in the war...They changed their names FFS (im not suggesting the same) You think they cried the victim, they earnt the respect of the people, fucken maybe as a group stop cryngg victim and persecution and racism, and start doing what the italians did, mind their own business and go about things... watch how people wont say a word. Seriously man, you look as if i hate your group of people. Hate's a nasty word, i dont hate no one, i get frustrated by people.

Before some smart arse chimes in, yes it was my fault for being at one love in the first place lol.

quote:

Originally posted by eRRaTiK bs. would hit. you know you would.

i cant hide from the truth

quote:

Originally posted by Paulie My religion aint inferior to no ones, nor do i expect anyone to abandon their religion. It just gets really frustrating when your in australia and we have to accomadate for other religions, be it jewish, be it muslim be it orthodox. It drives me fucken crazy. Ive been discriminated all my fucken life (eg. Onelove sat nite, gone to sit down, asked if i could sit down and told in no uncertain terms by an 18 yo girl, that she doesnt want a dirty wog next to her), and not once have i expected people to take my religion or my nationality into account. Thats whats gets to me. People want us to take pity on them. Not once have i critisced the muslim faith, what they preach or who they follow (and dont throw that Xmas example in my face, cause thats not a criticism of their religion, thats simply stating the gall of the people who have "migrated" into australia and expect us to accomodate for them.) If you dont see that, i dont really care, but you continually acting like i think my religion is better than anyones religion is so off the mark its not funny. When i go into your house madis, i will live by your rules, i will take my shoes off if you ask, heck ill even sit and do a pray if i have to, its your roof you make the rules, i wont try and change them, nor will i try and tell what you can and cant do. Fuck, of course im fucken generalising, but heck man down here (MELBOURNE) , thats the image i get as a group. Always the victim. The italians in world war II used to get mugged on the streets in melbourne, cause of their part in the war...They changed their names FFS (im not suggesting the same) You think they cried the victim, they earnt the respect of the people, fucken maybe as a group stop cryngg victim and persecution and racism, and start doing what the italians did, mind their own business and go about things... watch how people wont say a word. Seriously man, you look as if i hate your group of people. Hate's a nasty word, i dont hate no one, i get frustrated by people.

When did I ever say that I felt the world owed me something because I am muslim. Just because I defend my background against prejudiced, generalised opinions like this one:

quote:

Originally posted by Paulie [cue mass generalisation] The current influx of islamic cultures completely go against what migration is about. They build communities within our community, and continually fuel their hate and propoganda to generation after generation. They are always out to beat the system, and refuse to accept the australian way of life [/mass generalisation]

doesn't have anything to do with me making myself feel better and take pity for me. Quite the opposite! Since we are bringing up personal experiences (dont worry I wont bring up your sisters Xmas carol bash) I take pride in the fact that people are suprised to find out that im muslim, through my experiences at university and now as a teacher because it shows narrow minded, half twits that some of us do have a brain and that our sole purpose on this place isn't fueling hatred and propaganda as you so eloquently put it! Im proud of my background, im proud of the individual I am and will never change my name because of the many people who share your view or proclaim these mass generalisations, because as you said, for the muslim people as whole to rid themself of this image (building communities, refusing 'Australian Way' of life) we need more people actively participating in discussions such as this one to show others the perils of generalisation. You dont want others to consider where you come from (your night club example) so be it, you have your reasons and judging from your numerous experiences, one could ask, who can blame you, this country has seen many a many culture come from all over the world with open arms and none more grateful than my family and the other muslims we associate ourselves with. The mosques, the schools etc have all been in coordination with the local communities and government and we are in debt to this nation in so many ways you cannot begin to imagine. We accept the Australian way as the most giving and understanding. Again, I strongly stress this, there are bad apples everywhere, people of all religious extremists groups, who will always go against the system/society whatever, and not accept the 'Australian way' of life. Obviously in your area, it is more apparent with people of an Islamic background, but does that give you the right to proclaim that all muslims who migrate to certain areas in Australia (refer to quote) I think not, which is my entire arguement!

would you both just shut the fuck up? we're all pink on the inside so get the fuck over it.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.