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-- Political Debate jan 9
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great post spam

+1 to Spam's post

quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie I applaud your rant, Spam. I've basically given up too.. No decent candidates in my riding, and I'm left to pick one out of the worst. If Frank Klees (Conservative, ooooo shocking to you supporters, isn't it!) was running up here, he'd likely get my vote.

I applaud the fact that you still do your best to keep informed and vote based on what you believe to be the best decision for yourself and, perhaps, your country. But I really don't see how Belinda Stronach could do anything to garner your support.

If you ignore the fact that she's a Liberal and I really don't like them right now, what you STILL have is a backstabbing rookie who makes political decisions solely for her own personal gain (wow... maybe it wasn't such a bad thing she switched, she fits in SO WELL).

I don't know about your other choices, as I live in a riding where my choices are Whajid Khan and Rupinder Brar. I don't know anything about these guys, except that when Khan calls my house, I can't understand him, and what party they belong to. But, I've decided this time around to vote for the party I believe will be best for Canada at this time. And in my mind, it's the Conservatives. Based mainly on two things.

Although I like the ideas and ideoligies behind Liberal policy, I'm becoming increasingly skeptical of whether or not their grand social programs can ACTUALLY work, and I'm getting more and more tired of Liberal agendas intruding on my, and other's personal lives (what dogs we can own, where we can smoke *not a smoker btw... of cigarettes*, what type of firearm we're allowed to own *don't want a gun, but respect other's rights to it*) as well as the waste of money many of their policies become as a result of administrative costs (paperwork rather than actual results, Such as the Gun Registry). I like that the Tories are willing to cut social programs, because I believe it forces those in charge of expendatures in those programs to become more creative and learn to spend more efficiently. The current Liberal strategy of "Lets spend 32982398563 Billion dollars over 32982398563 years to fix Problem X" results in giant black holes of fiscal waste. The major result from more money being thrown at these problems is faster paperwork, and hefty raises to the corresponding employees of whatever union is in control of whatever institution they are trying to fix, be it health-care, education or whatever. Although seemingly uncaring, Tory cuts can actually be a blessing because, as I've said, it FORCES these institutions to budget properly.

The problem is, instead, they just whine and cry to the newspapers about how 'underfunded' they are, and the media eats it up because it sells. The Government is then held under increasing public pressure to spend more on said problem instead of working on SOLUTIONS (and then, the NDP, which is basically Liberal to the power of 3, gain support).

That being said, Harper continually says (in response to people complaining about him cutting this or that social program, that aboriginal deal, for instance, or the kyoto accord) that he believes there are better SOLUTIONS and that he wants to work with said institutions to fix the problem. This is how I believe problems should be solved, not just by throwing billions of dollars at them, but by truly attempting to work out the kinks CAUSING the problems to begin with.

Last election, Paul Martin spat out all sorts of this type of rhetoric, and I gave him the benefit of the doubt. He did a good job as finance minister under Jean Chretien, and leading up to the election he had the sponsorship scandal to deal with and never really had a chance to govern. He's had his chance now, and in my mind, he's failed miserably. His constant non-action on a seemingly never-ending list of issues he said he'd fix has completely outraged me.

Combine that with my more recent learning of many conservative theories (as in, WHY they want to do things the way they do) and it's made a conservative out of me if, or until THEY screw it up.

In all honesty I believe that a regular change of Government is what's best for a country, and democracy. I think that after 8-10 years, ANY government will become complacent, corrupt, and will begin to lose sight of their citizen's true interests. 8 years from now you may see me speaking out against the Conservatives and how they've mis-managed the country, but for now, I think it's time they had their chance at Governing once again.

You know what, Spam, I'd sincerely vote for you if you were available.

I just don't have choices here. Another example...



It's sofa king sad.

quote:

Originally posted by Spam AMbercrombie, why all the bashing of candidates with a 'mere' High School diploma? Are you so naive as to think that the level of one's education is the only important credential a person has? I'm a high school drop-out, I'll openly admit it, but I CHALLENGE you to find me a job that I won't excell at within 6 months, given proper training. Western Society's upholding of education and wealth as the be-all, end-all of a person's value is a sad representation of how much society really HAS deteriorated since 'the good ol' days". It used to be that one's integrity, loyalty, and sense of work ethic (not to be confused with the 'work' that schools dole out all in the name of 'preparing you for the real world') were qualities by which others rated a man (or woman :rolleyes. Now it's all about his (their?) PhD and the millions of dollars sitting in his (or her) bank account. It's ridiculous. It's why we end up with dolts like Paul Martin in the PM office to begin with! Don't get me wrong, education is a GREAT thing, but only to a point, and certainly not to the extent that our current society upholds it. No wonder voters don't think these guys get it, they DON'T! Not a single one of them has ever had to actually LIVE in this country, they're all born into money, and are so busy trying to fix GLOBAL problems like the environment and world peace. Or trivial matters like banning pitbulls or creating anti-smoking legislation. Only the conservatives are ready to deal with problems that actually MATTER to your average Canadian, but in recent history, it seems all we've had in office are these crazy Liberal hippies, and they've got everyone fooled into thinking that things such as public health care (and, for that matter, socialism) actually works. The Liberal agenda is GREAT, it's absolutely FANTASTIC. In theory. In REALITY, it's run by corrupt politicians who are desperate for power and (imagine this) our money. Our money, that they repeatedly spend to their own personal gains as if the electorat is stupid and will let them get away with it. The part that REALLY disturbs me, is that the electorat IS stupid, and DOES let them get away with it, every time they say "Hey, Paul Martin and the Liberals stole and wasted billions of dollars of our tax money, only kept about 10% of their promises, pissed off the Americans, didn't scrap the GST 12 years ago when they said they would, and, oh yeah, told me what kind of dog I'm allowed to own, but I love those guys, they REALLY care about values that matter to me, besides, I just don't TRUST that Harper guy." I don't understand that thought-process. And this is all coming from someone who used to be a staunch Liberal supporter, until I grew up, and I realized that none of their IDEAS actually WORK (Look no further than our floundering health-system and our useless Gun Registry, and to think, they want to start up a social program to help raise our kids?!!!?!!!?!??)! I, for one, will be absolutely ecstatic on the 23rd, when the Liberals are finally removed from office. I realize that the above post is very disorganized, but since this is just a public forum, and I'm a little pressed for time, I'm just letting some thoughts spill out.

Makes total sense to me Spam and good on yea!
I'm doing the advanced poll with my wife tonight since she is going to a Harley conference in Texas this weekend (oh what a rough job...)

quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie You know what, Spam, I'd sincerely vote for you if you were available. I just don't have choices here.

No candidate is going to do anything around the newmarket/aurora area anyways, and since u feel you have no choice based on qualifications... why not vote based on the overall party?...thats what im doin, i think voting for the individual is more or less useless in a federal election.

so I went tonight to get registered to vote and...I don't think I will be able to!!! Apparently, I need some identification with my current address here in Toronto....and I don't have anything like that! I think the only place I could vote at is back in Barry's Bay where I used to live...this isn't good because I live 4 hours away from there and will not be visiting that town for a couple more weeks. What do I doooooooooooo???? I really want to vote

call Elections Canada ASAP...you definitely can vote.

1-800-463-6868

quote:

Originally posted by me@t k@tie so I went tonight to get registered to vote and...I don't think I will be able to!!! Apparently, I need some identification with my current address here in Toronto....and I don't have anything like that! I think the only place I could vote at is back in Barry's Bay where I used to live...this isn't good because I live 4 hours away from there and will not be visiting that town for a couple more weeks. What do I doooooooooooo???? I really want to vote

power bill? housing rental agreement? telephone bill?

quote:

Originally posted by Wyndham No candidate is going to do anything around the newmarket/aurora area anyways, and since u feel you have no choice based on qualifications... why not vote based on the overall party?...thats what im doin, i think voting for the individual is more or less useless in a federal election.

I don't want to regret it later, and say "I can't believe I voted for that bozo". Technically and historically, our voting system in Canada is based on voting the person. That's why the person we're putting X beside is in big letters, and the party in small letters. But that asside, you may be right, it's a compromise. In past elections, I usually felt very confident with my votes, and I'm not completely comfortable this time.

quote:

Originally posted by malek power bill? housing rental agreement? telephone bill?

no no and no!

quote:

Originally posted by me@t k@tie no no and no!

You live on the street??

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r You live on the street??

well not ON the street, I'd get hit by a car....

I live in a box on the sidewalk






I just moved to Scarberia in October and I'm renting a room in a house owned by an INSANE lady (thank god im moving in a week)...anyways, i don't have anything really legite with my address on it...I don't suppose it counts if a friend writes a letter?

I'm a factual guy, so i had to post this:

What Steven Harper and the Conservatives stand for:
-Private health care

-Increase our defence/military

-Tax breaks for the rich

-Would cancel the $4.8 billion for the national daycare program

-Pull the $5.5 billion agreement for Canada's Fist Nations (Natives)....which
are the poorest of Canadians

-Nothing in place to protect Ontario's auto industry which for the first time
ranked #1 in all of North America

-Abandon Chretien's Kyoto Accord (environmentally global warming program
cutting emissions etc) that all countries have signed on except the US)

-Mayor Miller pretty much said to stay clear of the Conservatives as they
have no benefit for cities and dont see it beneficial to meet with city leaders

While at a Republican event with George Bush Harper said,
'Canada is a northern European welfare nation at its worst...
we are a second rate country and we will never be a nation like
yours'

Basically we would be a puppet for George Bush.... supply troops and
approving war.....we would support the Bush's ballistic missile defence that
Martin oppsed...........cut and slash every social program
.................as you can see its a very George Bush Republic style of government

-oh yeah, hes also rather anti immigrant....he said most of the Liberal ridings
on the West Coast are help by immigrants from Asia that live in ghettos

-Under him, national unity (the Quebec issue) is in big trouble as many times in the past he
has sided with the Bloc Quebecois (the party that wants to separate)


Paul Martin and the Liberals

-Have had 8 balanced budgets (thats literally unheard of)

-Unemployment is at a 30 year low

-Soaring loonie because of our growing economy

-Only industrial nation paying its national deficit

-Against private health care

-The Gomery 'scandal' that everyone talks about
1) Paul Martin is the one who called the inquiry in the first place
2) The report is over and all Liberal members have been pardoned/
not guilty

-All these other scandals you here are all alleged and there is no fact behind them....
theres not even investigations behind them...the Conservatives just want to get the word scandal out

-Pledge an additional $6 billion to the daycare program

-Mandatory jail sentence if caught with a gun

-Gov't would pay half of first year and half of last year tution for
everyone attending a Canadian College or University

-Mayor Miller insists the Liberals have substantially invetsed in the
city and their plans for the city are big and benefial and by not voting
for them, citizens are taking away from themselves as no other party
plans such interest or investment (transportation, public infrastructure)

-Weve pretty much been the envy of every other country--economically
and the ability to resist the US in its nonsense overseas


Lastly, national economists from all over Canada agree that the Conservative finanancial
plan is unrealistic and unreasnable....they are 22 billion over budget
right now which means wed see another huge deficit or slashing/cutting social programs.

quote:

Originally posted by me@t k@tie well not ON the street, I'd get hit by a car.... I live in a box on the sidewalk

Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at six o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of 'ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would thrash us to sleep with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!
(love Monty Python!)

quote:

I just moved to Scarberia in October and I'm renting a room in a house owned by an INSANE lady (thank god im moving in a week)...anyways, i don't have anything really legite with my address on it...I don't suppose it counts if a friend writes a letter?

I'd do what MarkT was suggesting and phone Elections Canada!
Good luck with the INSANE lady and good luck with being able to vote!

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT call Elections Canada ASAP...you definitely can vote. 1-800-463-6868

thanks hun. I just called that number and got it all figured out. Now I'm ready to vote
muahahahahahaha

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at six o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of 'ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would thrash us to sleep with a broken bottle, if we were lucky! (love Monty Python!)

hahaha

quote:

Originally posted by me@t k@tie thanks hun. I just called that number and got it all figured out. Now I'm ready to vote muahahahahahaha

Good stuff!

quote:

Originally posted by TheVrk I'm a factual guy, so i had to post this:

Your post would indicate otherwise.

quote:

What Steven Harper and the Conservatives stand for: -Private health care

I wish, but they don't.

http://www.conservative.ca/EN/2023/37031
http://www.conservative.ca/media/20...DECLARATION.pdf

quote:

-Increase our defence/military

Yup, and good on them. One of the most important duties of the federal government under the Constitution is to provide for Canada's defense. Not education, not health care.. those are provincial matters. Defense is one area where the federal government has been completely negligent. It's disgusting that the Canadians injured in Afghanistan are being treated by Americans, and airlifted out by Americans.

quote:

-Tax breaks for the rich

There's a whole host of tax measures for everyone, especially the middle class. (tax credit for tradespeople, transit passes, sports, GST cut, etc.)

quote:

-Would cancel the $4.8 billion for the national daycare program

There is no $4.8 billion daycare program - that's just a Lieberal proposal.... and a bad one at that. It's a massive expansion of the state which would create a massive bureaucracy and only benefit unions. The CPC plan is better for average Canadians, especially those who stay at home with kids.

quote:

-Pull the $5.5 billion agreement for Canada's Fist Nations (Natives)....which are the poorest of Canadians

The Lieberal record on aboriginals is a disgrace, and a total failure. The CPC got the endorsement of the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples.

quote:

-Nothing in place to protect Ontario's auto industry which for the first time ranked #1 in all of North America

And rightly so. It's time to end subsidies to massive corporations. Every year we give the auto makers BILLIONS of our taxpayer dollars. That money could be better spent elsewhere. The government should not be a bank. It's time to get the State out of the economy.

quote:

-Abandon Chretien's Kyoto Accord (environmentally global warming program cutting emissions etc) that all countries have signed on except the US)

Kyoto is a failure and a ruse. It's not an environmental treay - it's an economic redistribution scheme. It doesn't even include China and India - two of the world's largest polluters. Anyway, the U.S. has cut emissions far more than Canada and it's not even a signatory. http://www.climateark.org/articles/...sp?linkid=11156

quote:

-Mayor Miller pretty much said to stay clear of the Conservatives as they have no benefit for cities and dont see it beneficial to meet with city leaders

Comrade Miller supports the federal Lieberals in exchange for the provincial Lieberals granting him dictatorial powers.

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...ighlight=Miller

quote:

Basically we would be a puppet for George Bush.... supply troops and approving war.....we would support the Bush's ballistic missile defence that Martin oppsed...........cut and slash every social program .................as you can see its a very George Bush Republic style of government

Canada should be part of the BMD program. BMD should be part of NORAD, in which Canada could exercise control over the program. By staying out, Canada cannot influence its development (the U.S. is going ahead with it anyway). A North Korean general threatened to use nuclear weapons in a 60 Minutes interview, and we need a strategic counter to China. oh.. and the U.S. would pay 100% of the bill.

quote:

-oh yeah, hes also rather anti immigrant....he said most of the Liberal ridings on the West Coast are help by immigrants from Asia that live in ghettos

Andrew Telegdi, a Lieberal MP, has admitted to using the "N" word. Michael Ignatieff turfed a black MP and made anti-Ukrainian comments in the past. The Lieberals don't want to apologize for the Chinese Head Tax. The list goes on.

quote:

-Under him, national unity (the Quebec issue) is in big trouble as many times in the past he has sided with the Bloc Quebecois (the party that wants to separate)

The Lieberals created the national unity problem.

-the Quiet Revolution happened under the Lieberals
-Rene Leveque came out of the Lieberal Party
-the Flag Flap and de-Britishization of Canada happened under the Lieberals
-the FLQ / October Crisis (with the UNPRECEDENTED calling of martial law) happened under the Trudeau Lieberals
-the Lieberals forced bilingualism on English-speaking provinces
-the PQ separatist government came to power in 1976 with the Trudeau Lieberals in Ottawa
-the anglophone diaspora happened with the Lieberals in power
-the 1980 Quebec referendum happened with the Trudeau Lieberals in Ottawa
-the divisive 1982 "constitution" was put into place with the Trudeau Lieberals in Ottawa (which Quebec HAS STILL NOT SIGNED)
-the Western Canada Concept and other western separatists came to prominance with the Trudeau Lieberals in Ottawa
-the 1995 Quebec referendum happened with the Chretien Lieberals in Ottawa
-AdScam, which is currently fueling anger in Quebec, happened under the Lieberals
-Martin appointed BQ co-founder Lapierre as a minister of the crown
-Martin appointed avowed separatist Jean as Governor-General
-founding of two new Western separatist parties (Western Canada Block, etc.)

quote:

Paul Martin and the Liberals -Have had 8 balanced budgets (thats literally unheard of) -Unemployment is at a 30 year low -Soaring loonie because of our growing economy -Only industrial nation paying its national deficit

We don't have a "national" deficit, we have a federal budget and ten provincial budgets. Martin cut the federal deficit by cutting transfers to the provinces, creating the fiscal imbalance and deficits at the provincial level.

In fact, irresponsible federal spending has exploded.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...?query=spending

quote:

-The Gomery 'scandal' that everyone talks about 1) Paul Martin is the one who called the inquiry in the first place 2) The report is over and all Liberal members have been pardoned/ not guilty

Martin called the most limited inquiry he could call. Gomery did NOT have the power to charge people, nor to investigate other Lieberal scandals.

quote:

-All these other scandals you here are all alleged and there is no fact behind them.... theres not even investigations behind them...

Factually incorrect. There are dozens of other scandals involving the Lieberals.

http://soapbox22.blogspot.com/2005/11/dubious-day.html

quote:

-Weve pretty much been the envy of every other country--economically and the ability to resist the US in its nonsense overseas

NEWSFLASH: noone outside Canada cares about Canada or talks much about it.

quote:

Lastly, national economists from all over Canada agree that the Conservative finanancial plan is unrealistic and unreasnable....they are 22 billion over budget right now which means wed see another huge deficit or slashing/cutting social programs.

The only question had to do with transfer payment adjustments becuase those have to be negotiated with the Premiers (so obviously it can't be costed yet).

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