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-- Help me understand what happened to Trance...
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But I don't want to listen to crap, he says crap is objective, and he has consensus, and evidence, and all that stuff!

I like a wide variety of things, what would be the most helpful thing to like? I would much rather support diverse enjoyable music, to help breed a scene of inclusion, where wild behavior and uninhibited self expression are the norm, much moreso than these clubs with the whole "look pretty and stand in line for your drink special" thing. The web promised me this beautiful sanctuary with unique music and tolerant people, who cared cheifly for contribution to the partying spirit above all else. I finally come of age to see these things and I find that it no longer exists, and has been canabalized and fragmented into these clubs and subgenres, that they put a guy at the door to seach us and charge us, just to get in and have the crowd act just like they do at high school prom with their cliques and their stupid fads, much like any other music show, leaving me quite unsatisfied.(forgive the awful sentence please)

Just leaves me wondering, what is a boy to do?

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Originally posted by Stasis Anyway, yes Ragadast/Donkeyness, that does mean nostalgia will always reduce credibility. It is impossible to set that aside. Doing so would be like setting aside one's memories or experiences in making a judgement. Maybe generations from now people might be able to look back and make something that approaches an objective analysis of the situation, but these days that's simply not possible.

Then why isn't nostalgia stopping me and others like me from realizing how bad post 96 trance actually is? Why are we able to say, "True, back then I did love the stuff and I do have good memories of it, but now, looking back objectively in my quest to find the answers, it seems that the best explanation for why I no longer enjoy epic/anthem trance and feel a sense of disillusionment is (insert explanation here)."

It's a common occurence. Ishkur terms it the '9 month romance period' or something. Well?

Thanx again people

Hey everyone, just wanted to say thanx for all the discussion. But also i want to clarify something. I don't think songs like Without You Near, Summerdream, Air For Life etc suck, it's just that if I were a DJ and I wanted to send a big crowd into a frenzy, I wouldn't play those type of tracks.

When I listen to older Trance sets in my room I pretty much can't help but get up and dance, and I just wish that the tracks that DJs are mainly spinning ATM would be the same, and not make me want to go chill out on the couches.

I just think that certain situations call for certain genres of music. Restaurants - Lounge Music, Parties - Party Tunes, Big club dancefloor - Awesom music you can really go nuts to. To me it doesn't matter if it's trance, house, rock or even pop, if it makes me wanna go nuts dancing, i love it.

Haha, but I'll stop my whining now. I'm still gonna enjoy the PVD nite even if he plays 3 hours of Celine Dion!

Ciao!

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Originally posted by Donkeyness Then why isn't nostalgia stopping me and others like me from realizing how bad post 96 trance actually is? Why are we able to say, "True, back then I did love the stuff and I do have good memories of it, but now, looking back objectively in my quest to find the answers, it seems that the best explanation for why I no longer enjoy epic/anthem trance and feel a sense of disillusionment is (insert explanation here)." It's a common occurence. Ishkur terms it the '9 month romance period' or something. Well?

I think this whole no longer enjoying epic thing, is not because of any objective sense for quality, but rather a much simpler explanation.

trend hopping, face it, alot of people don't like this stuff because it isn't cool anymore, they enjoyed the fad and the fad lost momentum. People who aren't trend whores keep liking the stuff they used to like rather than dumping it and pretending they didnt like it because it makes them cooler.

Todays music is more drinking music than it is stimulant music, because todays music wants to be legal and accepted by society, so it is smoother, calmer, slower, less exciting, because no drugs taht make you excited are legal. Think about it, all the biggest forms of music these days seem to work really well for drinking. One of the big prog songs is called "drink to get drunk". DnB, breaks, hiphop, prog, are drinking music, and if trance wants to become popular and accepted in industry it must also be drinking music.

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Originally posted by Zombie0915 I think this whole no longer enjoying epic thing, is not because of any objective sense for quality, but rather a much simpler explanation. trend hopping, face it, alot of people don't like this stuff because it isn't cool anymore, they enjoyed the fad and the fad lost momentum. People who aren't trend whores keep liking the stuff they used to like rather than dumping it and pretending they didnt like it because it makes them cooler.

One problem with your rock solid argument there...people are still getting into trance now, and the cycle of liking then getting sick of it still goes on, even though the 'fad' is long gone. They weren't there for this fad, they didn't see it come and go, and they didn't come because of this fad. They were simply drawn in by the music, then spit it out once they had their fill of it shovin itself down their throats. Or some other reason besides trendiness.

oh the infinite joys of arguing with radagast, I know how this works.

cool is definied in a much smaller scope and you know it, your purposely not thinking about my POV because your pride blocks you from budging. Just think about it a little more, try and understand the complexities of how fads flow, how the people getting into this stuff now are following a different fad, definied by a different crowd then the poeple that went through it before. Trance is very much a passage ritual these days, a fad among a certain age group. The fad dictates that you arent cool if you are of a certain age and still enjoy trance.

your taste is defined by other people, you are a sheep, you parrot everything ishkur says, you pursue these talking heads and do everything they say.

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Originally posted by Donkeyness ...looking back objectively in my quest to find the answers, it seems that the best explanation for why I no longer enjoy epic/anthem trance and feel a sense of disillusionment is (insert explanation here)."

The problem is in the final three words: "Insert explanation here." That explanation, however well-reasoned, will always be subjective.

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Originally posted by tiesto14 Why do u contantly come on here acting like you are so old school and that some how gives you some sort of street cred?? I went to a rave in 1989 and was clubbing every weekend from 1991 up to last Friday...does that mean i can bitch and moan like you with impunity?

Sure, if you have something to bitch and moan about.

In all honesty, longevity or experience has nothing to do with anyone's argument here. Neither mine nor yours. I was just correcting him.

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Originally posted by Stasis I did put a lot on the table.

no you didn't.

How about drop it! The style evolves on it's own.

And because of that, I ocassionaly find something new to listen to.

BUT most of the time I enjoy listening to older electronic music.

It's all good in my opinion .
Like unwordly said, this topic is to cyclical.

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Originally posted by Zombie0915 Todays music is more drinking music than it is stimulant music, because todays music wants to be legal and accepted by society, so it is smoother, calmer, slower, less exciting, because no drugs taht make you excited are legal. Think about it, all the biggest forms of music these days seem to work really well for drinking. One of the big prog songs is called "drink to get drunk". DnB, breaks, hiphop, prog, are drinking music, and if trance wants to become popular and accepted in industry it must also be drinking music.

/me waits for Tiest0r to remix "Get Low."

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Originally posted by unwordly Todays music is more drinking music than it is stimulant music, because todays music wants to be legal and accepted by society, so it is smoother, calmer, slower, less exciting, because no drugs taht make you excited are legal. Think about it, all the biggest forms of music these days seem to work really well for drinking. One of the big prog songs is called "drink to get drunk". DnB, breaks, hiphop, prog, are drinking music, and if trance wants to become popular and accepted in industry it must also be drinking music.

this comment is very true. dance music evolved around the drug scene from the early 90's when estacy become of existence in the dance scene. the clubbers then listened to old skool which evolved into the trance scene. nowadays the music is made for the clubbers who jsut shake their heads and talk to their friend in the club. i believe the passion in music is lost. it may have evolved but i prefered it when the ''drug music'' was being preduced. didnt take drugs myself as ive always loved music for music but seeing people enjoying so much steered me towards djing then producing. those people dont exist in the quanitities as they used too nowadays.

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Originally posted by dj_kane this comment is very true. dance music evolved around the drug scene from the early 90's when estacy become of existence in the dance scene.

HUH?

EDM/Dance music, whatever you may call it, has its roots with Disco...and started over a decade before 1990. And Exctasy was just as popular in the 1970s as it was in the 1990s...the difference was that it was legal.

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Originally posted by tiesto14 EDM/Dance music, whatever you may call it, has its roots with Disco...and started over a decade before 1990. And Exctasy was just as popular in the 1970s as it was in the 1990s...the difference was that it was legal.

i wouldnt classify trance in the same catagory as disco. house evolved from disco. estacy wasnt as popular in the 70's. it was more of an acid era. estacy really became big in the dance scene with the introduction of old skool.

my point being was that producers knew what people on estacy wanted to hear and so they produced 'e' music. now their creating 'drinking' music.

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Originally posted by dj_kane i wouldnt classify trance in the same catagory as disco. house evolved from disco.

Oh..well u said dance music...not trance...sorry.

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Originally posted by dj_kane estacy wasnt as popular in the 70's. it was more of an acid era. estacy really became big in the dance scene with the introduction of old skool.

E sure was popular in the 70s...but like i said wasnt as big of a deal. Acid was a late 60s to early 70s thing that revolved around, for the most part, hippies.

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Originally posted by dj_kane my point being was that producers knew what people on estacy wanted to hear and so they produced 'e' music. now their creating 'drinking' music.

I fully disagree,,,,,and think you are way off base.

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Originally post buy tiesto14 I fully disagree,,,,,and think you are way off base.

in what way?

maybe im not wording things properly. i haven't heard a real good track since the cheese scene came about. producers have been trying to make tracks that are a totally different sound due to the cheese. it ruined the trance that existed (although there were some excellent tunes still being made), however the cheese has moved into the house market and i think that trance can recover from this blip. will in fact it will. i listen to productions made by people on this and they are what i would call old skool trance 98-02 era and they dont get signed.

there are productions that are what i would call average that i listen to also and they get signed because their generic and of the same standard if the trance being produced today.

I used to argue who is better and who has the bigger internet pen0r but I'm frankly too old to give a shit anymore.

honestly, who gives a shit, who is more old sk00l, who gives a shit who is attended raves. I mean if you wanted to claim who is more old sk00l, have an argument with Wicked Neo, who started clubbing in the days of Acid House (when most of us were 5-10).

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Originally posted by dj_kane in what way?

I disagree about what you say about producers making a "druggie sound" or a "drunk sound"...producers produce what makes people dance, usually. And sadly cheese makes the MAJORITY of people dance and the MAJORITY of people in clubs are not die hard EDM fans but instead the run of the mill going out to have fun people.

agree with you there. all the die hard edm fans are on TA lol

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Originally posted by tiesto14 I disagree about what you say about producers making a "druggie sound" or a "drunk sound"...producers produce what makes people dance, usually. And sadly cheese makes the MAJORITY of people dance and the MAJORITY of people in clubs are not die hard EDM fans but instead the run of the mill going out to have fun people.

Depends on the country wouldn't you say?

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Originally posted by kr00t0n Depends on the country wouldn't you say?

I would say apart from a few major EDM cities it is the rule of thumb.

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I mean, that doesnt sound like taking itself seriously, or claiming to be something its not, at least to me. So many of these trance musicians are really humble people when one meets them, they aren't acting like they are bigger than jesus, the promoters are more responsible for that I think.

Oh dear, these trance people...they are holy, very nice and down to earth, they are just earning TONES of money FOR DOING nothing...that's the problem these days!And you know...earning so much with so LITTLE effort doesn't make you want to try harder...it just makes you comfortable and numb.


Yes, this is the problem with any music that gets commercialised to death(like current "trance"-can we call it this way?).Quality is no more the standard but quantity.No one cares about the music, everyone is hypnotised by the "hype" and by the dosens of the similarly sounding tracks that come out, and everyone is happy about it.It is true.Todays trance IS dead. Its poor,its uninspired, it lacks emotions,it lacks content,it's terribly easy to get into, requires the minimum of effort and attention(its music for the masses)can be produced by any-one with fruity or reason(majority of todays producers are 15-22 with a pc...of course this in itself is not bad...mozart has produced some great tunes when he was 8...these producers could well be...musical geniuses...like mozart...or they could just use the "fruity presets")it is indeed plastic and it is made with the words "exposure", "fame" and well maybe some "money" in mind.("Wow, my new tune was played by armin in the stadium...i must make another "bigger" one this time"-a new producer could think).

Trance hasn't "developed" or "evolved" in something more complex or better, it was rather transformed into a shameless new pop idiom(oh well, "Evolution" IS opportunistic...complexity is not the law but economy...Maximum gain with minimum effort as Darwin could well have said for living organisms!).That's what current trance is, a very cheap modern "synth-pop",(not to be confused with the ingenius "analogue" 80s synth-pop of Ultravox,Depeche Mode and OMD)which is "user-friendly" and "Easy-to-read".It's definitely not something to listen with headphones on(of course every "trance" is "dance" and it is not intented for home-listening...but than again i would happily listen to LSG's "blueprint"on headphones).

It is strictly tailored for the "BIIIIGGG(est)" dancefloors,for any pilled "Cool" kid with glowsticks,for the average clubber and person in general who just want's to simply have some fun and for the dj's who want to be the new "armins" and "tiestos"(playing in the olympics...groupies...).Today's Trance is a new type of pop and it should only be cosidered this way.This goes not only for trance but for the large majority of modern dance scene which i believe is no more defined by it's artists but by the musical industry's intentions.Peace.



E.G:Is Ishkur the "famous" Ishkur...you know...one of the founders of TA?Gee...show some respect for da "master"!!!(if we are talking about the same person!)

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Originally posted by PETRAN E.G:Is Ishkur the "famous" Ishkur...you know...one of the founders of TA?Gee...show some respect for da "master"!!!(if we are talking about the same person!)

LOL he had no part in finding TA...hope Swamper doesnt see that..he might have a coronary.

LOL, well maybe he is not "the founder of TA" but he was one of the first posters(wow)!A legendary member by all means!(check out the website entitled "Ishkur's guide to electronic Music"...I still don't know if he is the same person though!)

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Originally posted by PETRAN LOL, well maybe he is not "the founder of TA" but he was one of the first posters(wow)!A legendary member by all means!(check out the website entitled "Ishkur's guide to electronic Music"...I still don't know if he is the same person though!)

ya its the same person...dont mind him he's just mad at his father and takes it out on the tunes.

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