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-- rememberance day
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quote:

Originally posted by elFreak how is taking a simple 2 minutes to observe silence in respect of those fallen a celebration? you sure that superior education you are getting is working?

Well as discussed previously in this thread, the term is used loosely.

quote:

Originally posted by XaNaX and he also forgets that historically speaking, not everyone who fights in a war actually volunteered for the military. The lack of a wartime draft is a relatively new thing

Actually, he did state that he honours those that were conscripted to service (a few pages back).

quote:

Originally posted by nchs09 Well as discussed previously in this thread, the term is used loosely.

*facepalm*

It's not just celebrating or remembering the fact that they got killed ( or the safe returns of our living veterans) I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have the balls to do what they did, go where they went, and fought what they fought. We remember and thank the courage and bravery that those young men and their families had to go through to help us get to where we are now.

moral, like all keyboard warriors, u take one part of my opinion and spin it to make it something entirely different. i expect that on the web, especially from ppl like jay who like to take the piss, and you too, on occasion, but you know as well as i do that i don't think all volunteers are assholes. there are obviously people out there who want to make a difference. i think there are other ways to make a difference than willfully making yourself a pawn for a government that has made decisions you personally don't believe in. which is what i think is going on today (as you correctly pointed out--most of my grievance has to do with today's conflict). but i DO understand the history of the matter, and i think back to the cavalier attitude that MANY young men had about the great wars and I don't understand how you can have such tremendous blind faith in them, treating them like gods. like wtf is that? it's like a worship day. i feel like the sentiment that some of you have is overkill.

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Actually, he did state that he honours those that were conscripted to service (a few pages back).

that is so generous of him. like those who joined as a way to earn a living and support their family and then get shipped off to fight in some conflict in a foreign land deserve any less respect.

quote:

Originally posted by elFreak *facepalm*

Well carry on eating your ribs and commemorating soldiers

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree moral, like all keyboard warriors, u take one part of my opinion and spin it to make it something entirely different. i expect that on the web, especially from ppl like jay who like to take the piss, and you too, on occasion, but you know as well as i do that i don't think all volunteers are assholes. there are obviously people out there who want to make a difference. i think there are other ways to make a difference than willfully making yourself a pawn for a government that has made decisions you personally don't believe in. which is what i think is going on today (as you correctly pointed out--most of my grievance has to do with today's conflict). but i DO understand the history of the matter, and i think back to the cavalier attitude that MANY young men had about the great wars and I don't understand how you can have such tremendous blind faith in them, treating them like gods. like wtf is that? it's like a worship day. i feel like the sentiment that some of you have is overkill.

even i have my limits when it comes to being a jackass. I am proud of people like my grandfather who even though forced, made a difference in the world we live in.

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree moral, like all keyboard warriors, u take one part of my opinion and spin it to make it something entirely different. i expect that on the web, especially from ppl like jay who like to take the piss, and you too, on occasion, but you know as well as i do that i don't think all volunteers are assholes. there are obviously people out there who want to make a difference. i think there are other ways to make a difference than willfully making yourself a pawn for a government that has made decisions you personally don't believe in. which is what i think is going on today (as you correctly pointed out--most of my grievance has to do with today's conflict). but i DO understand the history of the matter, and i think back to the cavalier attitude that MANY young men had about the great wars and I don't understand how you can have such tremendous blind faith in them, treating them like gods. like wtf is that? it's like a worship day. i feel like the sentiment that some of you have is overkill.

how is 2 minutes of silence = to treating someone like a god. Two minutes isn't a lot to give someone who prevented me from having to wear a swastika and worship Hitler and who kept people who were of "undesirable" race or religion out of labor camps and gas chambers.

Maybe it's different for people who were born or live or both in the countries that were involved, that had family members involved (still alive or not), and maybe who care? I don't know how you can't care. Not understanding is one thing but that shouldn't shelter you from not paying respects even if you don't think respect is needed after all these years.

seriously, i was just wondering who else observed this holiday.. if you choose not to, ok. if you do, hey me too!

quote:

Originally posted by XaNaX like those who joined as a way to earn a living and support their family and then get shipped off to fight in some conflict in a foreign land deserve any less respect.

my whole point is that people who joined for that reason should EXPECT that possibility and we shouldn't feel any extra sympathy. they joined the military like you or i joined the domestic economy to support our families AND the economy. We keep the economy going so that the people fighting wherever today, have some wealth to come back to (lol okay maybe bankers aren't doing such a good job lol) but I dunno...like nacho, I am very much against war (but agree that WW2 had to happen) and so it should be remembrance day for WW2 only (even WW1 was a bit overglorified).

quote:

Originally posted by XaNaX who kept people who were of "undesirable" race or religion out of labor camps and gas chambers.

lol funny thing is japs and chinese were still forced into labour at subpar compensation well after WW2 in Canada.

it's also funny that first nations people were forced into residential schools until the 70's.. but hey i guess canada isn't perfect

quote:

Originally posted by Frenchie Maybe it's different for people who were born or live or both in the countries that were involved, that had family members involved (still alive or not), and maybe who care? I don't know how you can't care. Not understanding is one thing but that shouldn't shelter you from not paying respects even if you don't think respect is needed after all these years.

it should not be any different as the freedoms they enjoy and the reasons their ancestors chose to come to their adopted homeland are the same ones we fought for.

right, so point being hitler or no hitler, we still had pretty fucked up racist values of our own that took decades of internal social evolution to counter, not foreign policy which was basically whatever the US or Britain did. Canada was always a gimp according to my historical studies.

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree moral, like all keyboard warriors, u take one part of my opinion and spin it to make it something entirely different. i expect that on the web, especially from ppl like jay who like to take the piss, and you too, on occasion, but you know as well as i do that i don't think all volunteers are assholes. there are obviously people out there who want to make a difference. i think there are other ways to make a difference than willfully making yourself a pawn for a government that has made decisions you personally don't believe in. which is what i think is going on today (as you correctly pointed out--most of my grievance has to do with today's conflict). but i DO understand the history of the matter, and i think back to the cavalier attitude that MANY young men had about the great wars and I don't understand how you can have such tremendous blind faith in them, treating them like gods. like wtf is that? it's like a worship day. i feel like the sentiment that some of you have is overkill.

I'll accept that some people volunteered for dubious reasons, others for honorable ones. In the Second Great War my maternal grandfather volunteered the very day Canada declared war on Germany... he did so because he wanted to help free his ancestral home (his father was born in Germany) of the Nazis and because he feared German aggression would threaten the entire world. My paternal grandfather volunteered when he learned that conscription would be enacted because he feared being conscripted and though volunteering was more honorable. So one grandfather joined because he wanted to help rid the world of Nazism, the other joined because he figured he's have to go anyway and choosing to was better then being forced. One of them landed on Juno beach where his closest friend was promptly shot and a fragment of the bullet that killed his friend exited his friend and tore his knee open. He continued to fight and eventually made it off the beach despite dragging his right leg and suffering a life long impairment. The other served in a field ambulance crew and lost two partners to land mines while recovering wounded soldiers going on to be deathly frightened of loud noises and flashes of light for the rest of his life. I don't think it matters which joined for which reason as their actions were equally noble and their sacrifices equally appreciated.

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree right, so point being hitler or no hitler, we still had pretty fucked up racist values of our own that took decades of internal social evolution to counter, not foreign policy which was basically whatever the US or Britain did. Canada was always a gimp according to my historical studies.

then your parents chose to come to gimpland which makes them super gimps (that smell like curry).

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard I'll accept that some people volunteered for dubious reasons, others for honorable ones. In the Second Great War my maternal grandfather volunteered the very day Canada declared war on Germany... he did so because he wanted to help free his ancestral home (his father was born in Germany) of the Nazis and because he feared German aggression would threaten the entire world. My paternal grandfather volunteered when he learned that conscription would be enacted because he feared being conscripted and though volunteering was more honorable. So one grandfather joined because he wanted to help rid the world of Nazism, the other joined because he figured he's have to go anyway and choosing to was better then being forced. One of them landed on Juno beach where his closest friend was promptly shot and a fragment of the bullet that killed his friend exited his friend and tore his knee open. He continued to fight and eventually made it off the beach despite dragging his right leg and suffering a life long impairment. The other served in a field ambulance crew and lost two partners to land mines while recovering wounded soldiers going on to be deathly frightened of loud noises and flashes of light for the rest of his life. I don't think it matters which joined for which reason as their actions were equally noble and their sacrifices equally appreciated.

that's fucking awesome and thanks for sharing!!! I love your grandfather already. it's stories like that that I'm talking about which makes me very sad on remembrance day, or for that matter when i see a clip of war on TV.

and jay, by the time my dad chose to come to Toronto (late 70s) most of that change had already occurred so it wasn't so gimpy. although he probably did smell like curry...the same way i smell like pasta

i heard hitler had good intentions anyway..

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree right, so point being hitler or no hitler, we still had pretty fucked up racist values of our own that took decades of internal social evolution to counter, not foreign policy which was basically whatever the US or Britain did. Canada was always a gimp according to my historical studies.

I'm not sure that you can really make that claim. Just because our interests were in-line with the UK in the first and Second Great Wars, with the UN for Korea and the first Gulf War, and with NATO for the Afghanistan War doesn't make us wimps so much as a good ally. For a country with this much territory and so few people good allies are important... in order to have them we must also be one.

quote:

Originally posted by XaNaX how is 2 minutes of silence = to treating someone like a god. Two minutes isn't a lot to give someone who prevented me from having to wear a swastika and worship Hitler and who kept people who were of "undesirable" race or religion out of labor camps and gas chambers.

agreed!

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree that's fucking awesome and thanks for sharing!!! I love your grandfather already. it's stories like that that I'm talking about which makes me very sad on remembrance day, or for that matter when i see a clip of war on TV. and jay, by the time my dad chose to come to Toronto (late 70s) most of that change had already occurred so it wasn't so gimpy. although he probably did smell like curry...the same way i smell like pasta

the values in the 70's were possible because of what happened in the 30's/40's so sorry no dice.

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree that's fucking awesome and thanks for sharing!!! I love your grandfather already. it's stories like that that I'm talking about which makes me very sad on remembrance day, or for that matter when i see a clip of war on TV.

don't you think that most veterens have a story like that?

quote:

Originally posted by yankeeBaby agreed!

+1
I somehow missed this.

There is a good chance I'd have to wear one or be dead if not what my family fought for...against the other side of my family.

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