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-- the recent TOTA "DJ" Self-Promo / Lingo/ Attitude problem
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Originally posted by jon jon Graham, you could speak on my behalf anytime, you're very articulate.

quote:

Originally posted by The Highroller Oh come off it Jay. Here's a cookie. Feel better now?

hey, im just stating how i feel like everyone else! And i do think i have made some valid points. And if you wont stand up for yourself, who will?

I personally don't see a problem with any of the roll call/review/picture threads etc....what I do find extremely annoying is when promoters/DJ's constantly shove events or self promotion in my face. At the end of the day they're only hurting themselves because it gets to the point where I'm so sick of seeing/hearing their name I'm like "ok, i get it for the 15th time...fuck off already", and more than likely won't support the event.

quote:

Originally posted by jon jon Obviously Josh, but ideally wouldn't you rather have a msgboard where people enjoy the content rather than excelling at ignoring peoples comments.

Jon don't get me wrong, I agree with you on much of what you have to say.
However disagree with your opinion about maximizing the quality of content on the message board.

John Stuart Mill argues that the best way to come up with good content is to have no restrictions, which then allow for the greatest variety of ideas to be brought forth.
From the ideas can be objected to, defended and either accepted or rejected by the masses.

I know its a bit much to apply utilitarian philosophy to tranceaddict, but i just don't like the idea of having overly restrictive laws about what you can and can't post.

I would rather make my own decisions about what i want to read, rather than not have the option to read it at all in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by shanny I would rather make my own decisions about what i want to read, rather than not have the option to read it at all in the first place.

And after 150+ replies and over 2500 views, I don't think a single thing has to, or will change.

quote:

Originally posted by shanny but i just don't like the idea of having overly restrictive laws about what you can and can't post. I would rather make my own decisions about what i want to read, rather than not have the option to read it at all in the first place.

You summed up the way I feel once again very well Josh.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 ive all but given up trying to tell anyone here about my show which i will restate I DONT MAKE ANY MONEY OR PROMOTION FROM. Its become painfully obvious that TOTA doesnt support its own when it comes to music or music related events. Whether a TOTA is making money or not the point is that everyone should support each other. But instead all i see is "inb4dalock".. "spam" and now this thread. Unless it's a certain small clique, forget about it! FFS people! Why can i go and talk about my radio show on other boards ive never ever been to but on the board i actually post on people have a problem with it? Its not like im trying to sell viagara or travel packages! ITS A MUSIC BOARD! Or at least i thought it was. Look at this point i dont care about promoting the show here anymore and thats not the point of this post. The point is that you guys need to take a hard look at what you call a "community" because from where i sit right now this looks more like a bunch of people who post on the same board as opposed to a community.

Well i, for one (and probably the only one), totally and completely agree with you. I don't see how your radio show is any different from RJ's radio. This board has become nothing but an ass-kissing fest where the "cool" people do basically what they want and the other people get shit on.

One of the big reasons why Carlos and i barely go on this board anymore. It's all bitching, whinning, catfights, ganging up on people, and making little nasty/totally irrelevant comments that everyone jumps on afterwards and goes "OMG HA HA HA YOU ARE SOOOO FUNNY OMG COOL GUY! HA HA". Lame, lame, lame. Grow up.

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Originally posted by loca Well i, for one (and probably the only one), totally and completely agree with you.

No, i agree as well.....

quote:

Originally posted by shanny I would rather make my own decisions about what i want to read, rather than not have the option to read it at all in the first place.

My critiques were less about censorship and more about raising the standard in people's "dj/ promoter self-promotional" posts. John Stuart Mill... crazyness

quote:

Originally posted by 5hiftn6ears At the end of the day they're only hurting themselves because it gets to the point where I'm so sick of seeing/hearing their name I'm like "ok, i get it for the 15th time...fuck off already", and more than likely won't support the event.

that is what i meant when i said that people will do the opposite of what you try to make them do.

quote:

Originally posted by loca Well i, for one (and probably the only one), totally and completely agree with you. I don't see how your radio show is any different from RJ's radio. This board has become nothing but an ass-kissing fest where the "cool" people do basically what they want and the other people get shit on.

Difference # 1 - What does Jayx1's show do for TA? Does it even mention it ever? Does it have a link on the website?

Where is the info about this radio show?

quote:

Originally posted by loca I don't see how your radio show is any different from RJ's radio.

There are numerous non-profit radio stations/radio shows (most internet-only) that are announced on TA. ETN.fm, 2HP.ca, Amplified Radio, Paradox are only a few (there are many more, just check some the other forums). Most of them feature TA DJs as well.

AFAIK for-profit based stations are limited in how they promote themselves on TA. Which makes sense - why should a for-profit entity use TA as a free marketing vehicle? TA is not a marketing spot for corporations and businesses - it's a site for music enthusiasts.

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Originally posted by loca Lame, lame, lame. Grow up.

With an attitude like that I'm not surprised you don't enjoy yourself on TA. How exactly do you expect people to respond to someone with that type of approach?

Like anything else: You get out of it what you put in.

quote:

Originally posted by jon jon My critiques were less about censorship and more about raising the standard in people's "dj/ promoter self-promotional" posts. John Stuart Mill... crazyness

I know thats what you meant when this started Jon, it just seemed like this thread took more changes in directions than Lisa-Loo trying to find her way on a road trip, and that was one of the directions I thought it was taking.

quote:

Originally posted by shanny I know thats what you meant when this started Jon

I think there just weren't enough people that agreed with that original theory, hence the reason 20,000 other things were brought up and discussed instead.

Meh. TOTA threads always get hijacked

RJ, so non profit radio promo w/ TA content/promo is ok and others aren't? I'm not sure if I'm reading you correctly and I just want to make sure.

quote:

Originally posted by shanny Lisa-Loo

!!!!!

no comments from Lisa but because she gets mentioned, she wins!

Thanks Jon - this is a good thread! I've been reading it since it started but I didn't want to get involved until some more comments were made... lots of good points were raised by you, RJ and others.

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree I'm still waiting on opinions on what is acceptable for 'promoting'. IE, what is fair game and what is not tacky? House parties? (I'm guessing cottage parties fall under this) 3 TAs having fun? (wings night, or any pre meet for a dinner b/f an event?) 'Non conventional gigs'? (Global village nights?)

These are fine... However, it does get annoying when you know an 'event' is only for a handful of people and those same group just chatter amongst themselves aimlessly. Seriously, it's great that you got really drunk, but, if there were only 10 of you there it's safe to spare us the details (unless of course there was drunken sex/shenanigans involved, because that's always interesting).

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 ive all but given up trying to tell anyone here about my show which i will restate I DONT MAKE ANY MONEY OR PROMOTION FROM. Its become painfully obvious that TOTA doesnt support its own when it comes to music or music related events. Whether a TOTA is making money or not the point is that everyone should support each other.

It doesn't matter that you don't make any money from it - fact of the matter is that you're promoting something - a show that is part of a radio station. Knowing that TA fits into your target market means it is worthwhile for you to post - for it brings listeners to your show/station and helps brand your show/station which can then continue off-line via word of mouth at clubs/msn/emailed links or being added to a mailing list. Also, it's not as if the station (or even your show?) is free of commercials - which I doubt are provided free of charge.

Years ago it was ok to let the odd thing slide - its not worth enforcing... but, as time goes on others begin to push the boundaries and eventually ruin it for everyone. They come on a few days earlier, announce their radio show only to return an hour before show time to plug the thread for more exposure. I would usually just close the thread and leave the info in there - so the message still got out there but stood no risk of being continually bumped up. The problem gets bad real fast when a large number of people come on to promote their radio shows/internet streams and before you know it half the page is full of links to streams with 4 listeners.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 ive all but given up But instead all i see is "inb4dalock".. "spam" and now this thread. Unless it's a certain small clique, forget about it!

What is this clique you refer to? In the past you've brought up this radio issue and you assumed there was favouritism on the board until I referenced you to threads from the months prior that were all closed and radio related - yet - here you are again making the same accusations. Feel free to PM me or reply in here with specific links.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 FFS people! Why can i go and talk about my radio show on other boards ive never ever been to but on the board i actually post on people have a problem with it?

There is a problem specifically because I don't want TA to become one of those 'other boards' - where people who don't participate come on and just post a link and don't come back until they need to bump the thread and/or post another one!


ROLL CALLS

At one time I thought of automating this - simply go to the event thread and click that you're going and you're on the roll call. I may still do this but I won't remove the standard roll call threads. Why not? Well, roll calls are personal - some people go to great lengths to organize a list of links/relevant photos/meetup locations/pre-dinners/meetups/etc. - these are things that build community, removing them will make things boring. Half of what makes a party is anticipation - and a party with a good vibe coincides with a crowd that is anticipating something that they think was worth the wait/excitement leading up to it.

It's hard to control the bumping - perhaps one remedy would be that if a user has already posted in a roll call thread that subsequent replies within that same thread do not bump it - that would be relatively easy to set up - assuming people put 'roll call' in the title..otherwise, it'll involve a bit more work.

I'm also against roll calls started by promoters that are then not updated AT ALL!

Re:Making it so promoters can't start roll calls

This won't work -- you'll just get the more popular promoters with friends to have one of them post the thread for them - or - they'll just sign up with another account and do it.


PICTURE THREADS

For the most part these were only really put up by Shaya (cuz he always did) and Chinamon(because he takes pics for TA) - and - others put up their own picture threads the odd time. I really don't see this as a problem (at this stage) - but - it can become one when more people do it for promo reasons --- which is why the new forum has an integrated photo gallery.


EVENT FORUM/THREADS

No problems in here - everything is smooth... I'd say the only problem is those people who like to come into other events and either trash the DJ or let everyone know where they're going instead.


Event Listings/Pic Threads/Reviews all-in-1

When the Event Forum first went in I anticipated this being a good idea - even to the extent of adjusting the forum for past events to display the links for Review/Pic threads in a simple way. See here. that eventually died out because I didn't code the necessary functions to allow the original poster of the event to link to those threads on their own. I'm still undecided on whether I'll add this functionality to the new forums but if I do it will be for both event starters and moderators. Another problem is dead links -- if you click on any of the camera icons in that link above you'll be lucky to find one that works - which sucks - so the new gallery will allow you to post pictures for a specific event (not sure if I'm going to allow personal user galleries yet).

The added bonus of setting up something like this is that you can then classify certain threads as being 'reviews' - so - when you go to search you can type in the name of a DJ and choose that you only want search results that are reviews and then you have an easier way of finding what you want. This also makes it possible for the implementation of DJ/producer profile pages with relevant thread links automatically showing up and being kept up to date automatically.

I'm almost done the event forum part of things so it'll make it possible for any regional area that wants it to have a fully functional events sub-forum.


Where is this new forum... seems like its taking forever

Yup, it's been a while. These forums are running a heavily modified version 2 of vBulletin.. ... when I put up the event forum I was waiting for the official release of version 3 (it was still in beta) - then the developers decided to program a version with a completely different set of code (version 3.5) and kept updating version 3 while keeping 3.5 in beta. This went on for a while and after over a year delay 3.5 finally went out of beta (fall 2005). Lots of the larger forums who already made the move to 3.0 were scared to move to 3.5 because of the performance problems lots of the people were having -- many are still on 3.0 because apparently 3.5/3.6 is slower and they can't take that risk. I'm going to take the plunge in the coming months and hope it's not too bad...either way a hardware/server upgrade is likely in order just to cope with all the new overhead.

If you're curious you can always go here and take a look - keep in mind that the navigation bars/colours/etc aren't complete so some stuff will look horrid. Alot has been changed but more is to be done since customization takes time. The username/passwords/threads/posts go back to March of this year, so, if you've changed your password/username just use your old info. For those interested, one of the main headaches has been fixing the search function -- webmasters of vb forums with 3+ million posts have pretty much given up on Search and either limit the results to 200 entries or make it so you have to be registered in only to Search and can only perform a search a minute. TA won't be like that, the new search will be open to everyone. It also wont force you to restrict your search by date or make you search each year individually...luckily there's a new custom way to do things that is provided by software from a 3rd party.

Right now I'm fixing what it looks like when you post a reply/new thread - it's horribly laid out and should reflect more what we have now (but that's what you get for having a dark-coloured forum). If you're curious and you click that ink then you can select different colour schemes at the bottom left. As requested, there will also be a work friendly one that will default to no signatures/avatars/etc.


General Stuff

I know a lot of you see that things should be one way or the other on here but you have to remember to look at things from a larger scale. One thread/post/whatever is NOT the problem - the problem is when you let that thread/post go and then others use it as leverage in doing the same. Eventually, you're forced to restrict certain things across the board because if you don't you'll be accused of playing favourites. It's really hard to stay objective in a political scene...when DJs ask you to delete/edit posts and you say you can't, when club owners/promoters even offer you money to do the same and you say you can't. About once a month I'll get an email from some random who doesn't like what someone said about him/her on here and they they threaten libel suits (mostly from USA though, lol) - it gets tiresome.

Also, one thing that bothers me are the people who spam their sites on here (not just TOTA, all of TA) but don't bother to include TA as a link anywhere on their site.

Shit, that was a long post..but I hope it addressed some things... I probably missed alot so I'll keep this thread open.

For those who want a summary -- Most people like TA until they're told they can't do something

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree RJ, so non profit radio promo w/ TA content/promo is ok and others aren't? I'm not sure if I'm reading you correctly and I just want to make sure.

Yohan, you are asking the wrong person.

It's Del that decides. Why is everyone on RJ and his station. lol. I think it's funny.

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess Yohan, you are asking the wrong person. It's Del that decides. Why is everyone on RJ and his station. lol. I think it's funny.

LOL. I'm not on RJ, but he did answer the question...

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper It doesn't matter that you don't make any money from it - fact of the matter is that you're promoting something - a show that is part of a radio station. Knowing that TA fits into your target market means it is worthwhile for you to post - for it brings listeners to your show/station and helps brand your show/station which can then continue off-line via word of mouth at clubs/msn/emailed links or being added to a mailing list. Also, it's not as if the station (or even your show?) is free of commercials - which I doubt are provided free of charge. Years ago it was ok to let the odd thing slide - its not worth enforcing... but, as time goes on others begin to push the boundaries and eventually ruin it for everyone. They come on a few days earlier, announce their radio show only to return an hour before show time to plug the thread for more exposure. I would usually just close the thread and leave the info in there - so the message still got out there but stood no risk of being continually bumped up. The problem gets bad real fast when a large number of people come on to promote their radio shows/internet streams and before you know it half the page is full of links to streams with 4 listeners.

Ok. This policy sounds fine, but it does not answer the question of why some radio shows seems to be allowed to have stream threads while others do not. (2hp being an example and UKTA radio being another)

I'm not against any of the stations by any means. But it does need to be clarified, ie, does some station have an 'official' status of some sort within TA?

quote:

For those who want a summary -- Most people like TA until they're told they can't do something

Hahahaha!

Thanks for the clarification posts Del.

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper

<3

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper It's really hard to stay objective in a political scene...when DJs ask you to delete/edit posts and you say you can't, when club owners/promoters even offer you money to do the same and you say you can't.

awesome

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper These are fine... However, it does get annoying when you know an 'event' is only for a handful of people and those same group just chatter amongst themselves aimlessly. Seriously, it's great that you got really drunk, but, if there were only 10 of you there it's safe to spare us the details (unless of course there was drunken sex/shenanigans involved, because that's always interesting).

I mentioned the house parties purely because I find all the reviewing and stuff annoying, I think tho that they are fine too. Don't necessarily wanting them removed, I will just skip them.

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper ROLL CALLS At one time I thought of automating this - simply go to the event thread and click that you're going and you're on the roll call. I may still do this but I won't remove the standard roll call threads. Why not? Well, roll calls are personal - some people go to great lengths to and organize a list of links/relevant photos/meetup locations/pre-dinners/meetups/etc. - these are things that build community, removing them will make things boring. Half of what makes a party is anticipation - and a party with a good vibe coincides with a crowd that is anticipating something that they think was worth the wait/excitement leading up to it. It's hard to control the bumping - perhaps one remedy would be that if a user has already posted in a roll call thread that subsequent replies within that same thread do not bump it - that would be relatively easy to set up - assuming people put 'roll call' in the title..otherwise, it'll involve a bit more work. I'm also against roll calls started by promoters that are then not updated AT ALL! Re:Making it so promoters can't start roll calls This won't work -- you'll just get the more popular promoters with friends to have one of them post the thread for them - or - they'll just sign up with another account and do it. PICTURE THREADS For the most part these were only really put up by Shaya (cuz he always did) and Chinamon(because he takes pics for TA) - and - others put up their own picture threads the odd time. I really don't see this as a problem (at this stage) - but - it can become one when more people do it for promo reasons --- which is why the new forum has an integrated photo gallery. EVENT FORUM/THREADS No problems in here - everything is smooth... I'd say the only problem is those people who like to come into other events and either trash the DJ or let everyone know where they're going instead. Event Listings/Pic Threads/Reviews all-in-1 When the Event Forum first went in I anticipated this being a good idea - even to the extent of adjusting the forum for past events to display the links for Review/Pic threads in a simple way. See here. that eventually died out because I didn't code the necessary functions to allow the original poster of the event to link to those threads on their own. I'm still undecided on whether I'll add this functionality to the new forums but if I do it will be for both event starters and moderators. Another problem is dead links -- if you click on any of the camera icons in that link above you'll be lucky to find one that works - which sucks - so the new gallery will allow you to post pictures for a specific event (not sure if I'm going to allow personal user galleries yet). The added bonus of setting up something like this is that you can then classify certain threads as being 'reviews' - so - when you go to search you can type in the name of a DJ and choose that you only want search results that are reviews and then you have an easier way of finding what you want. This also makes it possible for the implementation of DJ/producer profile pages with relevant thread links automatically showing up and being kept up to date automatically. I'm almost done the event forum part of things so it'll make it possible for any regional area that wants it to have a fully functional events sub-forum.

Perfect.

Thank you Swamper. Thank you for some sanity in this mental world. You rock.

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper

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