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-- UCLA police taser a student
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Originally posted by Leferikson Ok, so this is regarding the statement of the supreme court or w/e. Are some of you really saying that if the government says it's justfied, that it really is. If the supreme court says that it's ok to "randomly stop" people and ask for id, then that's ok? When does it start to violate the basic rights of people, even if the court says it's ok. The government exists for the people, and the people alone. If a system doesn't work to benefit the well-being of its citizens, then it's time for a change. Actions like this show me that the government is getting too powerful, and not minding the individuals.

I used to get IDed at highschool in NYC...this is not a NEW thing with IDs.

Well, I can't say I find it particularly surprising that this incident took place. I mean, it just goes without saying that if you give tasers to a bunch of idiots, sooner or later some of them are going to use them when they shouldn't.

So... I guess the fact that the inevitable happened doesn't particularly evoke any emotional response. Yeah, the officers are idiots, and they therefore have behaved idiotically. No surprise there, go ahead and draw and quarter them if you like or just suggest to them that they might be more judicious next time with the taser use. I really don't see that it makes any difference one way or the other, there's plenty of other idiots out there just waiting to make asses out of themselves when the opportunity presents itself. And if you give them tasers, they no doubt will...

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Originally posted by tiesto14 what

I think what he means is, you're so sure about this kid's personality and entire upbringing, and that his parents are cushy millionaires, and that he probably "thinks America is a police state and all we do i push people around.", yet these don't seem to have any relevance to what happened in the slightest, other than to infer that it "served him right"

waste of time - but needs to be said! sorry it's off topic!

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Originally posted by all-nite-freak they should have used a cattle prod on you

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Originally posted by all-nite-freak I meant dallastar but with you it takes on whole new meaning. works either way.

Awwww, poor fukkin asshole, having a bad day? So you decide to be an asshole to the only girl you love to insult and vent on in the cOr? serioulsy Fuk of ANF, your mother obviously didn't teach you how to be civil, kooth or how to treat a women with respect.

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Originally posted by Lomeli He's persian.

OK!
*fixed - sawry

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Originally posted by tiesto14 Because more than half the time some liberal moans about it they only see a grainy video taken by some half twit after the initial incident.

Ya know, tiesto, I was actually agreeing with your arguments so far, but this is where that agreement ends.

What the fuck does liberal vs. conservative have anything to do with this incident? You don't think conservatives, or especially libertarians shouldn't be disappointed or even upset over our law enforcement overstepping their boundaries? Should a conservative or libertarian (and I'm not joining the two together by that statement, btw) think it's just swell that our law enforcement might be infringing upon a person's basic rights here? Do political whinings and bullshit fingerpoints on libruls versus conservatives have any context at all with this incident?

Do you really want to approach this from this logically inconsistent angle, or can we keep to the discussion without any silly political leanings?

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Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Ya know, tiesto, I was actually agreeing with your arguments so far, but this is where that agreement ends. What the fuck does liberal vs. conservative have anything to do with this incident? You don't think conservatives, or especially libertarians shouldn't be disappointed or even upset over our law enforcement overstepping their boundaries? Should a conservative or libertarian (and I'm not joining the two together by that statement, btw) think it's just swell that our law enforcement might be infringing upon a person's basic rights here? Do political whinings and bullshit fingerpoints on libruls versus conservatives have any context at all with this incident? Do you really want to approach this from this logically inconsistent angle, or can we keep to the discussion without any silly political leanings?

lol thats the problem with this bullshit
every time we (liberals) state something, it seems like tiesto needs to either state that what we said is completely untrue, irrelevant, or besides the point
just because we have different political views doesn't mean we have to disagree on everything
now that the plur part's out of the way, tiesto: shut the fuck up
you're wrong

I got a pair of red x's, I guess I'll wait for the flop!

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 ...

slightly off topic:
considering that it's not very easy to leave your country and to have a serious effect by yourself on the laws of your country, an individual sometimes only has two options, to comply or to resist.
can you show how choosing to comply is always the most beneficial course of action for the individual? or at the very least, how it is by default the most beneficial course of action for the individual?

Re: waste of time - but needs to be said! sorry it's off topic!

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Originally posted by dallastar Awwww, poor fukkin asshole, having a bad day? So you decide to be an asshole to the only girl you love to insult and vent on in the cOr? serioulsy Fuk of ANF, your mother obviously didn't teach you how to be civil, kooth or how to treat a women with respect.

moo?

Re: Re: waste of time - but needs to be said! sorry it's off topic!

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Originally posted by all-nite-freak moo?

seriously, fuk off, grow up, & talk about the issue at hand or get the fuk out!

where we talking about tasers or when animals attack?

If someone of authority tells you to do something, you better damn well do it.

I don't necessarily agree with that level of tazering either, however, you don't mouth off authority AFTER being tazered a couple of times.

Did he think he was being smart or something?
Sure he would have been pissed off for being tazered to begin with (who wouldn't?) but he obviously choose the wrong path in trying to be defiant.

If you don't agree with me, next time you get pulled over by a cop, try the same path this goof did and see how far you get.

And yes he did say he was going to leave, so why not just do it?

As for the officers, personally, a couple of tazersings and then carry the idiot out; it's not like they couldn't have.

I'd wait for the full inquiry as well but I'm going to guess there might be some reprimand for the officer with the tazer and as for the student, being asked a hundred times to stand up when you're still mouthing off, isn't too bright.

Apparently, nearly all of us are wrong. You know there's more than one side to a story right? Well here's the other side (eye witnesses, sober people and such):
http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/s...36&page=1&pp=10

DAMN IT. The guy probably did deserve every jolt of pain sent into his body, and now we're mad at the wrong people.

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Originally posted by Psy-T slightly off topic: considering that it's not very easy to leave your country and to have a serious effect by yourself on the laws of your country, an individual sometimes only has two options, to comply or to resist. can you show how choosing to comply is always the most beneficial course of action for the individual? or at the very least, how it is by default the most beneficial course of action for the individual?

Well I hope I'm understanding your question here, but I guess my default answer is to comply with those law enforcers who have authority to detain you, question you, or subdue (sp?) you if necessary. I don't have statistics with me on this, nor would I know exactly where to get them, but more often than not I think it would be benefitical to everyone involved at least here in the U.S. for a person in question to comply with the officer at that moment rather than resist them regardless of whether or not your rights are being infringed at that moment. If that person in question feels his rights are being infringed upon after that point, that is where police complaints (i.e. getting badge numbers) as well as his day in court is supposed to take care of such infringements.

Does this always work out well? Of course not, and there's always going to be situations to which a person's rights will not be granted even after a day in court. But I do suspect that is the rare exception and not the rule - but I have little to support that notion admittely.

�Here�s your Patriot Act, here�s your fuckin� abuse of power��



Poor kid doesn't realize the patriot act doesn't deal with the circumstances that took place.

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Originally posted by Akridrot Apparently, nearly all of us are wrong. You know there's more than one side to a story right? Well here's the other side (eye witnesses, sober people and such): http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/s...36&page=1&pp=10 DAMN IT. The guy probably did deserve every jolt of pain sent into his body, and now we're mad at the wrong people.

I was about to have a change in opinion untill I repeatedly heard "whacko nutjob liberals" etc spewing from every single persons mouth in that discussion. Its not hard to see where their prejudices lie.

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Originally posted by Akridrot Apparently, nearly all of us are wrong. You know there's more than one side to a story right? Well here's the other side (eye witnesses, sober people and such): http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/s...36&page=1&pp=10 DAMN IT. The guy probably did deserve every jolt of pain sent into his body, and now we're mad at the wrong people.

I want more witnesses than someone who posts on the Tucker Max forum. If you don't know why, then you don't know much about Tucker Max.

Like i said before, just because you "HEAR" something on video, doesn't mean that what it really is or sounds like.

Take for example "I HAVE A MEDICAL CONDITION!!!"

Does that statement mean for a police to deviate from his training? No, that statements means more to the victim...FOLLOW THE POLICE OFFICERS ORDERS! There are people in the world who use statements like that to attempt to get free or gain an advantage.

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Originally posted by Akridrot Apparently, nearly all of us are wrong. You know there's more than one side to a story right? Well here's the other side (eye witnesses, sober people and such): http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/s...36&page=1&pp=10 DAMN IT. The guy probably did deserve every jolt of pain sent into his body, and now we're mad at the wrong people.

Of course there is more to the story - police did not enter a library, pick a random middle eastern person and harass him - and nobody here is really saying that - the simple fact is, troublemaker or not, he was met with undue subdual after saying he would leave.

As Swamper hinted at pages and pages ago, the quality of the camera footage seemed unusually good for being a cell phone camera - it was likely a digital camera - and, if so, why was somebody ready and waiting with a digital camera in a library? Seems supicious, almost as if this entire event was staged - but even if it were, why were the police so seemingly eager to deliver a predicted response?

The man met nobody else with violence, and was probably not yelling or causing raucous amounts of trouble and making a scene before he was threatened with authoritative action - no reports seem to truly indicate that he was "asking for it" prior to being investigated by campus police - so why/how did this happen?

This event is important because it signifies something much, much larger than this very incident. I am much more worried about the events that never get reported, the events that never get recorded and are in the public view and on youtube and in a fucking library in front of hundreds of other people for fuck's sake.

Maybe it is nothing - and I truly hope that this "paranoia" is false, I really do.

But if people's suspicions distrust of the government is true as indicated by what they allow to be shown in public and the things that clearly the public was not meant to see, then maybe the paranoid will have been proven correct.

Infringement is a very slow process, hard to notice as all of your rights as an individual human being are traded away for the illusion of safety and nothing more.

quote:

Originally posted by Akridrot Apparently, nearly all of us are wrong. You know there's more than one side to a story right? Well here's the other side (eye witnesses, sober people and such): http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/s...36&page=1&pp=10 DAMN IT. The guy probably did deserve every jolt of pain sent into his body, and now we're mad at the wrong people.

I'm really sorry I subjected myself to a few of those posts. It seems that Tiesto would feel right at home with all that lovely librul bashing taking place.

The one guy who seemed to have a cooler head stated the following and continued to defend himself pretty well despite the sophmoric namecalling and baiting:

quote:

After that point, however, he could easily have been dragged out of there without further tasering, and I think that's the point where it crossed into brutality. And the cop who told the student who asked for his badge number to go away or else she's be tasered, too, deserves to be fired.

It seems the majority of posters there felt the kid was an asshole and baited the cops into this whole thing. The "witness" (whom we know absolutely nothing about and could be Tucker's mother FFS thanx be to the anonymous "internets") pointed out how much of an asshole the guy was on more than a few occasions.

I don't dispute this point at all. The problem I have is how the officers enforced such an attitude in compliance with the law as well as their own taser policies. What it seems that a number of those posters there tend to do is put themselves in the shoes of the police and feel they have the exact same sentiments as the cops wanting to and ultimately tasing the kid. Perhaps I would too, but that's exactly what differentiates me and those nutsack posters from being actual officers. Officers are trained for such situations to not get carried off into emotion, to always and continually assess the situation with a rational mind much more beyond the point that an average citizen would likely do. A personal example is a friend of mine on the local police force had the unfortunate event of killing an armed woman whom was waving a gun around at the officers. He kept his cool and did everything he could to talk her down for over 10 minutes, but only when he saw her cock the hammer did he finally pull trigger.

My point with that story is that cops should be trained in such situations to know when to keep their cool when everyone else around them loses theirs, and clearly folks around them were getting riled up (as well as the douchebag in handcuffs). So the question I have and tend to believe where the officers are incorrect in their use of force is this: Can officers detain someone in handcuffs and tase them multiple times for not getting up off the ground, or do they have a policy stating that tasers are not utilized for such events?

I would tend to feel that the tasers were not to be used for such things considering that they could have just dragged him out instead rather than continually tase a handcuffed man which seemingly only incited the surrounding crowd that much more. I think this is the ultimate question the courts and Internal Affairs will examine. One event, however, that does not seem to be in question is the officer threatening the other student to get tased if he doesn't back off from asking for their badge numbers. That simply doesn't cut it.

Well, after reading this thread, some of tuckermax (why is that a bad site?) and watching the video again.. I really don't know what to think.

I can't even call the repeated tasering unjust because I've never been tasered, so I don't know if he really COULD get up. If he can scream "I have a medical condition," so loudly he can scream "I will get up, but can't because of the taser" or something similar.

Since we don't know what happened to make him YELL "DON'T TOUCH ME!!!" AT THE TOP OF HIS LUNGS, I really can't say what the fuck this. But this was still a good discussion.

I'm going to leave it at that.

Thats weird, over in America the police seem to be overly tough, yet over here they let the paramilitaries riot and walk all over them.
Thugs throw petrol bombs and rocks at the police and very little is done. If the police show any kind of force, and start giving the rioters a crack with their truncheons, or rubber bullets, there will be an investigation, by some moany fucking politician complaining about police being sectarian bastards and abusing their powers. You can't win.
Anyway, what exactly does a tazer do to you? Does it disable you completely so you can't move?

I think its safe to say both parties did not act in a civil manner.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis I think its safe to say both parties did not act in a civil manner.

We agree on that.

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