TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- Those pesky Iranians at it again.
Pages (12): « 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 »

quote:

Originally posted by venomX They're both proven liers. You're preference of believing your side of the story is a clear bias of living in the US. Now the interesting question is, if you have that bias, wouldn't others also have it? And if you can understand this concept, wouldn't you also espouse the belief that this type of intimidation and warmongering doesn't amount to anything else than escalation which will surely be followed by more war, more instability, more hunger and more suffering. Notice that in that list you'll never find anything positive, as with all wars. No war has ever brought any good, only of course the spoils for the victor. And if that is the point, the spoils, why cover it up and pretend you're doing good?

I kind of agree, but I'm way more inclined to believe members of nations who allow dissent and questioning of the government than those from nations where dissent is stifled and bloggers are jailed.

Also, Iran isn't doing themselves any favors by breaking Geneva Convention protocol by parading the UK soldiers on TV.

Lastly, for all the people storming the UK embassy in Iran demanding the heads of these 15 people, EVEN IF your maps and GPS were right, it was less than 1.5 miles, on water. For fuck's sake, they weren't spying, or even searching an Iranian ship. They could have just as easily contacted the British ambassadors and registered a complaint about the whole issue.

But then again, if they'd have done that, their profit from increased oil sales wouldn't be up an average of nearly $100 million/day.

'US ready to strike Iran on Good Friday'

quote:

Source: Jerusalem post The United States will be ready to launch a missile attack on Iran's nuclear facilities as soon as early this month, perhaps "from 4 a.m. until 4 p.m. on April 6," according to reports in the Russian media on Saturday. According to Russian intelligence sources, the reports said, the US has devised a plan to attack several targets in Iran, and an assault could be carried out by launching missiles from fighter jets and warships stationed in the Persian Gulf. Russian news agency RIA Novosti quoted a security official as saying, "Russian intelligence has information that the US Armed Forces stationed in the Persian Gulf have nearly completed preparations for a missile strike. The Russian Defense Ministry rejected the claims of an imminent attack as "myths." There was no immediate response from Washington. The reports come as the Iranian chief of staff, Hassan Fayrouz Abadi, was quoted on Saturday by Iran's Fars news agency warning leaders of Arab countries that Israel plans to open a "suicidal attack" on its neighbors this summer, to "prevent the withdrawal of the US troops from Iraq and the area." "I warn the dear leaders and Muslim brothers in the neighboring countries of the occupied territories that this suicidal attack of the Zionists is threatening them," he said. The countries in danger, he said, were "Lebanon and Syria, and later Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia." Also on Saturday, Russia urged Britain and Teheran to resolve the dispute over 15 British sailors and marines captured by Iran last week, a local news agency reported. Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Mikhail Kamynin urged the two sides to provide the United Nations with their own assessments as to what happened and where exactly the detention occurred so that the body could conduct an independent probe.

The rest can be found here: HERE



Another source: HERE


I dont know what to believe here,I just hope this is all a myth and just some tactics trying toscare Iran to release the british hostages.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Shibby Calling someone a liberal is not sufficient grounds for a counterpoint.

you're right. thats why i criticized his attempt to simplify the matter by implying that both parties lie was in no way an answer to the problem at hand and found his insight on war was utopian at best.

ultimately, the quote "In order to eliminate discrimination, the modern liberal has opted to become utterly indiscriminate" was my rebuttal and i think it applies to only one world view, and that would be his, the modern liberal's.

you've prolly already noticed i'm not that big on diatribes. i'm not that fluent of thought. i like to keep my points as short and succinct but effective as i think possible.

quote:

Originally posted by ******** THERE IS NO LEGITIMATE REASON FOR WAR IN IRAN, other than politics.

i totally agree. nothing Iran has done, however, would imply that they agree with us. so...........

the dteails are sketchy, but it was a cotentious littoral (sea coast) area. by the looks of it, if they were in Iranian waters they were a few thousand yards in at best.

or just enough to be confused about it in inflatable rib boats without proper navigational equipment such as the ones the Brits were in.

they [the Brits] are under a UN mandate to check outgoing vessels from an Iraqi port for contraband. nothing unusual there.

this is not Iran's war. or is it? who the f**k knows. only they do.

if it indeed is a "relatively small area" then what is Iran's malfunction? if it is so easy for you and i to understand that, then why can't Iran?

i'll tell you why. this is a game to them. not some misunderstanding over a marine demarcation.

quote:

Originally posted by ******** The area is a relatively 'small area'.

The Shatt al-Arab waterway is a disputed point of demarcation, ever since the around the start of last century. It's a fuzzy area where Iran thinks they own this bit and the rest of the world (most notably Iraq in 1975 after the Algiers agreement which eventually blew up into the Iran-Iraq war in 1980 or so) sees it as being somewhere else.

quote:

If a bunch of Iranian soldiers happened to stray into The english channel or a KM from Bristol you think the Brits would be all rosy? What if Russia was at war with France at the time?

Now you're just ranging into the unreasonably hypothetical rather than the plausible.

quote:

Originally posted by ******** p.s. you also better be damn straight the BBC and CNN would have it on the evening NEWS I can see it now THE IRANIANS ARE COMING, THE IRANIANS ARE COMING!!! the bad joke.. what 15 British sailors in a rib boat can't take the Iranian navy? The discrace.

haha

Two rubber dingys v 6 armoured patrol vessels and a chopper they wouldn't stand a chance, unless they had Chuck Norris.

quote:

If a bunch of Iranian soldiers happened to stray into The english channel or a KM from Bristol you think the Brits would be all rosy?

Of course not, but according to our GPS they were in Iraqi waters but as it's been stated it's a highly constested stretch of sea.

I heard earlier they involved in negotiations at the moment. Looks like they'll come to agreement soon and this silly situation will be over.

Re: 'US ready to strike Iran on Good Friday'

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer The rest can be found here: HERE Another source: HERE I dont know what to believe here,I just hope this is all a myth and just some tactics trying toscare Iran to release the british hostages.

It is all scaremongering and playing to the hawks in Israel and the U.S. that believe the only solution to any problem is with force.

Anyone who knows even a little bit about how the Defence department works knows that there are hundreds if not thousands of strike plans written up and "ready to go" on short notice for a whole bunch of situations all over the world. With today's global reach of air power and the ease of targeting of modern munitions, it literally would take less than 24 hours to launch a surgical strike with planes based in the U.S. and a matter of minutes to load a targeting package into tomahawks on one of the dozen+ ships in the Persian Gulf and press the little red button.

The fact is that none of the players in this want a shooting war over the situation, the Iranian regime (and to a lesser extent the U.K. and U.S.) are using this to bolster domestic support for their positions on a host of issues. "Showing backbone" is the only language some people understand, and events like this play to those constituents.


MrS

Actually, the resports about a possible US strike remind me of the days before the US launched a strike on Iraq...back in 1991.

If Iran was innocent in all of this, they wouldnt be parading the 15 captured Brits on state-run TV stations. They also wouldnt have gotten into some heat with the Saudis over territorial crossings several months back.
Iran's only semi-ally right now is Russia. The problem for Russia is the U.S. was smart enough to cooperate and collaborate with former Soviet countries like Georgia. All the former Soviet satellite states are trying to distance themselves from Russia and move closer to NATO and the U.S. Gee, now I wonder why all those countries don't want to be associated with the government in Moscow? I wonder what people in Hungary or the Czech Republic think of the Soviet Union when they look back at those times they tried to break away from it?

Whatever happens to Iran, chances are this WON'T lead to a World War. What it will do is scare the shit out of leaders in North Korea, Venezuela, and especially Syria. Hell, why do you guys think a bunch of Democrat leaders were visiting Syria this past week?...

quote:

Originally posted by CHRles If Iran was innocent in all of this, they wouldnt be parading the 15 captured Brits on state-run TV stations.

Because a parade of the enemy somehow constitutes, uhh, guilt? I'm afraid you lost me on that one.

quote:

They also wouldnt have gotten into some heat with the Saudis over territorial crossings several months back.

You seem a bit eager to tie in their conflicts with the Saudis with this issue with the British. I'm not seeing the connection you are attempting to make very well, nor do I see how their tiffs with the Saudis somehow constitute guilt with the capture of the Brits. Your leaps of logic to your conclusions are becoming quite large.

quote:

Whatever happens to Iran, chances are this WON'T lead to a World War. What it will do is scare the shit out of leaders in North Korea, Venezuela, and especially Syria. Hell, why do you guys think a bunch of Democrat leaders were visiting Syria this past week?...

Yes, Kim Jong-il is really quaking in his boots lately, ain't he? Chavez really is just dying to make-nice with Bush, right? And al-Asad, well, those visits suggested by Baker's Iraq Study Group and put forth by both Democratic and Republican Congressmen REALLY seem to have put al-Asad on a defensive stance, hasn't it?

Or maybe, just maybe this whole thing with the captured Brits has to deal with something else. Cast your mind back to that warm, soothing cup of cider on Christmas morn, when you had your comfies on and your favorite warm socks to cover your cold toesies, some very interesting things were developing elsewhere thanks entirely to Bush's lovely new "fuck you Iran" policy in Iraq:

quote:

The American military is holding at least four Iranians in Iraq, including men the Bush administration called senior military officials, who were seized in a pair of raids late last week aimed at people suspected of conducting attacks on Iraqi security forces, according to senior Iraqi and American officials in Baghdad and Washington. ... It was unclear what kind of evidence American officials possessed that the Iranians were planning attacks, and the officials would not identify those being held. ... Nonetheless, the two raids, in central Baghdad, have deeply upset Iraqi government officials, who have been making strenuous efforts to engage Iran on matters of security. At least two of the Iranians were in this country on an invitation extended by Iraq's president, Jalal Talabani, during a visit to Tehran earlier this month. It was particularly awkward for the Iraqis that one of the raids took place in the Baghdad compound of Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, one of Iraq's most powerful Shiite leaders, who traveled to Washington three weeks ago to meet President Bush. http://select.nytimes.com/search/re...DAB0994DE404482

Remember way back when, a whole 3 months ago? Things have become very interesting, and it's becoming quite likely it was the result of Bush's policies to make Iran the ultimate BOOGIEMAN of Iraq's problems rather than fess up to the ultimate chaos being the fault of both Bush's missteps and the Iraqi government:

quote:

The aim of the raid, launched without informing the Kurdish authorities, was to seize two men at the very heart of the Iranian security establishment. Better understanding of the seriousness of the US action in Arbil - and the angry Iranian response to it - should have led Downing Street and the Ministry of Defence to realise that Iran was likely to retaliate against American or British forces such as highly vulnerable Navy search parties in the Gulf. The two senior Iranian officers the US sought to capture were Mohammed Jafari, the powerful deputy head of the Iranian National Security Council, and General Minojahar Frouzanda, the chief of intelligence of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, according to Kurdish officials. The two men were in Kurdistan on an official visit during which they met the Iraqi President, Jalal Talabani, and later saw Massoud Barzani, the President of the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG), at his mountain headquarters overlooking Arbil. "They were after Jafari," Fuad Hussein, the chief of staff of Massoud Barzani, told The Independent. He confirmed that the Iranian office had been established in Arbil for a long time and was often visited by Kurds obtaining documents to visit Iran. "The Americans thought he [Jafari] was there," said Mr Hussein. http://news.independent.co.uk/world...icle2414760.ece

Hate to break it to you, but everything I say is on point. Had you been following global news more closely, reading between the lines, instead of blaming Bush for everything you'd see that too.

Talks open in Iran sailor dispute

Iran and Britain have opened talks to resolve the row over 15 British naval personnel seized in the Gulf, the secretary of Iran's security council told state television.

"The British government has started diplomatic discussions with the foreign ministry to resolve the issue of the British military personnel," Ali Larijani said on Tuesday.


Tony Blair, the British prime minister said the next 48 hours would be "fairly critical" in moves to free the sailors.

"We're not looking for confrontation over this and actually the most important thing is to get the people back safe and sound. And if they [Iran] want to resolve this in a diplomatic way, the door is open."

But later Blair warned Iran that if a negotiated solution was not reached Britain would "have to take increasingly tougher decisions".

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exe...420A57D2C0A.htm

quote:

Originally posted by CHRles Hate to break it to you, but everything I say is on point.

Well I'm sure glad it's because you say so. Perhaps a little more sourcing could help support your arguments a bit better?

But then again, if you did that, you wouldn't be "breaking" anything to me.

quote:

Had you been following global news more closely, reading between the lines, instead of blaming Bush for everything you'd see that too.

Bush's actions are very much a part of the damn predicament we're in right now in the Middle East. That much is well documented (to which I've done rather extensively on this forum over the years). Iraq is directly involved with our situation in Iran. Again, perhaps a bit more support of your argument with evidence rather than your conjecture and speculation from "reading between the lines" would give you a bit more credibility. Your handwaves of points that counters your argument won't get you very far here.

for WTF WAR

Iran & Britain now show tact policy

if this madass do it

DAMN HELL'll be occured

quote:

Tony Blair, the British prime minister said the next 48 hours would be "fairly critical" in moves to free the sailors. "We're not looking for confrontation over this and actually the most important thing is to get the people back safe and sound. And if they [Iran] want to resolve this in a diplomatic way, the door is open." But later Blair warned Iran that if a negotiated solution was not reached Britain would "have to take increasingly tougher decisions". http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exe...420A57D2C0A.htm

LOL, that's like jabbing someone in the gut then saying, "let's settle this in a civil manner, there's no need for violence." Blair is such an aweful liar tehe.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z LOL, that's like jabbing someone in the gut then saying, "let's settle this in a civil manner, there's no need for violence." Blair is such an aweful liar tehe.

Blair is a bit of bullshitter but his acting wisely. We're being civilised about this. The sooner out sailors are back the better and this situation can be brushed underneath the carpet.

Regardless of Blair and Bush being best mates and the mess in Iraq. These naval personnel deserve to be back on home shores and not be pawns between two nations. Iran in the whole course of this matter have acted like a load of fucking cowboys and I've lost whatever amount respect I had for them.

Ah in the old days we'd just roll in with a gun boat and this would be sorted over some tea and cucumber sandwiches... and a quick tour of the boats guns.

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish Ah in the old days we'd just roll in with a gun boat and this would be sorted over some tea and cucumber sandwiches... and a quick tour of the boats guns.

They'd bring sticks and stones we'd bring along rifles and cannons.

So let's recap what's been going on in the world lately:
North Korea shows willingness to disarm its nuke program
Syria has gotten silent, and in the process so has the situation in Lebanon. Remember how just a short time ago Lebanon was on the brink of another civil war, and Hizbollah threatened to pull out of the government and start daily protests on the streets of Beirut with hundreds of thousands of supporters? Like magic all that's gone.
The Sunnis in Iraq have also distanced themselves from Al-Quaeda and now see them as a threat/enemies.
So what will happen with Iran? Wait and see in the coming days/weeks

quote:

Originally posted by CHRles So let's recap what's been going on in the world lately: North Korea shows willingness to disarm its nuke program Syria has gotten silent, and in the process so has the situation in Lebanon. Remember how just a short time ago Lebanon was on the brink of another civil war, and Hizbollah threatened to pull out of the government and start daily protests on the streets of Beirut with hundreds of thousands of supporters? Like magic all that's gone. The Sunnis in Iraq have also distanced themselves from Al-Quaeda and now see them as a threat/enemies. So what will happen with Iran? Wait and see in the coming days/weeks

That shows that political dialogue is cheaper and more effective way to fix problems. Americans should call off their plans to attack Iran, because they can find a political solution. Imagine if they waited a big longer in 2003 and found a political compromise with Saddam. Or even better, assassinate Saddam and no need for an invasion. USA could have done yet another covert operation to overthrow a regime like the dozens they've done around the world before. So what that Cold War is over - that doesnt mean cover operations are obsolete as well. Imagine all the thousands of Iraqi civilians that would be alive today as a result. Invasion of Iran will only make things worse in the region. Did invasion of Iraq solve the problems?

Well...looks like it worked out in the end. Just an extended "vacation" in Iran for the sailors.

ahahhahh.. Charles.. you can eat shit.

The sailors were released... and ahmadinejad was seen laughing and smiling with them!!

watch out.. .the persians are coming!!

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King ahahhahh.. Charles.. you can eat shit. The sailors were released... and ahmadinejad was seen laughing and smiling with them!! watch out.. .the persians are coming!!

Time to get 300 NeoCons to kick that ass again.

Plus anyways, according to Hollywood the Persians are all gay anyways, so whats the point of bieng scared.. lol

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.