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- Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont.
-- Ontario Election 2007: (Vote October 10th)
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quote:

Originally posted by djbruuen the interesting thing about the green party is they went from being a joke, to now, where people are actually listening to them (except the media) if anyone has seen the 'student vote' the green party came in 2nd place. Green party is also progressively receiving more votes every year. In 15-20 years, i could see the green party neck and neck with the NDP, or a close 4th

Heck, even in Europe the Greens are huge and in change of some countries. In Canada, there's too much of that wasted vote mentality that I am so sick of, people continue to vote for liars and the "less of the two evils" doctrine, while things dont change.

By the way, anyone here voted for the Family Coalition Party (FCP)? They got some impressive numbers in some ridings. Not too bad of an agenda, either.

http://www.familycoalitionparty.com

what surprises me is how many seats the liberals have....I expected it to me somewhat closer but still a liberal majority. It goes to show that Ontario is still willing to give the Liberals another chance.....that being said the Conservatives had little chance as its rare that the Federal and Ontario Wining Parties are the same.

Electoral Reform Referendum (results at the moment)

Which electoral system should Ontario use to elect members to the provincial legislature?

Overall provincial vote (60%+ to pass)
Existing-FPTP - 62%
Proposed-MMP - 38%

Riding breakdown (64 ridings to pass)

Existing-FPTP - 32
Proposed-MMP 1 !!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by exstasie The only close race is the Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound riding..but it looks like Murdoch (PC) is going to take it. Close though!

Halton, my riding, is really close.....the liberal candidate is up by 2 votes as of the last update over the PC candidate....this riding has been a PC riding for a long time....I guess the population growth in Milton is making a real difference.

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced Halton, my riding, is really close.....the liberal candidate is up by 2 votes as of the last update over the PC candidate....this riding has been a PC riding for a long time....I guess the population growth in Milton is making a real difference.

Sorry, I meant the only close GREEN party race was Owen Sound. That dude was asking which riding could possibly go Green.

How fair is this - about 10 percent of Ontario population didnt vote for either NDP/Libs/Cons, but they're not going to be represented in the government. First-past-the-post is a sick mentality of one winner and many losers. In a way, votes dont really count in such a system.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium I live in an absolute shithole. No good clubs, parties, and one of the lowest Green Party results in entire province at 4.9 percent, including my vote. Most ridings have higher percentage for Greens now that I am checking out the CTV elections page. Embarassing. Shocking development, though, is Liberals overtook NDP over my riding (WOW!), so despite the McGuinties, Liberals are stronger than ever. Thanks to Harper!

you mean John Tory

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree you mean John Tory

Harper's idiocy and way of things, so to say, has disillusioned Ontario in general. It seems many people didnt want to vote Conservative - if Tory was on a different political platform, I'm sure he would have won more ridings, his well-made commercials deserve some credit.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Harper's idiocy and way of things, so to say, has disillusioned Ontario in general. It seems many people didnt want to vote Conservative - if Tory was on a different political platform, I'm sure he would have won more ridings, his well-made commercials deserve some credit.

huh?
last I checked, Harper made gains over Dion in the national poll.

Well made commercials? I've only seen the ones that attack McGuinty, but failed to show exactly what will the Tories do if they get elected.
Combine with the religious school boondoogle which for some reason ticked off a lot of Ontarians.

Harper had nothing to do with this election. So far, I think you're the only one trying to link Harper with this election.

I voted in Vaughan at 3 pm and it was totaly dead. Maybe one other person in the place.

quote:

Originally posted by _EuG_ I voted in Vaughan at 3 pm and it was totaly dead. Maybe one other person in the place.

people do work, you know

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree huh? last I checked, Harper made gains over Dion in the national poll. Well made commercials? I've only seen the ones that attack McGuinty, but failed to show exactly what will the Tories do if they get elected. Combine with the religious school boondoogle which for some reason ticked off a lot of Ontarians. Harper had nothing to do with this election. So far, I think you're the only one trying to link Harper with this election.

You didnt see the commercials that I saw (I dont think I saw the ones you're talking about). For example, one of the Tory commercials talked about giving lots more money to autistic children - and my parents voted for PC because my youngest brother is autistic. You missed that one, among their many other pledges (that you missed).


Harper = Tories = Conservatives. Same political spectrum. Many people are weary of conservatives as a party, despite the distrust of lying McGuinties. Out of my friends, I am the only one who knew about that religious school funding "incident" (how odd).

Despite that setback for PC, they were not going to win anyway, and you're gonna have to come up with a better excuse for why (hint: not because of faith-based schools).

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Wow, what a worthless article. Was he even following the Tory campaign? Tory lost the support precisely because he didn't back away from the issue. And yes, pretty much every politician breaks some promises, because they promise too much and have to make compromises, but can anyone here name even one single promise that McGuinty kept? Where was the compromise?

Wrong. The article was correct - Tory DID flip-flop. Another source:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...tional/National

quote:

However, there is some potential for the Conservatives to do better than the numbers suggest on election day, the poll says, because Conservative supporters are disproportionately older and therefore more likely to vote. Nevertheless, the survey done over the Thanksgiving weekend marks a stunning reversal of fortune for Mr. Tory, who has personally paid a political price for initially promoting the funding of all religious schools and then backing off last Monday by saying he would put the matter to a free vote in the legislature should he become premier. His popularity now trails that of Liberal Leader Dalton McGuinty, with only 30 per cent of voters saying he would be the best premier, compared with 36 per cent for his rival. This is a reversal from a poll done by Strategic Counsel three weeks ago, when Mr. Tory was the No. 1 choice.

the reason is the same that Harper didn't win a majority in the federal election...shitty leadership and focusing too much on attacking the sitting gov't and not enough on how they will be different.

Tory was a lame duck leader. He couldn't prevent a majority when even Liberal supporters (like myself) were fed up with McGuinty (I still voted Liberal, because of my MPP).

Harper should have obliterated the Liberals after the scandals, but did not and has no chance in hell of winning a majority in the next election (if the CPC wins again, that is).

Instead of crying about how awful McGuinty has been, how awful the next four years will be...ask your party why they choose such incompetent, unappealing leaders.

Tory allowed what SHOULD have been a relatively minor issue turn into a resounding Liberal majority. Harper has failed to sway Canadians, despite the Liberal scandals and despite ongoing infighting.

maybe before throwing stones at their opposition, the federal and provincial conservatives need to get their own respective acts together and learn how to APPEAL to voters.

unless we get to listen to 4 more years of how the liberal media ruins everything

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium You didnt see the commercials that I saw (I dont think I saw the ones you're talking about). For example, one of the Tory commercials talked about giving lots more money to autistic children - and my parents voted for PC because my youngest brother is autistic. You missed that one, among their many other pledges (that you missed).

Possibly. I've been watching about 3 hours of idiot box per night and for some reason I didn't catch the ads you're talking about. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

quote:

Harper = Tories = Conservatives. Same political spectrum. Many people are weary of conservatives as a party, despite the distrust of lying McGuinties. Out of my friends, I am the only one who knew about that religious school funding "incident" (how odd).

So this is why the Conservatives are still leading against the Liberals federally? (according to latest poll)

By your corelation, if Harper is causing the downfall of provincial tories, federally, the Liberals should be leading the poll.

quote:

Despite that setback for PC, they were not going to win anyway, and you're gonna have to come up with a better excuse for why (hint: not because of faith-based schools).

lol. seems you're the one going against the leading political analysts who all seems to say that the religious school issue is the leading downfall of John Tory's campaign.

So what wisdom do you have to share?

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree people do work, you know

There were many parents picking up thier children from school (where poll was), but few of them were at the poll it self.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT the reason is the same that Harper didn't win a majority in the federal election...shitty leadership and focusing too much on attacking the sitting gov't and not enough on how they will be different. Harper should have obliterated the Liberals after the scandals, but did not and has no chance in hell of winning a majority in the next election (if the CPC wins again, that is). maybe before throwing stones at their opposition, the federal and provincial conservatives need to get their own respective acts together and learn how to APPEAL to voters.

I agree... Somewhat.

You gotta realize that for some reason, Canadians don't like anything that reeks of 'right wing' and seemingly 'American'.

Anything that Harper does, IMO, goes under even more scrunity than Cretin or Martin, simply becaause Harper is a Conservative.

So, he treads very carefully now what he says or do.

I'm not too happy about the way Harper does some things, such as failing to sell the Afghanistan mission to the Canadian public, but I don't blame him. One mistake for Harper may mean that his minority govt goes down under a vote of no confidence.

quote:

unless we get to listen to 4 more years of how the liberal media ruins everything

I dunno if the media is all pro liberal, but they are after money and if the Canadian public likes reading about how the Conservatives are fucking up, then the media will keep printing those stories

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree Possibly. I've been watching about 3 hours of idiot box per night and for some reason I didn't catch the ads you're talking about. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

I saw this commercial like 5times, and I RARELY even watch TV, but was lucky to get annoyed by that commercial on two different channels over the Thanksgiving weekend:

Tory pledges $75M for autistic children

http://www.thestar.com/OntarioElection/article/260288

A Progressive Conservative government would aim to eliminate waiting lists for autistic children needing treatment as soon as possible, party leader John Tory said today.
Experts have suggested it would take a minimum of two years. Tory did not set an exact deadline, although he called a time limit the only way to make progress.

�It won�t be easy but it must be done,� Tory said after a round-table discussion with parents of autistic children at a fitness club, promising an extra $75 million a year in funding to help tackle the issue.

There are now 1,000 children on the waiting list for treatment that can cost $50,000 a year per child, up from 89 when Premier Dalton McGuinty was elected in 2003, because the number of children diagnosed with the disorder has climbed exponentially.

�Mr. McGuinty has not delivered and those families are still waiting,� Tory said.

etc.etc.etc.

-------
Need I say more?

quote:

So this is why the Conservatives are still leading against the Liberals federally? (according to latest poll) By your corelation, if Harper is causing the downfall of provincial tories, federally, the Liberals should be leading the poll.

Polls mean little if anything, and they will change with the next speech by the party leader. Greens were favourite to win Owen Sound, they didnt get it. NDP were poll-favourite to repeat as Hamilton Mountain riding winners according to polls, and they faltered. According to http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...tional/National polls taken yesterday of elections outlook, "The New Democrats' support climbed three points to 19 per cent, an improvement from the 14.7 per cent of the vote the party received in the 2003" - yet NDP only snagged over 9% of the vote. Election time, we'll see. Until then, its speculations. One thing for sure, PC and Conservatives lost big time, and not just because of religious schools. They didnt have huge support before the issue, and certainly not after.

quote:

lol. seems you're the one going against the leading political analysts who all seems to say that the religious school issue is the leading downfall of John Tory's campaign. So what wisdom do you have to share?

Are you suggesting that Tories were going to win if this controversy was avoided? Not a chance! Therefore, the main reasons for their defeat are to be found elsewhere ...

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Are you suggesting that Tories were going to win if this controversy was avoided? Not a chance! Therefore, the main reasons for their defeat are to be found elsewhere ...

how do you figure?

so far, you've failed to give conclusive evidence, other than that Conservatives are bad

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT the reason is the same that Harper didn't win a majority in the federal election...shitty leadership and focusing too much on attacking the sitting gov't and not enough on how they will be different. Tory was a lame duck leader. He couldn't prevent a majority when even Liberal supporters (like myself) were fed up with McGuinty (I still voted Liberal, because of my MPP). Harper should have obliterated the Liberals after the scandals, but did not and has no chance in hell of winning a majority in the next election (if the CPC wins again, that is). Instead of crying about how awful McGuinty has been, how awful the next four years will be...ask your party why they choose such incompetent, unappealing leaders. Tory allowed what SHOULD have been a relatively minor issue turn into a resounding Liberal majority. Harper has failed to sway Canadians, despite the Liberal scandals and despite ongoing infighting. maybe before throwing stones at their opposition, the federal and provincial conservatives need to get their own respective acts together and learn how to APPEAL to voters. unless we get to listen to 4 more years of how the liberal media ruins everything

Well said. I don't think the Conservaties know how to run a campaign unless it focuses on attacking other parties.

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree how do you figure? so far, you've failed to give conclusive evidence, other than that Conservatives are bad

Just do yourself a favour and look up some election outlooks and polls, and you'd see at the closest a Liberal minority at best for PC.

There's no conclusive evidence even for you to back your point other than speculations. Your reasoning suggests that bitter McGuinty lies (for example, as Globe & Mail put it, "Mr. McGuinty was viewed as vulnerable for breaking a number of pledges he had made during the 2003 campaign, including the $2.6-billion annual health premium he introduced in 2004 after promising not to raise taxes." = among other lies) are far sweeter than giving a smaller funding package for religious schools. Doesnt even make sense, does it?

MarkT gave some good reasons for why PC Party was very fishy, I have to say.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Just do yourself a favour and look up some election outlooks and polls, and you'd see at the closest a Liberal minority at best for PC. There's no conclusive evidence even for you to back your point other than speculations. Your reasoning suggests that bitter McGuinty lies (for example, as Globe & Mail put it, "Mr. McGuinty was viewed as vulnerable for breaking a number of pledges he had made during the 2003 campaign, including the $2.6-billion annual health premium he introduced in 2004 after promising not to raise taxes." = among other lies) are far sweeter than giving a smaller funding package for religious schools. Doesnt even make sense, does it?

You've failed to provide reasoning for your argument other than speculations either.

Kinda convenient for you to use polls as evidence and dismiss it when it doesn't suit you.

I dunno, but so far, all the political analysts have said that religious school issue was the key reason why John Tory campaign failed, and that's been the story pretty much the entire election campaign. Are you claming to be smarter than all these political analysts?

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree You've failed to provide reasoning for your argument other than speculations either. Kinda convenient for you to use polls as evidence and dismiss it when it doesn't suit you. I dunno, but so far, all the political analysts have said that religious school issue was the key reason why John Tory campaign failed, and that's been the story pretty much the entire election campaign. Are you claming to be smarter than all these political analysts?

Seriously, how come John Tory wasnt in the lead before that controversy? Care to elaborate?

Its a pretty easy reasoning for me: McGuinty alone rips us off by 2.6 billion dollars in new taxes EVERY YEAR since he came around just on the health care premium alone, and he didnt get burned for it (look at elections results), while Tory's plan for one-time 400 million dollars in funding for faith-based schools (that he then changed his mind to put it to public vote) gets him burned? Where's the logic? I find it hard to believe that Ontario is that paranoid on religion, considering the many people still associate themselves with religious organizations and even attend sunday masses.

There was a complete disregard of Tory for his funding election campaign of using the budget surplus money also for critical areas that are starving for support like more funds for children with autism, that Liberals disregard. While Liberals are sitting pretty with huge budget surplus, they're still not cutting taxes down, nor helping Ontarians in need. Stupid, very stupid. The next stupidest thing to Canadian electing Harper - the man who opposes many of our Canadian values (like stand on same-sex issues).

Though I still dont support either Tories nor McGuinties. Nor NDP (bandwagon jumpers, who also claim to support things other parties do - as they also bragged about supporting autistic children).

The faith-based school funding issue only dropped Tories by 6 points to 28 percent, in a province where they havent had a lead in a long long time, according to An Ipsos-Reid survey - so the faith-based school issue, it appears, is not the reason for that:

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/national/story.html?id=1be18b10-bd5b-42cb-a33e-17275bd796a2

Anne Dawson, Chief Political Correspondent, CanWest News Service
OTTAWA - A new poll suggests support for the Conservatives has plunged in Ontario - the key battleground in this federal election and the province where Conservatives most need to make gains. The Tories are now 19 percentage points behind the Liberals.


"An Ipsos-Reid survey conducted for CanWest News Service over the weekend suggests the Liberals are at 47 per cent support in Ontario- up six points from a week ago - and the Conservatives are down six points from the same period, at 28 per cent. "

quote:

Ontario voter turnout a record low Last Updated: Thursday, October 11, 2007 | 6:55 AM ET CBC News The percentage of eligible voters casting ballots in Wednesday's Ontario election hit an all-time low despite changes introduced in an effort to boost turnout. Only 52.6 per cent of eligible voters cast a ballot, or 4.4 million of 8.4 million possible voters, according to numbers released by Elections Ontario at 6:30 a.m. ET Thursday, when 99.8 per cent of polls had been counted. The turnout was worse than a previous record low of 54.7 per cent set in 1923. It also fell below the 2003 voter turnout of 56.9 per cent. Legislation introduced by the previous Liberal government since the 2003 election to boost declining turnout in recent elections did not seem to have the desired effect. Those changes included: Setting a fixed election date. Extending the hours and number of days of advanced voting. Boosting the number of polling stations. Extending polling by one hour on election day. However, there was a significant gain in voting at advance polls. Elections Ontario reported that 451,949 electors voted at the advance polls this year, up from 356,396 in 2003.

Looks like the people just don't care. Don't understand how, but whatever. I hate this country sometimes haha.


What the Consevatives need is true right wing leader. Not some wishy washy leader who can't stick to the party's values!

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