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-- Can soft synths ever sound as good as hardware? Post your opinion.
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Well , first of all of course Native Instruments makes alot more profit then Clavia , so is behringer over SSL i assure you that! you gotta understand most of the people can't afford those kind of stuff.
its like comparing Ferrari cars to Fiat. i bet fiat makes alot more money as most of the people can afford their cars , ferrari is alot more limited.

2nd thing the powercore itself is alot weaker then a good computer now days but it meant to handle only limited stuff like his own plugins or virus for example. if you ran those on your cpu which already need to handle your Windows / mac + your sequencer and other plugins you'll kill it in NO TIME!

as for the osc and filters of the virus or nord (or any quality Hardware synth actually) take a saw osc of the nord lead and zeta or whatever (without any distortion or saturation) , and see which one is better.

the nord filters sounds 10000000 times better then all the vsti's i'v checked.....by FAR!
i'v tried all those soft synths you guys are talking about...predator and massive does'nt even come close to a virus TI or any nord lead i'v heard. yeah it has a lot of cool features but sound wise?? NO FUKING WAY! its rubbish i'v checked it more then once!

btw , non taken personally of course! its a discussion and i'm glad to hear other people thoughts

quote:

Originally posted by Hydroid Well , first of all of course Native Instruments makes alot more profit then Clavia , so is behringer over SSL i assure you that! you gotta understand most of the people can't afford those kind of stuff. its like comparing Ferrari cars to Fiat. i bet fiat makes alot more money as most of the people can afford their cars , ferrari is alot more limited. 2nd thing the powercore itself is alot weaker then a good computer now days but it meant to handle only limited stuff like his own plugins or virus for example. if you ran those on your cpu which already need to handle your Windows / mac + your sequencer and other plugins you'll kill it in NO TIME! as for the osc and filters of the virus or nord (or any quality Hardware synth actually) take a saw osc of the nord lead and zeta or whatever (without any distortion or saturation) , and see which one is better. the nord filters sounds 10000000 times better then all the vsti's i'v checked.....by FAR! i'v tried all those soft synths you guys are talking about...predator and massive does'nt even come close to a virus TI or any nord lead i'v heard. yeah it has a lot of cool features but sound wise?? NO FUKING WAY! its rubbish i'v checked it more then once! btw , non taken personally of course! its a discussion and i'm glad to hear other people thoughts

The problem I'm having understanding is people keep coming in and saying "THE CODE IS THE SAME THE CODE IS THE SAME!!!"

*****SO WHAT*******

They DO NOT sound the same.
The difference between a moog emulation and a moog
is the SAME difference between imatation cheese and real cheese.

Trust and believe imitation can taste good but NEVER as good as the REAL cheese. Thats WHY they are called "imitations" or "emulations".
They are aspiring to be something but always falling short.

Once they ARE that something, they are no longer an emulation.


If we turned THAT into a debate, the software deluded people would come in here saying BUT THEY HAVE THE SAME INGREDIENTS!!, milk, dairy, blah blah.
Great, that doesn't mean I'm gonna live on imitation cheese, or ever buy it in the supermarket, or ever even attempt to believe software sounds better. Its CHEAP, and it sounds cheap.
Same as the cheap cheese you put on your burgers when you cook.

And the reason NI makes more money (if they do, noones even validated this fact) is because people are CHEAP.
Not because NI is better than Clavia. Thats a joke.

Your PC has the capability to do the same thing as a DSP, it just does it differently but the output is the same (except maybe roundoff error but that's NOT the source of difference, I promise)


So hardware compared to software is not:
a) The difference between a moog emulation and a moog
b) the SAME difference between imatation cheese and real cheese.

Neither of these are good analogies for software running on DSP and software running on an x86 system.

The difference lies in the recipe behind the synth.

Think about it, the first VA synths were coming as early as '94! The first VST softsynth were starting to show around 2002 (those that are stil considered any good, that is). The VA makers, like Access, Clavia, Waldorf etc. have an EIGHT YEAR head-start on the software developers! eight more years to fine-tune THEIR recipe for synth-goodness.

I truly do think that some of the higher end virtual-analogs out there sound better than most of the software products, but that's because they've spent 3-4 times more man-hours developing their product! That's why hardware often sounds better!

... oh, and that is the ONLY logical explanation I will accept. If you try to give reasons for "the DACs being more quality" or "the code runs faster" or any other bullshit technical reason like that I will bury you in a wave of counter-evidence :P Softsynths have the potential, they just need someone to spend 14 years working it to perfection

PS: analog vs. digital is not comparable, they're apples and oranges, while DSP vs. PC is apples to apples...

quote:

Originally posted by Low Profile Your PC has the capability to do the same thing as a DSP, it just does it differently but the output is the same (except maybe roundoff error but that's NOT the source of difference, I promise) So hardware compared to software is not: a) The difference between a moog emulation and a moog b) the SAME difference between imatation cheese and real cheese. Neither of these are good analogies for software running on DSP and software running on an x86 system. The difference lies in the recipe behind the synth. Think about it, the first VA synths were coming as early as '94! The first VST softsynth were starting to show around 2002 (those that are stil considered any good, that is). The VA makers, like Access, Clavia, Waldorf etc. have an EIGHT YEAR head-start on the software developers! eight more years to fine-tune THEIR recipe for synth-goodness. I truly do think that some of the higher end virtual-analogs out there sound better than most of the software products, but that's because they've spent 3-4 times more man-hours developing their product! That's why hardware often sounds better! ... oh, and that is the ONLY logical explanation I will accept. If you try to give reasons for "the DACs being more quality" or "the code runs faster" or any other bullshit technical reason like that I will bury you in a wave of counter-evidence :P Softsynths have the potential, they just need someone to spend 14 years working it to perfection PS: analog vs. digital is not comparable, they're apples and oranges, while DSP vs. PC is apples to apples...

I agree with a lot of this. Personally I don't use softs to emulate anything but rather it's own color of the rainbow. I own both softs and hards, for me and what I do they both have a use or "color".

Sorry for not staying strictly on topic.

quote:

Originally posted by Hydroid as for the osc and filters of the virus or nord (or any quality Hardware synth actually) take a saw osc of the nord lead and zeta or whatever (without any distortion or saturation) , and see which one is better.

Z3ta Naked saw > Virus naked saw

I prefer the sound of the Z3ta, I am not unqiue.

This guy is one of those people who thinks hardware sounds better because it cannot be pirated and thus technicians are willing to put more work to make it sound better.

As a note, many, if not most programmers are paid initally for their work, once the product is released, the guy that made it [if you work for a huge company] has likely already been paid everything, and wether it sells or not is not of his concern.

"Hardware sounds better because of VSTi piracy" *Chuckle*

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox is the SAME difference between imatation cheese and real cheese... Trust and believe imitation can taste good but NEVER as good as the REAL cheese... If we turned THAT into a debate, the software deluded people would come in here saying BUT THEY HAVE THE SAME INGREDIENTS!!, milk, dairy, blah blah... Great, that doesn't mean I'm gonna live on imitation cheese, or ever buy it in the supermarket, or ever even attempt to believe software sounds better... Same as the cheap cheese you put on your burgers when you cook.

you come up with the most retarded analogies lol

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir This guy is one of those people who thinks hardware sounds better because it cannot be pirated and thus technicians are willing to put more work to make it sound better.

When you are going to sell something that costs over 5 times as much, in a hardware box it better be quality.

Harware has resale value which makes it a far better investment. Software doesn't.

You might be surprised that with software it just as much depends on the product as with hardware. A bigger factor would be if the software manufacturer actually supports license transfers. Of course the investment is smaller and so is the return for software.

quote:

Originally posted by Storyteller A bigger factor would be if the software manufacturer actually supports license transfers.

No software I have bought allows for transfers, except Voxengo. FXpansion, Native Instruments, Steinberg and Korg won't let you

Yea unfortunately that's the way it works. Honestly I couldn't think of a reason why I would be selling my software anyway but that's a while different story .

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm No software I have bought allows for transfers, except Voxengo. FXpansion, Native Instruments, Steinberg and Korg won't let you

?? http://www.native-instruments.com/f...ead.php?t=68020

Don't know about the others but it seem NI let you transfer... Not saying its easy, but certainly possible...

What DAW comes in a hardware Box?

Reason licence can be transfered.

True but for every software sold there is 10 downloaded for free

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