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-- Gay people are a threat to my life and to the american way!
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Originally posted by idoru Oh, I will. Here's to you leading an enlightened life when thirty and forty years down the road you look at all of the married gay couples and their adopted children and go, "Huh, this really isn't bad at all."

I have no prejudice here. Anything that happens is what was meant to happen, at the end of the day. Thank you

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Originally posted by boris_the_bear I have no prejudice here.

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Originally posted by weymouth Here's a question for you all and I'm wondering what you think. Can you make the argument that the evidence supporting negative effects on children that are raised in a fatherless or motherless home can be applied to a child with two fathers or two mothers? Here are some examples: There are a ton of studies like this. The real question though is "Are these negative effects because of a certain missing sex in the family unit, which would cause some concern for homosexual families, or is it because of the absence of second loving parent?" Does studies showing the absence of a fatherly figure in a child's life and the negative effects on that child have any bearing for the argument to keep the conventional family structure?

so based on that we should make single fathers and single mothers illegal too?

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Originally posted by colonelcrisp so based on that we should make single fathers and single mothers illegal too?

Of course not, it's not illegal for gay couples to marry in the states that allow it either. The question is if the eroding away of the typical family structure a problem to the well-being of a society.

If some of you are capable of making it through your adult lives thusfar while being utterly fucking stupid, I fail to see how having gay parents could essentially hinder a child.

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Originally posted by weymouth Of course not, it's not illegal for gay couples to marry in the states that allow it either. The question is if the eroding away of the typical family structure a problem to the well-being of a society.

Personally i view promoting the total acceptance of everyones lifestyle choice as being normal is not eroding the family structure nor is it ill affecting the well-being of society. If anything it will strengthen the well being.

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Originally posted by weymouth The question is if the eroding away of the typical family structure a problem to the well-being of a society.

There is nothing innately 'typical' about the family structure. There never has been.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On If some of you are capable of making it through your adult lives thusfar while being utterly fucking stupid, I fail to see how having gay parents could essentially hinder a child.

Depends on if you believe that missing a certain adult sex in a child's life would in some ways hinder that child socially or mentally. I know in my life there are some things that I can talk to my father about that I couldn't talk to my mother about and vice versa. Does missing that interaction detract from the development of a child? According to studies where a child only had one sex in their family unit(single parents) it does.

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Originally posted by weymouth Depends on if you believe that missing a certain adult sex in a child's life would in some ways hinder that child socially or mentally. I know in my life there are some things that I can talk to my father about that I couldn't talk to my mother about and vice versa. Does missing that interaction detract from the development of a child? According to studies where a child only had one sex in their family unit(single parents) it does.

I'm the same way with my parents (I talk to them each about different issues). However, who's to say that each homosexual parent won't differ in things that child is able to discuss with? Just because they're the same sex doesn't mean that they're each only approachable about the exact same things. You're also citing studies of single families and trying to relate it to a discussion of a couple.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On There is nothing innately 'typical' about the family structure. There never has been.

Explain. A family structure of a mother and father is the definition of typical. Exhibiting the essential characteristics of a group or conforming to a type. A homosexual couple would be atypical.

As long as there is one butch to play sports with and 1 lipstick to go shopping with.

say no to butch on butch crimes.

i mean marriages!

edit - children.. whatever.

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Originally posted by idoru I'm the same way with my parents (I talk to them each about different issues). However, who's to say that each homosexual parent won't differ in things that child is able to discuss with? Just because they're the same sex doesn't mean that they're each only approachable about the exact same things. You're also citing studies of single families and trying to relate it to a discussion of a couple.

I agree, a child could definitely go to the different parent for different needs. However, who's to say that each different sex parent wouldn't allow the child with more opportunities of mental growth due to gender specific issues. For example, two fathers telling their daughter about menstruation. The daughter would inherently be more comfortable talking about that subject with a female that emphasizes with her needs.

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Originally posted by weymouth Explain. A family structure of a mother and father is the definition of typical. Exhibiting the essential characteristics of a group or conforming to a type. A homosexual couple would be atypical.

The only structure that necessitates the contribution of a 'mother' and a 'father' is that of our genetic makeup.

When you speak of 'family', however - just what do you mean? Who a child is brought up with? Well there's are innumerable different structures to that device that have determined an equally innumerable amount of different people. 'Typical' means absolutely nothing whatsoever.

If your point is that the atomic family is necessary to facilitate the means for perpetuating nothing more than the atomic family structure... then I suppose you're right in that regard. But not only are you right; you're 87 years old and nobody really cares what you think.

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Originally posted by weymouth I agree, a child could definitely go to the different parent for different needs. However, who's to say that each different sex parent wouldn't allow the child with more opportunities of mental growth due to gender specific issues. For example, two fathers telling their daughter about menstruation. The daughter would inherently be more comfortable talking about that subject with a female that emphasizes with her needs.

This is a good point! See, it's clear that your parents are heterosexuals through and through, because they obviously did an awfful job at explaining homosexuality to you, explaining both your relative ignorance and fear regarding it... right?

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Originally posted by weymouth I agree, a child could definitely go to the different parent for different needs. However, who's to say that each different sex parent wouldn't allow the child with more opportunities of mental growth due to gender specific issues. For example, two fathers telling their daughter about menstruation. The daughter would inherently be more comfortable talking about that subject with a female that emphasizes with her needs.

Because prior to hitting puberty, they wouldn't have brought the child up to be completely comfortable talking to either of them about it, nor would they educate themselves on the matter. Yes, homosexual couples will be ill-prepared for these kinds of things.

You don't need to have a vagina to explain the menstrual cycle and you certainly don't need one in order to be able to communicate properly with a female. Hell, by the ignorance you seem to be exhibiting here in regards to the topic, wouldn't most people consider homosexual males to be far more "feminine" in the first place, thus allowing them to identify easier with their potential "daughter(s)"?

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Originally posted by boris_the_bear There you go. Another valid argument from a representative and a point for the gay community. You're doing them a bad favor though..

I think a gay guy beating the shit out of you would be a valid point for the gay community.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On This is a good point! See, it's clear that your parents are heterosexuals through and through, because they obviously did an awfful job at explaining homosexuality to you, explaining both your relative ignorance and fear regarding it... right?

What are you talking about? Please explain my relative ignorance and fear regarding homosexuality based on what I've said. When have I once attacked you based on what you have written? So far you have said:

utterly fucking stupid
you're 87 years old and nobody really cares what you think
ignorance and fear regarding homosexuality

I don't understand how someone can get so defensive over a discussion.

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Originally posted by weymouth Does missing that interaction detract from the development of a child? According to studies where a child only had one sex in their family unit(single parents) it does.

It's not illegal for a single parent to raise a child.

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Originally posted by Jake Benson I think a gay guy beating the shit out of you would be a valid point for the gay community.

you're gay

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Originally posted by idoru Because prior to hitting puberty, they wouldn't have brought the child up to be completely comfortable talking to either of them about it, nor would they educate themselves on the matter. Yes, homosexual couples will be ill-prepared for these kinds of things. You don't need to have a vagina to explain the menstrual cycle and you certainly don't need one in order to be able to communicate properly with a female. Hell, by the ignorance you seem to be exhibiting here in regards to the topic, wouldn't most people consider homosexual males to be far more "feminine" in the first place, thus allowing them to identify easier with their potential "daughter(s)"?

There's a big difference between educating ones self on an experience and having the experience of going through it. It is not ignorant to believe that the person that went through it wouldn't have the best understanding and insight to explain it to another person that has also went through it.

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Originally posted by Jake Benson It's not illegal for a single parent to raise a child.

I'm not talking about the legality of the issue. I'm talking about the cultural and societal effects of the issue.

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Originally posted by weymouth There's a big difference between educating ones self on an experience and having the experience of going through it. It is not ignorant to believe that the person that went through it wouldn't have the best understanding and insight to explain it to another person that has also went through it.

Do homosexual men not have close, personal female friends who are either possibly A.) Best friends, B.) Godparents, or C.) Still close enough to the family to properly educate the child with a relative feeling of closeness?

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Originally posted by idoru Do homosexual men not have close, personal female friends who are either possibly A.) Best friends, B.) Godparents, or C.) Still close enough to the family to properly educate the child with a relative feeling of closeness?

I agree with you on this one. I feel that children of homosexual parents will find a close family member or friend that will become almost their surrogate heterosexual dad or mom. That type of bound might be instinctual for humans.

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Originally posted by weymouth What are you talking about? Please explain my relative ignorance and fear regarding homosexuality based on what I've said.

I'm sorry you cannot tell the difference. Let me explain your own logic to you:

If homosexual parents are ill-equipped to prepare their children for dealing with heterosexual issues, then clearly, your parents' heterosexuality has impeded upon your ability to fully understand homosexuality, therby making your participation in this very discussion utterly worthless because - you know - a person only knows and is prepared to deal with the things that his or her parents explain to them in life!

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Originally posted by ownymcown as far as homos adopting kids, i think one would have to think in the best interests of the children. not all kids would benefit from having gay parents, so sexuality should be one of the factors they consider (like stability, income, criminal record, etc).

Agreed. Here are more factors to consider.

Not all kids would benefit from having Muslim parents, because some of them are terrorists.

Not all kids would benefit from having black parents, because some of them are poor, speak Ebonics, listen to rap, and steal.

Not all kids would benefit from having Mormon parents, because some male Mormon's have too many wives and the kids won't know which mommy to look up to.

Not all kids would benefit from having people who used to go to raves as parents, because some of them did drugs and have warped brains.

Not all kids would benefit from having Jews as parents, because many of them are hypochondriacs and worry more about money than their own kids.

Not all kids would benefit from having Latinos as parents, because some of them are wetbacks and can barely support themselves let alone sit up-right because they drink too much.

Not all kids would benefit from having Native Americans as parents, because some own casinos and gambling is wrong.

Not all kids would benefit from having dancers as parents, because most of them stop dancing at 40 and then some can't find a stable income thereafter.

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