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-- what it takes to produce... do i have the hard part down already?
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Originally posted by cronodevir There was a flame war? /me looks around...

Certainly not. The last 13 pages were just friendly chatting. Highly entertaining friendly chatting that I thoroughly enjoyed reading.

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Originally posted by mfitterer1 You're right, confidence and ego are separate, to someone who has proven themselves. To someone who has not (no offense meant by this), like the dude that started this flame war, it keeps them going. I highly doubt he means to come off as pompous as it sounds. To me he knows a lot about music but doesn't know how to use it yet. Seems he is past the discovery stage but not yet into the action phase, so his posts seem to be a validation of the journey he is on, but not yet completed. That's my take, and there's nothing wrong with that. Different strokes for different folks.

Interesting take.

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Originally posted by xenos_declan Certainly not. The last 13 pages were just friendly chatting. Highly entertaining friendly chatting that I thoroughly enjoyed reading.

Lol, Nice. Though that is what it usually is, we just happen to have drama-queens who like to blow things all out of proportion and make things seem more disturbed or chaotic than they really are.

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Originally posted by cronodevir Lol, Nice. Though that is what it usually is, we just happen to have drama-queens who like to blow things all out of proportion and make things seem more disturbed or chaotic than they really are.

Well it was very entertaining and informative. I haven't been on these boards in years. It's good to be back.

A recent study which took in many other studies, has shown there is one key fundamental reaon why certain people excel in any given area, from golf, to music, cooking to car racing.

It is not latent talent. The study looked at high end classical music colleges and found there were often many naturaly talented students.

No, what separates the top tier is one thing; 10,000 hours training.

Thats a lot of training.

Everyone from Mozart to the Beatles, the bloke who was the worlds most sucessfuul computer programmer (from the 1970s - he wrote most of the fundamental code that underpins most applications today), top tier racing drivers, top classical soloists, top sportsmen - golf, olyimpics, all of them had in thier time spent rutheless hours training to reach that magic 10,000 hours.

The female UK cycling champion trainied 6 hours per day 360 days per year for years to get the gold at Bejing.

Now thats not to say we dont get the oddd lucky person that gets a one hit wonder, but they tend not to last.

I would say this most definitely applies to trance and there are millions of adjustments one can make, and it takes a lot of hours to learn which adjuestments give the right end result.

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Originally posted by Richard Butler No, what separates the top tier is one thing; 10,000 hours training.

Spot on. I've heard of this phenomenon alright. I'm pretty sure "the bloke who was the worlds most sucessfuul computer programmer" is Bill Gates. From what I remember he finagled some sort of deal when he was in school so that he had access to potent computers pretty much whenever he wanted. He used to go in, in the middle of the night to get the most out of it. Wish I could spend 10,000 hours learning music!

this thread has draggoed on way too long.

It's pretty stupid. Just work your ass off. Period.

the author of the magic 10 000 makes it clear that it has to be careful planned training. Sitting at your computer making tracks would not be considered the latter. Most musicians have about 30 000 hours of time spent doing music by the time they are 25 but probably only 10 000 hours of careful "training"

Hrm, So according to my calculations, I have been producing for 70,000 hours.

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Originally posted by cronodevir Hrm, So according to my calculations, I have been producing for 70,000 hours.

how much of that was what most would consider conscious careful training? Hours mean nothing if you are learning bad habits. You could be producing 100 000 hours and still suck if you are learning bad habits or just dicking around.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler A recent study which took in many other studies, has shown there is one key fundamental reaon why certain people excel in any given area, from golf, to music, cooking to car racing. It is not latent talent. The study looked at high end classical music colleges and found there were often many naturaly talented students. No, what separates the top tier is one thing; 10,000 hours training. Thats a lot of training. Everyone from Mozart to the Beatles, the bloke who was the worlds most sucessfuul computer programmer (from the 1970s - he wrote most of the fundamental code that underpins most applications today), top tier racing drivers, top classical soloists, top sportsmen - golf, olyimpics, all of them had in thier time spent rutheless hours training to reach that magic 10,000 hours. The female UK cycling champion trainied 6 hours per day 360 days per year for years to get the gold at Bejing. Now thats not to say we dont get the oddd lucky person that gets a one hit wonder, but they tend not to last. I would say this most definitely applies to trance and there are millions of adjustments one can make, and it takes a lot of hours to learn which adjuestments give the right end result.

This hits the nail on the head. And of course we cannot forget that a tremendous passion for the task is also needed to get through those 10k hours without wanting to slit your throat

when i was at school, i remember all the asian pianists would practice 8 hours a day every day. I remember getting yelled at for only putting in 4. Of course they had no souls as is the fate of being asian so I suppose they had to make it up with technique.





kidding about the asian bit. I love them to death.

In regards to music I'd say that the alotted 10k hours would need to be making mistakes AND learning why they are mistakes and why not do to them. Not just jamming out on the midi keyboard or trying to find the right samples. So I'd say out of a musicians time, it would probably take about 30-40k hours of generalized producing to get the 10k hours aforementioned.

theories theories

what's the big deal just go out and do it already

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV when i was at school, i remember all the asian pianists would practice 8 hours a day every day. I remember getting yelled at for only putting in 4. Of course they had no souls as is the fate of being asian so I suppose they had to make it up with technique. kidding about the asian bit. I love them to death.

What did you study?

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Originally posted by RichieV how much of that was what most would consider conscious careful training? Hours mean nothing if you are learning bad habits. You could be producing 100 000 hours and still suck if you are learning bad habits or just dicking around.

I never went to any classes for music, all it is, is study of romanticism.

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Originally posted by Beatflux What did you study?

at school i did an undergrade in piano performance and composition and then a masters in composition.

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Originally posted by cronodevir I never went to any classes for music, all it is, is study of romanticism.

I don't understand what you mean by that.

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Originally posted by RichieV I don't understand what you mean by that.

All they did was talk about how great classic composers were, and how great that era of history was. The actual music stuff was home work. It was so proliferated that I got pretty much sick of classical. I can't really stand the composers or that era of history.

Actually, this was a bit before the romanticism era.

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir All they did was talk about how great classic composers were, and how great that era of history was. The actual music stuff was home work. It was so proliferated that I got pretty much sick of classical. I can't really stand the composers or that era of history. Actually, this was a bit before the romanticism era.

Did you actually go to school for music ? Maybe you just went to a bad school. And yes, the basics usually are "homework". Even beethoven did countless exercises given by his teachers.

I"m not sure why you mentioned this tho. You don't have to go to school to be trained in classical music. There are many ways which are probably more effective but unfortunately money is sometimes an issue and it is hard to get funding when you aren't at a real institution.

I'm talking about the musical courses at the high school I want to.

Other than that my theory training has been the internet and books. A lot of it though is simply "vocabulary". For instance I noticed the pattern when using certain sets of 3 keys on the piano, later I learned those were called chords. I noticed the pattern that some groups of keys work well and some don't, later I learned those were called scales. Its not hard when you play piano every day, even if you don't know how, to spot the patterns in music. I have 3 pianos so Id say I have spent a lot of time on them. First time I used one of them was in like..1998. Didn't start making songs until like 2002. I used FLStudio 2 I believe. And have used it ever sense, I of course tried albeton, reason, a few trackers..but eventually came to to FL. Tried Cubase recently and want back also.

well there is your problem. You should of been out smoking with the cool kids.

It takes massive balls and perspiration on those balls.

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