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-- The Belief Spectrum
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quote:

Originally posted by DJ Damerchi aren't we all making things up as we go along, regardless of faith?

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I'm just puzzled by the idea that any significant number of people have a "faith" or "spirituality" whose content floats free of any organized religious tradition. I think that idea is obviously false. People who have spiritual practices might reject many aspects of what they call "organized religion," and they might not go to any churches or temples, but they will still be indebted to the religions they reject for most of their ideas about spiritual beings, practices, and concepts.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Damerchi I know plenty of atheists who have a secular-humanist Faith in love, freindship, peace, comraderie, etc.

See, it totally makes sense to me why people would conjure up this image of an atheist as an obviously left-leaning, anti-soldier, puppy-smashing prickface, because it's totally true, and that's what's awesome about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Renzo Faith is more about building a solid, personal relationship with a higher being

or the personal experience of a higher level of being.

I would say that any personal experience is a relationship.

//Unless of course, you were to like, come across God taking a shit in the woods, and like, he didn't see you, but you saw him. I mean, that's really not a relationship or anything. I mean, maybe if your name is boris, but not typically.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I'm just puzzled by the idea that any significant number of people have a "faith" or "spirituality" whose content floats free of any organized religious tradition. I think that idea is obviously false. People who have spiritual practices might reject many aspects of what they call "organized religion," and they might not go to any churches or temples, but they will still be indebted to the religions they reject for most of their ideas about spiritual beings, practices, and concepts.

I see what you mean, and this really rings true if you come from a a place where the religion is heavily embedded in the culture.Even if you choose to be agnostic, you can't escape all the traditions and customs. It may be something as small as taking a free-kick and unconciously letting out a prayer to score. Some cultures are so dependant on religion, that if taken away, would leave the people with no means to cope with anything.

Its hard to ever know if these ideas are pragmatic ones, and if we were to have been raised in isolation, would these ideas of faith still come to us? Obviously specific rituals like meditation are learned, but I still beleive there is an innate part of us that seeks faith in something beyond the 5 senses. Sprituality came before organized religion. Nowadays, however, its exceedingly difficuly to practice faith that is completely free from the influence of the organized influence, even if its on a subconcious level.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On I would say that any personal experience is a relationship. //Unless of course, you were to like, come across God taking a shit in the woods, and like, he didn't see you, but you saw him. I mean, that's really not a relationship or anything. I mean, maybe if your name is boris, but not typically.

yeah my point was more to question the usage of 'being' as a separate entity and to suggest that another usage of 'being', as a state of existence might be closer to the experience of god and faith.

if you believe in god your religious. the idea that you can believe in god without being religious is blasphemous bullcrap recently invented by creationists/intelligent design

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard He and I have discussed it at length in past threads.... he doesn't believe but he doesn't hate.

that's because you're as wonderful as a box full of puppies.

Faj can suck my dick though.

oh yea and i forgot to mention that i have absolutely no problem with what religion is supposed to be and represent. afterall, it promotes all things that are good (don't lie, cheat, kill, etc...). that's great, i'm all for it. i just can't stand the lies and hypocrisy in organized religion and i don't like people pushing their views on others. and i'm talking about athiests too...some athiests are just as bad as the bible pushers. just believe in what you want, go to your church and associate with people who share your beliefs and, most importantly...mind your own fucking business. IS THAT SO HARD?

Well, the trouble is that lots of religious people think you're going to hell if you don't believe what they do, so they naturally feel a strong urge to go out and convert you as they don't want anyone to burn forever. If you thought some people were headed for an eternity of torment and suffering, wouldn't you want to warn them?

i guess but i mean just respect their belief and choice to NOT believe and move on and know that you tried and just feel good about it.

i sat next to this old cuban jehova's witness lady recently on a train and we briefly touched on our beliefs and she was totally cool when i told her i'm not into organized relgion despite being confirmed in the catholic religion. we talked about cooking and recipes and how the youth of today is total shit for the ride. it was nice of her to not try to push her shit on me and i didn't really push mine on her either. i loved her and she gave me an awesome chicken recipe lol

Well, some would love nothing more than to convert you and they try really hard at it (as if they were engaged in some sort of a pyramid scheme, the more people you convert the better off you will be in heaven), and then there are those that just love the thought of your heathenish ass burning in hell. Surprisingly they are the less annoying of the two.

Also, if you explain to people that come knocking at your door that you're actually looking forward to eternal torment and suffering since your girlfriend and you are really into heavy bdsm, they are less likely to drop by for a return visit.

quote:

Originally posted by Moongoose Well, some would love nothing more than to convert you and they try really hard at it (as if they were engaged in some sort of a pyramid scheme, the more people you convert the better off you will be in heaven), and then there are those that just love the thought of your heathenish ass burning in hell. Surprisingly they are the less annoying of the two. Also, if you explain to people that come knocking at your door that you're actually looking forward to eternal torment and suffering since your girlfriend and you are really into heavy bdsm, they are less likely to drop by for a return visit.

my mom and nana are the biggest f'n hypocrites. typical "catholics" picking and chosing which parts of the religion to follow. all my mom does is bad mouth everyone and is a total selfish **** like 80% of the time, and then she tries to act all high and mighty when someone else's faults are the topic of conversation. drives me insane. i mean i love her and we don't really fight about religion because i just keep my mouth shut now when she goes on one of her little rampages like she is saint...but every now and then i have to call her out and she gets PISSED. lol god forbid you go against what she says or disagree with her. she can't handle it.

quote:

Originally posted by Moongoose Also, if you explain to people that come knocking at your door that you're actually looking forward to eternal torment and suffering since your girlfriend and you are really into heavy bdsm, they are less likely to drop by for a return visit.

If they are Jehova's Witnesses, just fly a flag of your country outside your place. They view that as idolatry.

I tried telling the women that keep coming to our door that we're Jewish and they won't stop knocking! They're like "let's read the part of the bible we both believe in together".

Last time they came I blared Marilyn Manson - they never game again.

Curiously, that worked for me as well.

1996 is like a catch-all for repelling good people who go to bed at decent hours.

While my mum doesn't believe in god at all she abuses her religion so that we have double the holidays at home. Whats better than getting presents for christmas, getting hammered on new years, then a week later you repeat both! All of the benefits, none of the hassle.

quote:

Originally posted by squirrelly I tried telling the women that keep coming to our door that we're Jewish and they won't stop knocking! They're like "let's read the part of the bible we both believe in together". Last time they came I blared Marilyn Manson - they never game again.

lol you should have had some porn on in the background that they could see also. And some Nazi swastikas too!

I used to not really mind religious people, that view is swiftly changing. I think I might be an atheist...

Well if she listens to Marilyn Manson, then porn and swastikas just come with the territory.

lol MM was my High School days... It was a last ditch effort to stop them from coming by. They kept coming at like 730 in the morning on a Saturday!

Speaking of manson...

at the very end of the video.

quote:

Originally posted by enydo I used to not really mind religious people, that view is swiftly changing. I think I might be an atheist...

Atheism is not something to 'be', it's merely a comparative trait amongst a world gone completely mad. It requires no ritual, no belief, no investment of anything whatsoever, it merely claims that there is no proof for the existence of a God, therefore the notion is ludicrous to pursue as if certain. That's the extent of it.

People are raised on church and rituals and getting up on Sunday morning to wear clean clothes, it's really no surprise whatsoever that atheism has been lumped with intellectualism, as religion is mostly fucking idiotic in the first place, and people believe they are smarter for realizing this. But I don't think it's stupid to toy with the notion of God's existence one bit. It's the investment of principles that lead people astray, if you ask me.

I know what you mean, I've just never thought of myself as an atheist, but the way I think might make me out to be one... I guess.

I just think organized religion is fucking retarded, that's basically my viewpoint.

As I stated before - the older I get, strangely, the more I am drawn to religion and becoming more a practicing jew than not. I don't know, it's weird. I used to not care as much as I do now.

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