TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Music Discussion
-- Amazing new discovery in the early house/ acid house music history
Pages (8): « 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 »

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Again, your idea seems incredibly muddy and unclear. I don't see what you really think acid means. Is it yellow smiley faces and tie dye? Is it the mechanisation of disco? Is it cold, impersonal and forboding?

i've described it quite clearly several times, mostly clear with a 3 part definition posted a few pages back.

it's obvious that people commonly use the word 'acid' to refer to that rampant bass simulacrum, and there's no point really to contest that since it's popular parlance. however the point is, this doesn't mean that other things lacking this particular instrument are not 'acid house' as well.

acid is a vibe and spirit, a technological spirit, submission to and celebration of technology and a hyperreal version or simulacrum of disco and all (black) dance music to come before it. The tb303 sound is the figurehead of the movement. I believe that its abuse and alien tweaking were an inevitable consequence of the development of synthesizer technology in general, not just a result of the tb303 instrument in particular. It was part of the spirit of the acid house movement towards the hyperreal, alvin toffler's third wave. Acid house is disco of the third wave, it is the spirit and dance of the new technological human. As such, what is important is not that a single instrument makes a sound that becomes popular, but that a whole constellation of techniques (cybernetic techniques, really) were developed in order to 'augment' human (musical and kinetic) reality. And it is this augmented reality which is 'acid'. The tb303 is merely the crest of the wave, one possible manifestation of musical destiny.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec acid is a vibe and spirit, a technological spirit, submission to and celebration of technology and a hyperreal version or simulacrum of disco and all (black) dance music to come before it.

and of the father, the son, and the holy ghost.

amen.

quote:

Originally posted by enydo and of the father, the son, and the holy ghost. amen.

good call



aciiied!

I'd ask how this definition of acid is discernibly different from techno, but I'm sure you've got another ineffable vibe for that as well. "Acid is a spirit" is about as esoteric as it gets.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I'd ask how this definition of acid is discernibly different from techno, but I'm sure you've got another ineffable vibe for that as well. "Acid is a spirit" is about as esoteric as it gets.

yes, music is not esoteric at all.

Bullshit have-cake-and-eat escape clause.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Bullshit have-cake-and-eat escape clause.

i know you like that phrase, but it doesn't seem to make sense here.

You've just created a definition of acid that allows you to lump just about any record you so please (rhythm and technology-based electronic dance music, you say!?) and then escape under the "It's all subjective/esoteric/vibes" clause when anyone disagrees.

To reiterate the point I've already made a couple of times: not only is my definition correct, it's much more lucid, precise and helpful than your nebulous word-gush.

Man, i've missed these genre-defining wars with System-J

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Totally disagree with all this. The 303 is acid. Acid is a sound, not a genre, and acid house is just house that predominantly features a 303.

This!

The TB303 is 100% responsible for that "Acid" designation. For starters, it went well with LSD (aka acid). When I've worked with DJ's who asked for an acidic sound, the TB303 emulation was always what satisfied their requirement. And Dear God, I've heard enough of shitty music made with the 303 to last a life-time; music incidentally referred to as "Acid" at the time when "Acid" music was in its heyday on the dance floor. Every Acid House record I ever picked up had a TB303 (sounding) riff in it. "Acid" and that notoriously misused little synth are absolutely synonymous. While other people have appropriated its sound for use in non-acid works, it is notoriously acidic.

Jesus! Plastik Man's (Ritchie Hawtin) Sheet One, practically a showcase for everything the TB303 was capable of that it hadn't yet been used for, is a double-entendre, implicitly linking the association between the two. It wasn't because Hawtin was designating that the 303 be associated with Acid Music. It's simply because the 303 is acid.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec No, just second hand accounts I've read about, and some first hand accounts. And anyway, if they weren't 303 it would only reinforce my point that the 303 is not acid. Not only that but I think acid house was inevitable regardless of the legendary 'accidental' discovery by phuture. (every movement needs legends though) it was a sound that had existed for some time in experimental music and there was a general push towards mechanization of disco that was a result of technology as a whole changing rapidly, as well bodies' relationship to technology and music. If that instrument hadn't been invented, I feel that we'd simply be connecting another instrument to the term 'acid', whose coining had to do with the effect and environment that the music (and the set as a whole) had on the crowd. as legend goes, people didn't know what to think about 'acid trax' when it was first played. It was Ron Hardy's dogged, mind-bending, visionary deejaying that made people want to climb the walls like they were on acid (and probably were in many cases)

So in other words, you really haven't the foggiest clue and you're just bullshitting with no discernible point.

Okay.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur So in other words, you really haven't the foggiest clue and you're just bullshitting with no discernible point. Okay.

Surmising, theorizing, wondering, fantasizing - yes, absolutely.

If you want to call that bullshitting because it makes you feel good, then be my guest, but I'm enjoying the discussion.

Does anyone here have a clue? I'm sick of these stupid little putdowns, like sjilva made earlier, which are undeniably useless, anti-social, and plain silly.

They usually go something like this:

'If you weren't alive back then, your opinion doesn't matter'
'If you don't have a degree in ____, your opinion doesn't matter'
'If you don't have a 303, your opinion doesn't matter'.

But to say there is no discernible point is just not true. The point is, as I have made over and over again, that acid house was a movement within house/dance music which does was not dependent upon the TB-303 for its existence, though the TB-303 became one of its chief identifying characteristics.

Seriously, how much clearer can I make that?

Not much clearer. Stop trying.

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker This! The TB303 is 100% responsible for that "Acid" designation. For starters, it went well with LSD (aka acid). When I've worked with DJ's who asked for an acidic sound, the TB303 emulation was always what satisfied their requirement. And Dear God, I've heard enough of shitty music made with the 303 to last a life-time; music incidentally referred to as "Acid" at the time when "Acid" music was in its heyday on the dance floor. Every Acid House record I ever picked up had a TB303 (sounding) riff in it. "Acid" and that notoriously misused little synth are absolutely synonymous. While other people have appropriated its sound for use in non-acid works, it is notoriously acidic.

I don't think anyone is in disagreement that you can say the word 'acid' and be referring to a sound that you can make with the TB-303.

The quibble is whether or not that 'acid house' can be defined without the TB-303.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Not much clearer. Stop trying.

i trust you know that was a rhetorical question.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec I don't think anyone is in disagreement that you can say the word 'acid' and be referring to a sound that you can make with the TB-303.

Eh?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec where are you getting this? acid is the 'new dance craze'. it's not an instrument or a sound. acid is a culture/movement.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec believe me, all the insufferable purist wankery is on your end, trying to define define define according to a pure notion that has no basis in reality, that is, that the sound of a tb-303 with filter and resonance is called 'acid', without any supporting evidence to your claim, in the face of several primary source accounts that disprove your argument.

Does not compute.

quote:

Originally posted by Lews Eh? Does not compute.

keep reading the thread, darling.

I've been reading the whole thing, dear

I posted these things after the quotes you pulled:

quote:

Originally posted by Yours tranny I'm willing to say that it's acceptable to call the sound of the tweaking tb303 'acid' (though I personally would never say this), if you admit that there are acid house tracks that don't use TB303, and that acid house is a movement. No reason it can't be both, it's just a word. but I still think it's more correct to say the technique is acid, whether it's a 303 or drum machine, or a sampler, or whatever.

quote:

Originally posted by Yours tranny that's why i suggested we just accept both as truth. no reason the word 'acid' can't be used to refer to: 1.) the sound of a 303 tweaking 2.) any synthesizer/drum machine/sampler manipulated in a similar way 3.) a constellation of house records mostly originating from a dance culture in chicago which signaled a distinct break from disco oriented tracks to alien-sounding, aggressive, percussive, rhythmic tracks that relied on repetitive, variously articulated mechanical manipulation and modulation of early synthesizers, drum machines, and samplers, central to which was (1).

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker This! The TB303 is 100% responsible for that "Acid" designation. For starters, it went well with LSD (aka acid). When I've worked with DJ's who asked for an acidic sound, the TB303 emulation was always what satisfied their requirement. And Dear God, I've heard enough of shitty music made with the 303 to last a life-time; music incidentally referred to as "Acid" at the time when "Acid" music was in its heyday on the dance floor. Every Acid House record I ever picked up had a TB303 (sounding) riff in it. "Acid" and that notoriously misused little synth are absolutely synonymous. While other people have appropriated its sound for use in non-acid works, it is notoriously acidic. Jesus! Plastik Man's (Ritchie Hawtin) Sheet One, practically a showcase for everything the TB303 was capable of that it hadn't yet been used for, is a double-entendre, implicitly linking the association between the two. It wasn't because Hawtin was designating that the 303 be associated with Acid Music. It's simply because the 303 is acid.

Yes, that what i've heard of as well, that the TB-303 is/was responsible for the "acid" sound. That specific tweaked sound that sounds like a sick bird or something Well, for me that specific sound defines "acid" in the same way that the super-saw defines epic trance, orchestras define classical and heavy distorted quitars define metal music. simple as that. Well, yeah there are "grey areas" because it is musical genres we are talking about and not chairs or tables (even these concrete objects can be difficult to define sometimes, i know of a few "chair" examples...) but these instruments and sounds provide the points of gravity that the majority of the genre's examples revolve, going far to the genre's boundaries ("inter-section points" with other "genre-fields").

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN Well, for me that specific sound defines "acid" in the same way that the super-saw defines epic trance, orchestras define classical and heavy distorted quitars define metal music.

Yes, and when I hear people claim that 1.) acid = 303 sound therefore 2.) acid house must have this 303 sound, to me it sounds as silly as someone claiming 1.) epic = supersaw sound therefore 2.) epic trance must have this supersaw sound, all because people all started making music with this sound and someone said it sounded epic and everyone picked the most obvious musical element to copy over and over again.


So I say, yes, let's just keep calling that sound acid, because it's so emblematic of the genre, but there are in fact plenty of acid house tracks without the TB-303, and also some without the squelchy 'acid' sound at all. They are certainly more rare - but there is more to this genre than this one sound, which is like the front man taking credit for all of the players.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec I posted these things after the quotes you pulled:

Yes, but you obviously don't think that the sound is what is acid, you're just trying to pull a, "let's just both agree that we're both right," so that you don't lose.

quote:

Originally posted by Lews Yes, but you obviously don't think that the sound is what is acid, you're just trying to pull a, "let's just both agree that we're both right," so that you don't lose.

Whoa.. paranoid much?

So the purpose of discussions is to just lambast one another and never agree on anything?

Sorry, but I like to come out with new understanding, that's why I start these things. I think this is a very interesting and typical case of the life of a genre.


Do you have anything useful to add to the discussion, or are you just going to be another noise distorting what could be a nice signal?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec Whoa.. paranoid much? So the purpose of discussions is to just lambast one another and never agree on anything?

I'm not paranoid, you just keep showing that you don't actually think acid is the sound.

I believe discussions should end with an agreement. But I think they should end with an agreement on what is correct. You refuse to accept that you are wrong and so are trying to end the discussion by saying that everyone is correct - which isn't a real end.


Edit: Everything I have to say has been said by others much more eloquently than I could ever put it which is why I've just been reading, not trying to add to the discussion. Right now I'm just calling you out.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.