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-- So the US government starts shutting down tomorrow...
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quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker Your sources are biased. The Toronto Sun? Seriously, Kevin. Corroborate your position with what can be affirmed as a neutral source or don't have one, at all. There's about a million ways I can find where all of the charts and editorials you've put forth are intellectually disingenuous, and with my dad about to lose his home because of a financial calamity routinely maintained by those who keep saying, "don't tax the job-creators" I'm about in the mood to really start shredding this fallacious narrative you keep invoking.

Fallacious eh? Like the idea that with about 50% of the population now paying no income tax, increasing taxes on a shrinking number of earners to support a growing number of people on the dole + a growing government is the engine of job creation and economic growth? Nobody is saying don't tax the job creators, we're saying don't tax them any more in these economic conditions. World's highest corporate tax rate? Check. World's highest progressive tax rate? Checkety Check.

I didn't know the St. Louis Federal Reserve was a non-neutral source for data. Don't kill the messenger on the Toronto Sun BTW... they are simply reporting data that MSNBC wouldn't dare. Democrats will never, ever agree to the type of entitlement reform and drunken spending reductions needed to solve our impending Greece scenario until a Greece scenario is actually upon us. It's really that simple. But, see, I'm the hostage taking terrorist.

ps- I feel for your dad, that fucking blows and I genuinely hate to hear that. Hope he works it out man.

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Fuck you.

You do realize it makes it very hard to take you seriously when you start your argument with something like this.

You're not a dumbass so stop acting like one man.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Fallacious eh? Like the idea that with about 50% of the population now paying no income tax, increasing taxes on a shrinking number of earners to support a growing number of people on the dole + a growing government is the engine of job creation and economic growth? Nobody is saying don't tax the job creators, we're saying don't tax them any more in these economic conditions. World's highest corporate tax rate? Check. World's highest progressive tax rate? Checkety Check. I didn't know the St. Louis Federal Reserve was a non-neutral source for data. Don't kill the messenger on the Toronto Sun BTW... they are simply reporting data that MSNBC wouldn't dare. Democrats will never, ever agree to the type of entitlement reform and drunken spending reductions needed to solve our impending Greece scenario until a Greece scenario is actually upon us. It's really that simple. But, see, I'm the hostage taking terrorist. ps- I feel for your dad, that fucking blows and I genuinely hate to hear that. Hope he works it out man.

So much bullshit in one post I can hardly breathe.

I know a lot of democrats who agree social security needs to be reformed.

Also, we might have the highest tax rates, but our paying tax rates are way fucking lower than that and you know it.

Also also, how much of the population is under the poverty line? How many people are unemployed? How many people are underwater on their houses? They pay plenty of taxes on other things, but clearly a number of people aren't going to be paying income taxes when they're struggling to get by. Now clearly we need to have some tax reform in this country, but throwing out the 50% number is just disingenuous.

Also also also, we're nowhere near a fucking Greece scenario so shut the fuck up.


Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over.

quote:

Originally posted by Alex You're not a dumbass

Are you sure?

quote:

Originally posted by Lews Are you sure?

I don't think he's stupid, he just gets into way too many TA fights.

Did someone say Jews yet?

quote:

Originally posted by Lews I know a lot of democrats who agree social security needs to be reformed. Also also, how much of the population is under the poverty line? How many people are unemployed? How many people are underwater on their houses? They pay plenty of taxes on other things, but clearly a number of people aren't going to be paying income taxes when they're struggling to get by. Now clearly we need to have some tax reform in this country, but throwing out the 50% number is just disingenuous.

I also know a lot of Democrats who SAY entitlements need to be reformed, but they never do shit about it. Ever.

You're frame of reference is so warped you don't know what "poor" is. "Poor" people here have cell phones, flat screens, and $100 Nike kicks. People considered "under the poverty line", primarily single parent families, get so many handouts, "tax credits" (welfare checks), and so on that they end up having more disposable income that a family of 4 making 60K paying their taxes. Sound crazy? I had this discussion with Ben a few weeks ago and he didn't beleive it either, till I showed him the analysis done by Wyatt Emmerch.

Clickity click--> http://i.imgur.com/e5AQk.jpg

quote:

Also also also, we're nowhere near a fucking Greece scenario so shut the fuck up.

Do your research before making uninformed stupid statements, dickhead. Ever heard of Bill Gross? He runs Pimco, the world's largest mutual fund. I guess you missed his appearance on CNBC last month where he explained how we are actually in worse financial shape than Greece, and who the fuck will be buying our Treasury bonds now? (hint- it won't be Pimco):

quote:

US Is In Worse Shape Financially Than Greece: Gross When adding in all of the money owed to cover future liabilities in entitlement programs the US is actually in worse financial shape than Greece and other debt-laden European countries, Pimco�s Bill Gross told CNBC Monday. Much of the public focus is on the nation�s public debt, which is $14.3 trillion. But that doesn�t include money guaranteed for Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, which comes to close to $50 trillion, according to government figures. The government also is on the hook for other debts such as the programs related to the bailout of the financial system following the crisis of 2008 and 2009, government figures show. Taken together, Gross puts the total at �nearly $100 trillion,� that while perhaps a bit on the high side, places the country in a highly unenviable fiscal position that he said won�t find a solution overnight. �To think that we can reduce that within the space of a year or two is not a realistic assumption,� Gross said in a live interview. �That�s much more than Greece, that�s much more than almost any other developed country. We�ve got a problem and we have to get after it quickly.� "Canada or Austria is a much better bet these days. If Greece ends up melting down, investors won�t seek shelter in the dollar, but in German debt instead. With our ugly balance sheet, the US is no longer a safe bet."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43378973

Kevin link me to more articles.

I'm so fucking FASCINATED with what you have to say.

The thing that Kevin doesn't realize is that the national debt isn't HURTING US AT ALL.

No one is going to call in our debt. The Chinese are tied to the value of our dollar, the EU/Eurozone is incredibly weak right now, and most of the other Asian economies are down in the doldrums and do not have the clout to do anything otherwise.

So why do we have to cut social programs? Why did your party invent this crisis?

We could run up another 14 trillion in debt and it wouldn't harm anyone because we are so tied up in this mess together, the whole world I mean.

So, again, why did you invent this crisis?

Also Kevin, fuck it, seriously. Your party is clearly on the wrong side of history and your antics will be the end of us, so keep going man, keep going.

I feel like stealing an icy-pole to get the taste of bullshit out of my mouth.

Kev, I don�t dispute the fact that the US has a spending problem. Tautologically, all and every deficit ever has been caused by spending. This fact isn�t being debated. However, when economists rather than journos crunch the numbers it is quite clear that without the wars, GFC, and tax cuts, the budget would be much closer to balanced. Sure, we could pull anything out of the spending pie and point to it as being a contributor, but the allegation that obama�s policies and spending have tripled the deficit = pure fantasy.

The point is that without a corresponding cut in spending, bush�s tax cuts were ill-advised and irresponsible (and that�s not even covering the prescription drugs act, have fun paying for that too.)

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby No one is going to call in our debt.

There is no such thing as �calling in debt�. Bond holders can no more call in their debt for immediate payment than my bank can.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss I also know a lot of Democrats who SAY entitlements need to be reformed, but they never do shit about it. Ever.

4 words: republican prescription drugs act.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN There is no such thing as �calling in debt�. Bond holders can no more call in their debt for immediate payment than my bank can.

EXACTLY. I meant to convey that as it is impossible. As long as we can pay off the bare minimum interest payments we are fine.

If we use the money we borrow to improve our economy by spending on infrastructure and increasing the spending power of our citizenry we can continue to grow our economy enough to cover the bare minimum of our debt and be much better off for it.

Thats how the system works, its so incredibly stupid, but people apparently believe in it (Marx be damned on his ideas of capital ).

Look at Japan, huge amounts of national debt, yet they are not in any sort of crisis about it because they know the system is meant to support this sort of behavior.

Joss, do you actually believe that will happen anytime soon? We keep wishing for the best and creating theories to make a country better, but so far no results like that has yet to be lived.

quote:

Originally posted by knowhope Joss, do you actually believe that will happen anytime soon? We keep wishing for the best and creating theories to make a country better, but so far no results like that has yet to be lived.

No, Americans are too stupid. They have no common cultural identity or bond. We essentially formed this country because the rest of Europe rejected the groups that moved here. We are the social, religious, and ethnic outcasts of the rest of the world with no trace of coherence. Our only saving grace was being in the right place at the right time during a number of external events. The US has always been a reactor to world change, not a creator of it.

U.S Government:

I love being a nation essentially held hostage multiple times so a fucking political party can get their way.

Cool.

Cool shit.

quote:

In a brief statement, the former Massachusetts governor said he "personally cannot support this deal" because it leaves open the possibility of future tax increases or further defense cuts.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...,0,452826.story










SERIOUSLY?

FUCKING SERIOUSLY?

NO NEW TAXES BUT WE CANT CUT DEFENSE EITHER.

GOD FUCKING DAMN IT!

Stupidity is a factor, but it's the way the high ranking American politicians want to make US. They want to create their ideal world, while being funded and supported by the citizen paying for everything. When they lose their support, maybe one day they will see light.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I feel like stealing an icy-pole to get the taste of bullshit out of my mouth.

Watching Nou & 17sss argue about politics is like watching 2 retards in a boxing match.

Seriously, Nou, can you STFU? You're not helping. Your analogies are way off and your broader understanding is poor. Which is why Opus & Occrider always provided much better rebuttals to what Kevin always posted in PDD. While I disagree with almost everything Kevin advocates, he's smarter than you and provides better researched opinions (even if they're biased). Just stop.

This country's simply too dumb to govern itself. Let's face it, most people voting don't even understand ANYTHING about what they vote over, minus a few "issues." This is exemplified by the Teabagger caucus. They want the deficit cut, but want the "Government to keep their dirty hands off their Medicare." They want services, yet think someone else deserves to pay for them.

I live in a state that gets raped by the federal government when you look at what they get for their federal tax payments vs. benefits. I love hearing states like Alaska brag about their fiscal responsibility when you see that they get nearly $2 in benefits for every $1 paid in federal taxes. They are fucking leeches.

You want a balanced budget amendment (that sounds like a good idea until you actually understand it)...how about adding to it that no states get more money than their state pays in federal taxes?

The death of the PDD may not have been such a bad thing after all.

I do miss opus� rapings of kev.

quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy I live in a state that gets raped by the federal government when you look at what they get for their federal tax payments vs. benefits. I love hearing states like Alaska brag about their fiscal responsibility when you see that they get nearly $2 in benefits for every $1 paid in federal taxes. They are fucking leeches. You want a balanced budget amendment (that sounds like a good idea until you actually understand it)...how about adding to it that no states get more money than their state pays in federal taxes?

Now now, let�s not be silly. Smaller communities will almost always receive a disproportionate amount of taxation revenue. They�re not leeches, it�s just more cost effective to provide various services in regions that contain a lot of people. If your amendment was passed you would be withdrawing services from certain areas despite the fact that the citizens in these regions pay the same rates of tax as everyone else. I don�t see it as fundamentally different to taxing an income of $1M at a different rate than $50,000.

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