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-- One Night in Hackney
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Originally posted by kr00t0n Hello Rioters. Look at your friend, now back to me. Now at your friend, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me, but if he stopped using petrol bombs and started using job centre he could potentially be me. Look down, back up. Where are we? You're at an interview with the man your friend could work for. What's in your hand? Back at me. I have it. It's an application form to that job you need. Look again. The form is now money. Anything is possible when you get a job and stop looting shit like a ****. I'm on the tube.

Fucken lol

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss I hear you man. Fuck. Some pretty sobering words here from a local Londoner, and I think very relevant (even though I'm not living there like you are- this just makes sense to me) Since you live there I'd like your general thoughts on some points from the article I'm speaking of below: Then he gets into some pretty interesting points that apply the same here in America; a generation or 2 of spoiled, entitlement minded people who face less and less consequence for their action are easily replaced by Eastern Europeans (in our case usually Mexicans) who work harder, and are, more importantly, willing to work harder: And the 3rd leg seems to be a mix of family breakdown and how the police have shifted to a standard of supporting perpetrators' rights over the rights of actual victims (reminds me of the movie Harry Brown with Michael Caine from last year): Finally, a sad and probably all-too-true anecdote that is also a very commonly growing problem here in the States:

Spot on, i agree with 99.75% of what that says.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by The17sss
WALL OF TEXT [/QUOTE

Does the article mention what "�disproportionate� action" constitutes as, or link to any cases where homeowners have been convicted?

I mean, if I woke up in the middle of the night (highly unlikely) by someone breaking in to my house, I would say it was my right to defend my property, and safety, by any means necessary. If the perpetrator didn't want his head bashed in with a bat, he'd stay the fuck out of my house unless he's been invited in.

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Originally posted by raunchy There's an underlying anger building around the world with ordinary people getting screwed by economic forces beyond their control. They can't afford houses, get jobs and the violence eventually starts to emerge. There's even been riots in Vancouver and a smaller one in LA recently at the EDC premiere of all things. I think we're going to start to see more of them around the world. People are frustrated. Of course that doesn't excuse the looting and greedy behavior.

You know what destroys your entire argument? The fact that they are coordinating their activities via Blackberry Messenger and social media. Protesting a low quality of life due to economic forces on your Blackberry.... yeah, they're pretty hard done by, eh?

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard You know what destroys your entire argument? The fact that they are coordinating their activities via Blackberry Messenger and social media. Protesting a low quality of life due to economic forces on your Blackberry.... yeah, they're pretty hard done by, eh?

You are entirely correct in your statement. Instead of spending their money on food, shelter and other necessities, they spend them on expensive shoes, clothes and other "status items" like phones, tablets and jewellery.

During the brief time I lived in the UK, I sometimes got sent through Western Union. The only place in Warrington that had a Western Union affiliation was a pawn shop, and their displays were filled with cheesy fucking marihuana gold necklaces.

6 shots have been fired in the chelsea area of london. None of them hit the target. Police would like to speak to a Fernando Torres about the incident.

Lol, Had to google who it was

looter fail!

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Originally posted by Sushipunk We're going to need to work on that accent, and your beer intake.

I have seen your Aussie beer intake and it is obviously that I was not impressed.

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Originally posted by The17sss looter fail!

Brilliant.

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Originally posted by The17sss looter fail!

That is Vancouver, not London.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss I hear you man. Fuck. Some pretty sobering words here from a local Londoner, and I think very relevant (even though I'm not living there like you are- this just makes sense to me) Since you live there I'd like your general thoughts on some points from the article I'm speaking of below: Then he gets into some pretty interesting points that apply the same here in America; a generation or 2 of spoiled, entitlement minded people who face less and less consequence for their action are easily replaced by Eastern Europeans (in our case usually Mexicans) who work harder, and are, more importantly, willing to work harder: And the 3rd leg seems to be a mix of family breakdown and how the police have shifted to a standard of supporting perpetrators' rights over the rights of actual victims (reminds me of the movie Harry Brown with Michael Caine from last year): Finally, a sad and probably all-too-true anecdote that is also a very commonly growing problem here in the States:

Very poignant and nearly entirely accurate. The only tiny sentiment I don't agree with out of all those three legs, is them being likened to wild beasts - while they may run wild, they're absolutely reliant on the social infrastructure that allows them to behave this way - I doubt they could survive on their own without support, and as the piece points out that is inherent with the real problem.


I don't actually live in the UK anymore, I now live in LA and that's one of things that kind of makes me see the contrast with this situaion.

I mean, christ, I can't even imagine what it would be like if a riot happened and footlocker got raided every time someone was shot near where I live (nearly a daily occurrance).

The main problem as you pointed out is that the social leanings of how
law is practised in the UK, is no longer in keeping with a large portion of the current makeup of UK society, namely the working class.

PC behaviour and idealist protection laws are no longer helping - in California, you can shoot someone who enters your house with intent.

In the UK, you will most definately go to trial, and probably be charged with manslaughter if you can't prove that your life was at imminent risk.

This combined with the UK's immigration policy (or complete and utter lack thereof) and has led to a soft approach on deteriorating communities.

An example of this is where I grew up - It used to be the Irish part of London, and had tons of cosy pubs - sure it was run down and a bit pikey, but it was generally safe and you knew your neighbours. in the early 00's there was a massive influx of Eastern Europeans who took all the housing, all the construction jobs (and that was really the main income in the area) then started buying up the flats to do them up and flip them. The irish got forced out due to rent and buy prices increasing and the Eastern Europeans had no real interest in integrating, so shops sprung up that don't even have signs in english or sell anything that is native to the UK.

Not that it's bad to an extent - I lovedd the fact it's a true multicultural society but there has to be limits, otherwise it's detrimental. Another example is how badly the government estimated the influx of polish workers when they opened the border to them.

The naive expectation was 60,000, but instead 600,000 came, and took any job that was going, with all that money being sent out of the country. Great, you could get a plumber for cheap but it completely fucked local tradesmen and the industry as a whole.

Now combine this with the sense of entitlement that Yoof now have, and instead of working your way up from the bottom, they'll just sit on the dole, in a council flat, flexing weed to pay their mobile phone bills. They're too complacent to work a minimum wage job, and in fairness why should they? It's somewhat a poverty trap.

I actually believe in a social welfare structure, but the current UK situation is an example of what happens at the extreme end of it when you give too much and ask for nothing in return. There's probably not a better country in the world to be jobless in.

Ken Livingstone can fuck off - it's not the 1980's and this isn't about race or poverty, as the brixton riots clearly were. He's a out of touch dinosaur, still licking his wounds because the one thing he did get right (the GLC) got closed down and no one wanted to touch him for over 10 years.

@Stu - fuck that, you lot think fosters actually tastes good

Do you guys have welfare stats for the UK? I hear all of the time that so many people are on it, but it would be nice to get an idea of what is actually going on with that. Welfare states never quite work, but nor do countries that offer 0 support to people that need it. It is really a slippery slope to find the right solution or a happy medium.

quote:

Originally posted by Zyklon_Jay Do you guys have welfare stats for the UK? I hear all of the time that so many people are on it, but it would be nice to get an idea of what is actually going on with that. Welfare states never quite work, but nor do countries that offer 0 support to people that need it. It is really a slippery slope to find the right solution or a happy medium.

Here you go:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/STATBA...t.asp?vlnk=7753

There's a link to an excel spreadsheet with the figures, I could be wrong but from what i could see they are from 2003, meaning they are a probably worse since the recession.

note that if you look at the areas with riots, such as Hackney, it's up to 24%, more than double the figure than most of the other areas. In rural areas, it'a actually fairly low, only around 8%.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN In the UK, you will most definately go to trial, and probably be charged with manslaughter if you can't prove that your life was at imminent risk

Not true. The law has recently changed and in a landmark case a month or two ago a man stabbed a burglar to death in his property and after questioning walked free. No trial.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN

Thanks for taking the time for the long reply man.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN @Stu - fuck that, you lot think fosters actually tastes good

You're quite mistaken, sir. Where I live, I'd have trouble even finding a store that sells Foster's. No one (Australian) drinks it here at all, we just sell it to the English

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Here you go: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/STATBA...t.asp?vlnk=7753 There's a link to an excel spreadsheet with the figures, I could be wrong but from what i could see they are from 2003, meaning they are a probably worse since the recession. note that if you look at the areas with riots, such as Hackney, it's up to 24%, more than double the figure than most of the other areas. In rural areas, it'a actually fairly low, only around 8%.

Thanks man, I'll give them a look post rape.

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Originally posted by Sushipunk You're quite mistaken, sir. Where I live, I'd have trouble even finding a store that sells Foster's. No one (Australian) drinks it here at all, we just sell it to the English

Ours is brewed in Glasgow you pecker.

Actually, apparently the Aussie Fosters is different to the UK Fosters.

quote:

Originally posted by Jarvmeister Ours is brewed in Glasgow you pecker.

I know that, you misunderstood me. I'll re-phrase: The only people in Australia that drink Foster's are the English.

Murica never has riots coz we all own guns. /stretch /flex /stretch

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Finally, a sad and probably all-too-true anecdote that is also a very commonly growing problem here in the States:

I think the US set the standard for riots after the LA ones in 1992 that went for 6 days and killed 50 odd people if I remember way back when, a lot of the same root causes for them as well.
*Coloured minority abused by cops
*Large amount of poor as beans young people with no future
*Rioters turn on migrant owned businesses
*Eventually inertia just flows into looting for no reason

quote:

Originally posted by Jarvmeister Ours is brewed in Glasgow you pecker. Actually, apparently the Aussie Fosters is different to the UK Fosters.

Kind of like a proper Czech Budweiser vs that piss (literarly) poor american excuse for a beer

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith I think the US set the standard for riots after the LA ones in 1992 that went for 6 days and killed 50 odd people if I remember way back when, a lot of the same root causes for them as well. *Coloured minority abused by cops *Large amount of poor as beans young people with no future *Rioters turn on migrant owned businesses *Eventually inertia just flows into looting for no reason

Yeah, but the LA Riots were managed by the fact that so many Asian shopkeepers were well-armed.

Bumping this thread now that the repercussions are becoming apparent. The UK justice system is not fvcking around.

I think these are some great examples:
� David Swarbrick, 25, was jailed for two years after he stole �25 worth of Oil of Olay.
� Father-of-four Anthony Winder, 38, looted and smashed a display cabinet to get an ornamental dog. He was also jailed for two years.


I hope the Oil of Olay and ornamental dog were worth it! Pillocks.

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