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-- Vinyls vs. CDs
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This is a good question and an argumentable one!
This is my opinion and review on the subject and everyone is intitled to there own.
First of all most people like to see vinyl being playing rather than CD's, for the show. However there is a misconception towards the DJ that spin CD's. It takes the same talent to mix CD's that it takes for vinyl. If you are a Dj that can use both types of media then you really have an edge over the DJ that spins vinyl exclusively.
OK I play both vinyl and CD's and enjoy both of them equally. Vinyl has something that CD's lack and that is the warmth of analog. However vinyl does have it's downfalls. First of all, everytime you play a piece of vinyl, you are literally destroying that piece of music. I have a lot of 80's retro on vinyl that were played night after night in club and you can tell that they are badly damaged. I recommend burning a copy of any song you really like directly to CD when you first buy it for backup. Also there is the problem of static and pops with vinyl. CD's are digitally master and don't usually have that problem. Although CD's lack the warmth of analog, the digital sound from CD's is usually better and you are not harming the song each time you play it. Another advantage CD's have is that they compact and weigh very little. If you have ever toted crates of vinyl around you know what I mean. I had a gig one time with some other DJ's that played vinyl exclusively and they had some requests for some older songs that they couldn't fullfill because they had only enough room in the vinyl case for there most current pieces. In a case the size of a very small suitcase I have enough CD's to go back several years or further and can in most cases fullfill all requests. So there is really not a good answer to the question of which is better, but as far as convience and space consumption go, CD's are the better choice. One other thing I really like about mixing with CD's is that once you find your cue point and cue it, it is ready when you need to start your mix. Vinyl on the other hand can from time to time skip off the groove right when you are getting ready to start your mix and really mess things up for a DJ that needs to start a mix on a particular break. OK well enough said about all this, just remember all you DJ's out there don't let anyone rag you about mixing with CD's because it's not the media you choose but the talent it takes to beat mix it into a smooth transition from one song to the next.
((DJ MADNESS))
See, I dunno.
I'd like to learn to make my own Trance music. How do I do that?
I'm getting a Synthesizer and 2 Turntables. Is that all I need? Or should I get a CD system too?
if you want to make your own trance music your gonna need a computer a sinth and maby a sampler, turntabels digital or anoglog are only for playback not creating
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| Originally posted by Necromancer See, I dunno. I'd like to learn to make my own Trance music. How do I do that? I'm getting a Synthesizer and 2 Turntables. Is that all I need? Or should I get a CD system too? |
OK..let's say I already created the music.
I don't know how to make my own vinyl, so how would I play it back via Turntables?
I *could* burn the tracks onto CD's, but I have another option..
What about MD? 2 MD Decks and a Mixer? MD's are high-quality and ATRAC3-encoded, so I can make it sound really good.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Necromancer OK..let's say I already created the music. I don't know how to make my own vinyl, so how would I play it back via Turntables? I *could* burn the tracks onto CD's, but I have another option.. What about MD? 2 MD Decks and a Mixer? MD's are high-quality and ATRAC3-encoded, so I can make it sound really good. |
A producers reaction
Okay, so sometimes the real thing is better than digital. I work in a photolab. People rave about the digtal cameras and I wince. I have never seen a digital camera take a picture that has the same quality as film. I would much rather see a puppet creation of the Jim Hanson studio over any character created on some computer somewhere. The former always seems so much more real. But I am still a child of this so called "digital age". I do all of my production on my home computer. I like having my sequencer, snyths, and mixer all in one convient little box. I like my graphic interface that shows me everything all at once whenever I want to see it.
Truth of it is, as a person who is just beginning to produce my own music I don't care if my music is ever put out on vinyl or CD. All I care about is that people like it, and want to listen to it. That's all that any artist really wants.
Digital CD decks challenge vinyl
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| Originally posted by BBC News Digital CD decks challenge vinyl Erick Morillo is a keen supporter of the new equipment The success of a digital system that allows CDs to be scratched and mixed in the same way as 12-inch records could mean the death end of DJs using vinyl, a top DJ and record producer has said. The system, called the CDJ-1000 and produced by technology company Pioneer, has been designed to replicate as much as possible a traditional vinyl deck, but taking advantage of modern digital technology. The decks, which have already won a number of awards, have been given great approval by Erick Morillo, boss of Subliminal records and one of the most influential DJs in the world. "I'm letting technology take over," Mr Morillo told BBC World Service's The Music Biz programme. "With the introduction of the CDJ-1000 I feel like there's a whole new way of DJing these days." Live remixing The key to the system - which resembles a small version of a vinyl deck - is a grooved, touch-sensitive jog wheel, which allows records to be stopped and scratched at any time. Until now, the inability to do this was one of the key reasons DJs had shunned performing with CD decks. Deck has a memory card that recalls edit points for tracks Additionally, the system has an internal memory that can remember cue and loop points, and allows tracks to be remixed live. "When I'm DJing with vinyl, I'm bored now," Mr Morillo said. "With CDJs you can loop the records at whatever point you want. "I take my filters and I'm remixing records on the fly." Pioneer say that they developed the system with DJs to try and tackle the problems encountered when using traditional CD players. "What we did here was look at all the objections that DJs had against using our existing range of DJ CD players, and basically overcome them," Pioneer spokesman Martin Docherty told The Music Biz. "That's why this product has been so successful, and it's now the industry standard across the world." Abandoning vinyl The system also has a memory card that recalls edit points for tracks, meaning that a DJ can travel with only the card and their CDs. The card is inserted into another CDJ-1000 deck and the player will recognise all cue and loop points. "Many DJs are still using vinyl, but they're now using vinyl alongside CD, simply because of the extra performance value," Mr Doherty added. The specialists will argue there's a certain sound you're missing, and absolutely, they're right Erick Morillo "DJing is becoming very competitive, and DJs are now looking for alternative pieces of hardware to enhance their set and give them the edge over the competition." Mr Morillo confirmed that he and his record label were abandoning vinyl in favour of the new technology. "It's funny because I was a spokesman for vinyl. About two years ago I said vinyl will never go away, vinyl this, vinyl that," he said. "But [the decks] really do feel like vinyl, and you can put as big a show with the CDJ-1000 as you can do with turntables. "So now, I'll probably be the person that is going to spearhead this whole changeover to CDs and being a vinyl label, it's kind of weird to hear me say that. "With each vinyl release, we're going to include a CD with all the mixes as well, because that's where it's going." Mr Morillo conceded that the complaint most often levelled against CDs by vinyl enthusiasts - that the sound is too clinical and lacks warmth - remained true. "The specialists will argue there's a certain sound you're missing, and absolutely, they're right," he noted. "But the convenience far outweighs the little sound that you may be missing." |
Want to DJ for cheap? Here's how!
1. Buy two discmans and pull the lids off.
2. Buy the cheapest mixer you can find.
3. Design and build variable 16 MHz oscillator, to over/underclock the discmans. This is your pitch control.
4. Mix until thoroughly addicted and you need to upgrade 
Re: Want to DJ for cheap? Here's how!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by nebbian 1. Buy two discmans and pull the lids off. 2. Buy the cheapest mixer you can find. 3. Design and build variable 16 MHz oscillator, to over/underclock the discmans. This is your pitch control. 4. Mix until thoroughly addicted and you need to upgrade |
Re: Want to DJ for cheap? Here's how!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by nebbian 1. Buy two discmans and pull the lids off. 2. Buy the cheapest mixer you can find. 3. Design and build variable 16 MHz oscillator, to over/underclock the discmans. This is your pitch control. 4. Mix until thoroughly addicted and you need to upgrade |
Just shows how much passion you have for spinning -- "Can't afford decks? I don't need decks -- I BUILD decks." 
| quote: |
| That is *such* a cool setup!! Just shows how much passion you have for spinning -- "Can't afford decks? I don't need decks -- I BUILD decks." |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by nebbian Yeah I have to admit I didn't like the vibe of some of the posts here, they seem to think that DJ'ing is all about the image you present, so you have to spin vinyl and buy the most expensive gear possible 'cos that's what the "pro's" do. Well, it might be what some people do but really for me it's all about the music. CD's let me get into DJ'ing, and let me go spastic with the electronics (which I LOVE) so it's all good. Vinyl just doesn't have the capacity to muck around with, besides you can't spin all your old favourites. |
j/k
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You're into goa as well? Man it rules hey! If you haven't come across some CD's by Raja Ram entitled "Raja Ram's Stash Bag" (volumes 1 and 2) then GET THEM! They are 10/10, no, more like 11/10. Volume 1 got me hooked on Goa, and Volume 2 arrived a couple of weeks ago, and it's redefined the meaning of 'farkin awesome'! http://goatrance.free.fr/reviews/rajarams.htm http://goatrance.free.fr/reviews/CHI00121.htm What's your favourite Goa artists? here's a quick list of some of mine: GMS, Zorba, Asterix, 1200 micrograms. I'm looking for new stuff, so let me know OK??? |
| quote: |
| How about scratching? j/k I see what you are saying; however, when spinning with vinyl, there is a great joy associated with it. I don't know exactly what it is, but it seems to be a mix of the "novelty" of records coupled with the smell, the feel, the sense of control over the record, etc. |
| quote: |
| Can you say, hijacked thread? |
This has to be about the coolest setup that I have ever seen.
Although I am not a big fan of CDs I do use them when necessary (for my own tracks or something I have not managed to get on vinyl).
Some of the things I like about vinyl though are as mentioned before the warmth of the analog sound. Which is ironic as it's actually a recording of digital sound in the first place.
I also like the fact that you can 'read' a record, I find that although I may know a song well on CD it just doesn't feel as reasuring as it does when you look over at vinyl and see as well as hear where you are in the track.
Someone mentioned that you can't do as many tricks with records as you can with a CD. Well in my humble opinion I think they are wrong. I started out as a Hip Hop/Electro DJ in the mid 80's and have taken a lot of the skills learned with me (Although I must admit I don't scratch with trance as that would sound pants). I have some things like putting melodies and basslines from two different songs together (live remix if you will) and then mixing a third record in to the remaining bassline etc and CDs take to long to search and que for this purpose. When you place a CD in a turntable it doesn't become playable imeadiately it does some TOC reading first and that messes with the timing.
What I don't like about this thread is that some people are suggesting that CDJs are lesser DJs than vinyl DJs. The bottom line is that most people who come to a club want to hear good music and are really not too fussy about how it's delivered or even how well you mix. It's about picking the right tune at the right time plain and simple. Unless you are really big most people are not even there to see you (But it feels freaking amazing when they are!)
As for people talking about the lack of respect for people who have CDs and not having spent the time to track down tracks is utter cack! You might as well take it to the next level and complain about people having re-issues too.
I don't however think that CDs will take over from vinyl. For me and many others there is just a certain magic about it. Also with trance for something to come out on CD it has to be fairly big. Vinyl offers more choice.
Each to his/her own
Cheers
Nemesis44
| quote: |
| Originally posted by nebbian Cheers man! Yeah I have to admit I didn't like the vibe of some of the posts here, they seem to think that DJ'ing is all about the image you present, so you have to spin vinyl and buy the most expensive gear possible 'cos that's what the "pro's" do. Well, it might be what some people do but really for me it's all about the music. CD's let me get into DJ'ing, and let me go spastic with the electronics (which I LOVE) so it's all good. Vinyl just doesn't have the capacity to muck around with, besides you can't spin all your old favourites. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Dj Flesch This statement brings up a very good point. I think that there are three main reasons that people get into DJing. First, people do it for the wrong reason of getting "popular". Fame, money, women, which ever. That is the worst reason ever. The other two reasons are pretty good and show the dichotomy of why people get into DJing in the first place. These two main reasons are love of music, or the love of manipulating music through electronics. Those who love the raw music, the trance and melodies them selves, and wish to bring it to anyone willing to listen, are those DJs like Oakenfold, Tiesto, PVD etc. Then there are those that love taking great music and manipulating it such that it becomes their own. These are artists, rather, turntablists like QBert etc that manipulate vinyl like a musician rather than a DJ. |
12" for life.
cd decks
Hmm having just bought some numark 9 cd decks after using technics for 15 yrs ive got to admit that that there very easy to use and cd s can be manipulated in ways vinyl never will be .So the 2 formats will probably be used in conjuction with one another .Just another point about some peoples attitude on this forum stop being so arsey about the subject i dont think ive ever been into a club and demanded that dj s play vinyl. Sounds like some of you guys are in to it for the wrong reasons MONEY AND WEARING SPANDEX TOPS hehe at the end of the day you play other peoples records or even your own, so what! dj are every where now, the original ethos of house music was for eveybody to have a good time and dance not argue about diffent formats etc and slagging other people off because they ve downloaded some tunes off the internet .If your into the music then good if your into it to be famous or have people kissing your arse then then your a cock end who s missing the point and more likely than not a shit dj and a complete wanker to boot .
Anyone know where they sell spandex body suits? 
Hey Masterblaster, good to see more people seeing the value of learning more skills.
The true essence of DJing is making people have a good time plain and simple.
It's worth remembering that people come to the club so that you can entertain them, they are not there to worship you.
If a DJ with CDs rocks the crowd better than a guy with vinyl no one is going to say "ah... hold on a second, he's using CDs so we had better stop having a good time". Most people don't actually have the chance to see what you are using anyway.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am not a fan but that refers to my own use of them not the skills that someone has built up.
That's the fun thing about this forum as you allways have to ask yourself, how many of these people actually DJ seriously and how many have even been to a night club for that matter? (This is not aimed at anyone in particular, just a general comment).
Cheers
Nemesis
Well, I've read through this entire thread and haven't found the answer I'm looking for. Currently I am just starting to get into DJing, for the time being while I am learning I am just mixing mp3s. Not with mixmeister though, I am actually using my ears with two outputs and beatmatching by ear with a program for Mac computers called Megaseg. Anyways, my point is that I have a very basic understanding of how to mix by ear. I am now ready to start getting mixing equipment and am now wondering on the difference on how one would mix a CD as opposed to a vinyl. I also have some idea on how to mix on a turntable even though I have never done it, I'm saying I have an idea on how it would be done, I would just need to practice to get it properly.
To mix I first find a cue point for the next song and let the two play on beat. I then wait for them to lose beat and then figure out which is faster and nudge the cued song and adjust the speed accordingly and try again to see if they hold beat. I'm sure there are probably much faster ways to do this but I am just a beginner and am not intersted in how eveyone else does it, I want to figure it out for myself.
Now to my question. how would the technique differ between CDJs and Turntables for mixing? I know if you want to slow down the cued song on turntables you would just put pressure on the platter to bring it back into beat. To speed it up you can just grab the 'nob' in the middle of the plater and twist it. On a turntable you also have a pitch adjuster which adjusts the speed. How would you do these things on a CDJ? I've also thought of trying to spin the record with my finger(s) so that keeps beat with the other song and then adjust the speed of the platter until the vinyl stops slipping on the slipmat. Is this a good way to mix? Can I use this same method with CDJs?
I apologise if this is the wrong thread for this question but I want to use this information to help me decide which equipment to purchse.
Also, on a separate note, about sound quality, I don't know at what frequency productions are recorded to the computer but I know that they are encoded at 44.1kHz to CD. One useful piece of information that would pertain to the earlier discussion about sound quality is that ANY ANALOGUE SIGNAL WHICH IS BAND LIMITED (all frequencies are below a given frequency f) CAN BE DIGITALLY REPRODUCED WITH NO DEGREDATION IF IT IS SAMPLED AT A RATE THAT IS TWICE AS MUCH AS THE BAND LIMIT (2f), in our third year communications course at university this was known as the Sampling theorem. it can be proven but I am not going to do it here. My point is, if CDs are sampled at 44.1Khz, they must have frequencies no higher than 22.05kHz if they are to be reproduced with no signal degredation.
I eagerly await an answer to my question.
Cheers.
Hi Physe!
Good to see you're not letting the stereotypes get in the way of enjoying your music, and even better you're using a mac!! (I'm a proud iBook owner myself :-) )
OK to beatmatch on a CDJ system:
Get one song playing at 0% pitch.
Now listen to the other song in your headphones. When you hear the cue point (the point at which the beat starts), hit pause. Now you can scroll the cue point back and forwards with the jog wheel (most CDJ's have a jog wheel). The player will repetatively play about a quarter of a second of song, so you can hear when the right cue point is selected.
Hit play, and the beat should start straightaway. Then hit cue again, and the player will go back to the cue point. If the beat started too early then move the jog wheel to the left, if it started too late then move it right, and hit play again to see if you got it right. This process usually takes me about 3-5 seconds to get right.
Now that you've got the cue point set up properly, wait for a suitable beat on the playing track, and hit Play on your cued track. The aim here is to get the pitch right. Every CDJ I've seen has pitch bend buttons. These are for speeding up and slowing down the 'platter'. Chances are you won't get the beats bang on time when you hit Play, so hit these buttons until the beats line up. My CDJ's have a bit of momentum in them to simulate a moving platter (which is more annoying than useful) so don't worry if you can't figure out why you keep overshooting.
If you get it completely wrong then don't worry, just hit 'cue' and wait for another suitable part of the playing song.
OK, now that the beats are lined up, keep them lined up with the pitch bend buttons. If you keep hitting the + button, then move the pitch slider in the + direction. If you keep hitting the - button, then slow the pitch slider down. Eventually you'll reach the point where the two beats happen at exactly the same time, and you don't have to hit the buttons any more.
OK, cue point set, pitch set, all that you need to do now is hit 'cue' again, to get your cue point back, and wait for a suitable point in the playing track before starting your cued track! Once again, when the new song starts you have to correct the phase with the + and - buttons, and now you're right to start fading the new track in. Fade this in on a transition (16 or 32 beats after your cue point) and you can do funky things with the bass and treble controls on your mixer if you feel like it.
And that's how I do it.
I can go from putting a CD into the deck to having it beatmatched and going out the speakers in roughly 30 seconds, and I'm by no means an expert...
Good luck, go into your local musical instrument store (that sell guitars and the like), chances are they might have a CDJ or two sitting up the back that you can have a play with.
Most of all, have fun
CD Vs Vinyl ?
CD = 44.1 KHz
Vinyl = 48 KHz
The human ear can hear upto about 18 KHz (20 KHz if your ear is "newly born" ).
Considering I'm 18 y/o, I'm more used to CDs... which are the standart to me, so when I listen to a vinyl - I can listen to the differencey between the two!
Vinyl sounds better comparing to a CD... although after 18KHz - you can only FEEL the frequencies.
48KHz > 44.1 KHz, therefore you can feel more.
And going more into it - a Vinyl is physically "written" on. It's analog, which means it has a nice "unbroken" wave-form coming from it (using the needle).
CD is binary, meaning- it's wave-form is "broken" and can't contain all the musical data of an "unbroken" wave-form. it can NEVER get to the vinyl's quality.
That's it folks... come back next week fooooor - s0undw4v3's horror picture show!
Salamtek! (or cya'll in english 
)
Great info!
Wow...
That is some good info.
Thanks
Nem
I prefer to spin with vinyl ...
But i don't care what other people use, so long as it sounds good
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