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-- what song are you desperate to get a full rip?
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Originally posted by Vesa I respect your attempt to honour artists' rights because there will be no more trance vinyls unless people buy a certain amount (though I think most people at TA have bought more than their share). However, there's also a third category of artists, which you haven't mentioned. Artists who are no longer active. More so if their productions were good but unnoticed. Their primary goal is that their efforts in music will not be forgotten. When I prepared an update for TDS last month, I went through 50% of all trance vinyls ever released. There's lots of stuff that is sold out on vinyl. After a certain time passes, even the mp3s will no longer be kept online. It's a tragedy for trance community, and most of all to artists, if their works are forgotten because of unavailability. So I claim that mp3 exchange of hard-to-get tracks is essential for the whole trance community. It gives us an option to retain the heritage of trance culture. We can always buy the vinyls later. But we need to get mp3s of year 1999-2000 tracks now, or lose them (like the many tracks in this thread that no-one has).

C'mon, not many here are looking for tracks that old. Many are looking for tunes that could still be released commercially, but may not be due to the spreading of mp3's. Besides, don't you think that some of those artists that are also DJ's don't WANT to release some of these tunes, so that they can be the only one's to have these tunes?

Don't talk to me about the "heritage of trance culture" if you're not talking about trance pre-1999, which odds are you know very little about. I don't see anyone asking for the tunes which trance was built upon, do you?

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Originally posted by Vesa Besides, there may later appear unexpected uses for the mp3s. If trance music should get in a bad state (too commercial or too few releases), we can listen again through the older tracks, and start a retro boom. The vinyls will no longer be available, so no-one can check out the tracks that way. Trance community must listen to the mp3s, and then ask for represses of chosen tracks. Another unexpected use is if someone wants to research history of trance music. He will need a lot of material (mp3s) to get a proper picture.

First, trance IS in a bad state, and I'm listening to plenty of retro tracks, which I can do BECAUSE I BOUGHT THE CD'S WHEN THEY WERE RELEASED!

Seconldy, alot of tunes will not be repressed because the companies may no longer be in business, which may or may not have been caused by mp3 sharing. I'd love to see some old trance tunes from a decade ago be repressed, but sadly many of those labels are no longer in existence. Also, there are many distributors who are still stocking records from over a decade ago. I was EXTREMELY surprised at the back catalogue one of my newest distros has, and I've acquired a selection of old tunes I missed out on. If one were to take a stroll down to their local record store and ask someone to order it, they would know that (in some instances) a re-press isn't needed.

If you want a history of trance, there are a number of us who were around when trance fisrt became a genre over a decade ago, who'd be more than happy to share their perspectives of the past 10+ years.

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Originally posted by Vesa This whole thing of exchange of hard-to-get mp3s arises because trance is an underground music culture. The vinyls are made in small quantities, and can't be found in libraries.

But they CAN be found in record stores. There are PLENTY of records, CD's, and tapes floating around second hand for some of these older tunes.

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Originally posted by Vesa So we need to make an equivalent on our own. Many artists, record labels and their supporters oppose mp3 sharing because they see it as leeching, and completely miss this other purpose to their own peril.

Those that share full mp3 rips miss out on the fact that it's killing the foundation of what suports the music, and that is the record stores that carry the records! If record stores continue to go out of business like they've been doing recently, there will be no outlets for the labels to sell to, hence fewer and/or no new releases (I think there was an example listed here earlier of a tune that was set to be released, but the label went out of biz...)

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Originally posted by ck1121 The people in here are right. 99% of cds out are garbage with two or three good songs if that on them. I would much rather pay for an mp3 than a cd or vinyl anyway. when I get home and I want to listen to some music, I don't feel like putting a cd single into my cd player and then having to switch it when I'm done, it's so much easier to load up a playlist. And vinyls are even worse, some of us just want to kick back and relax, we don't want to have to switch a vinyl every time a song ends.. Not only that but I don't even have turntables in the first place so getting most of these songs in a format other than mp3 is a little difficult for me. but that's just my 2 cents, you can take it however you like

Buy a CD and/or a vinyl, then make an MP3 of it, then load up a playlist. Doing so is within the "Fair Use" terms.

Well well well well.....dj maytag...another trance.nu member i think. Let's think here....I own maybe 3 12"'s....no albums....if I want an album I'll buy it. But I have mp3's....does that make it wrong?.

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Originally posted by DJMaytag Buy a CD and/or a vinyl, then make an MP3 of it, then load up a playlist. Doing so is within the "Fair Use" terms.

I notice that on your site you link to a place to download tunes, ie here, so obviously u don't feel 'that' against it else you wouldn't list it in that way.

I suggest getting off your high horse, I have lots of tunes on sets i bought from the mid 90s and before and I've spent all I can afford, so u should leave it at that and give up b4 u get owned even more

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Originally posted by LiquidX DUde, I've read everything you've written. I personally dont have the money to buy turntables, therefore it would be stupid to go out and buy the vynils, plus, I which I had the money to be able to spend around 15 and up on 4 remixes of a song ( the vynil ) .. sometimes its not even 4 but 1 or 2.

You don't need to buy a pair of Technics 1200's if all you wanna do is listen to a single record. A second hand table can be found for $100 or less.

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Originally posted by LiquidX Also, many of the songs, that may be included on a CD are either remixed or shorted, exept for those compilations heaving the full .. not even at all times, on the TRANCEMASTER series. But, I do not have 30 - 40 bucks to spend on one of this CD's ( WHICH ARE IMPORTS for the majority of time .. and yes, im in the USA ).

I'm in the US too, and I've had to shell out some $$$ to get some of those same Trancemaster CD's too, and they're NOT that expensive. If you can't get them cheaper, I should be able to get them for you thur my record store, so PM me.

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Originally posted by LiquidX IM not working, maybe later on, so for now, I want to enjoy trance music, and all the latests tunes, I'd love to support the artist and so on, but if you didnt know, much of the music, as we all know it, was spread through mp3 music. The internet played, and is playing a big role on dance music at least here in the United States, at least in my case.

I'm sorry, but that's BS. Trance exploded quite some time ago, and the internet had nothing to do with it (MP3 wasn't even a well known term at the time.)

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Originally posted by LiquidX And a great example is to see what happened to Cosmicman - I love you track, which was only going around the internet, but yet, was in great demand for a VYNIL release. IT was well known thanx to the internet, and many DJ's have agreed that mp3 helps. DJ's wouldnt be known for their quality ( many that heavent come to the USA were allready in demand, thanx to their LIVESETS going around the internet as well their songs, example, DJ TIESTO, MARCO V and prob all the others ).

It's nice to see artists who got exposure by letting their music circulate for free on sites like MP3.com, but remember, they CHOSE to do so.

I've said this before, I do NOT have a problem with livesets that aren't commercially available being shared. The main beef is with FULL rips of individual tracks - and I may even be more annoyed at those who HAVE a given tune that's in a mix, but they don't feel that's good enough for them, and that they must have the full rip instead. Doesn't sound like someone who's truly looking to enjoy the music, does it?

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Originally posted by LiquidX Last but not least, CD's are the cheapest source and kind to make, cheaper then making a tape, yet its expensier then a tape. Its rediculous how expensive a CD is, and I DONT HAVE THE MONEY TO BUY EVERY SINGLE CD , which may have onlye 2 - 3 songs I like, while the others are SH*T ! .. And not even what you pay for the CD goes to the artists, if im not mistaking, only 10% goes to the artist, the rest is for the record label and so on ... so man, I dont agree with your greedy thing about mp3 sharing. Ofcourse if I was mad rich, I wouldnt bother downloading, wasting time and go straight on getting the CD"s, but what if I dont like vynils ? .. so man .. its about opinions and what you like. Enjoy !

I've got plenty of CD's that I only like one or two tunes, and I don't regret buying any of them because I enjoy them so much. If you truly liked a track or two so much, then you wouldn't have a problem with shelling out a few bucks to buy them then, right? Or is that just your justification?

I will agree that the way record contracts are structured leaves a lot to be desired, but if they lose out on sales because of mp3 rips, then the artist gets a smaller amount from that 10%, don't they?

Now....I'm not saying mp3's are right or wrong here. Do you think that AVB, Tiesto and Ferry Corsten could have been big in the United States and Canada without mp3's of their sets and some of their productions?.....actually all 3 of them would be the first to tell you...without mp3's...none of them would be where they are today. Add Sander Kleinenberg to that list...

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Originally posted by torontotrance Now....I'm not saying mp3's are right or wrong here. Do you think that AVB, Tiesto and Ferry Corsten could have been big in the United States and Canada without mp3's of their sets and some of their productions?.....actually all 3 of them would be the first to tell you...without mp3's...none of them would be where they are today. Add Sander Kleinenberg to that list...

I'll pose that question to Armin and others today and post their responses.

don't bother....we already know their responses. They don't like mp3's that much but will tell you without it....they probably would not have cracked North America that fast. I've asked Sander Kleinenberg that question anyway and he said that mp3's have helped him....because without that....most ppl did not know his name.

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Originally posted by DJMaytag I'll pose that question to Armin and others today and post their responses.

actually when tiesto was asked what do u think of mp3s, he said altho there not good for the music industry, he wouldnt be where he is today without them.

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Originally posted by DJMaytag I'll pose that question to Armin and others today and post their responses.

Armin and ferry have already said they wouldn't be where they are today without MP3's, not that I completely agree with the whole argument, if you like a track, you should buy it.

Then you have deejays like Dave Clarke who have instead of slamming mp3's have embraced them and worked with them. Dave Clarke is at the forefront of technology....with his website...shoutcast mixes and the fact that he releases some of stuff on mp3's....icrunch.com I think it is. Anyway..some ppl have totally shunned the mp3's aka MIKE and LOLO but dave clarke has embraced it....interesting to see...what happens in 5 yrs.

i personally, get vinyl eventually...AFTER I'VE GIVEN IT A LISTEN ON A DLED MP3 and then once i have that vinyl i rip it to cdr so that i don't ruin the vinyl...i didn't used to always do that and my vinyl would were out, so i do that now so they stay nice...i really just want that pretty vinyl to sit in the bucket and look nice

quote:

Originally posted by DJMaytag You don't need to buy a pair of Technics 1200's if all you wanna do is listen to a single record. A second hand table can be found for $100 or less.

I dont have the money to spend on a turntable, nor the desire to own one now. Why do I have to/ or should I have to own a turntable just to listen to my favorite tunes ? ? ? ? .. atleast for now I cant have nor own. I go once in a while to record stores and listen to some records just to see whats new. Its so damm unconftable and not fun at all, unless you like DJing and so on . Im not interested on them for now . Maybe later, my point is, I dont think its right to go and buy one just to listen to your stuff . I cant afford it. Too complicated, you gotta buy the needles once in a while, plus, the records dont last forever . And you know it, and me liking my stuff, I like playing it all the time. Mp3 is the easist thing, you can record to CD-R and can listen to it anywhere.

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I'm in the US too, and I've had to shell out some $$$ to get some of those same Trancemaster CD's too, and they're NOT that expensive. If you can't get them cheaper, I should be able to get them for you thur my record store, so PM me.

Dide I mention to you I aint working ? .. my priority is saving money for college. I praise and love trance, but when it comes to spending money, Im concious with what I spend it for. One of those CD's wont give me a living in the future. And Im talking not only for me, but for probably a great percentabe here that cant buy one of this. Plus, the latests and newest tunes arent always on any CD . Some are only on 12" and I think I've talked about that allready. If I have some money to spend, Id let you know though.

quote:

I'm sorry, but that's BS. Trance exploded quite some time ago, and the internet had nothing to do with it (MP3 wasn't even a well known term at the time.)

Mmmmm Ok, trance started like 13 - 14 years ago .. but we all know that trance EXPLODED around 1998 - 1999 and on. And on that time, I remember NAPSTER and I remember there was internet . Ask me and many how did we get to know many of the trance tunes, and I personally thanx the internet and mp3, otherwise Id be stuck in my house all hyped up listening to some Ian van Dahl on the radio.

quote:

It's nice to see artists who got exposure by letting their music circulate for free on sites like MP3.com, but remember, they CHOSE to do so.

Yeah, and even so, the greedy bastards sued mp3.com because this artists werent going to the record labels instead.

quote:

I've said this before, I do NOT have a problem with livesets that aren't commercially available being shared. The main beef is with FULL rips of individual tracks - and I may even be more annoyed at those who HAVE a given tune that's in a mix, but they don't feel that's good enough for them, and that they must have the full rip instead. Doesn't sound like someone who's truly looking to enjoy the music, does it?

Well, when you really love and like a tune, you will want the full rip, sometimes impossible because they arent just released, but only available in the only one CD that somehow, got its hands on that so much loved song. That examply fits best for Jose Amnesia - The Eternal back in 1999 when it was only on that gatecrasher cd, and on PvDs muzik mix CD, and some PvD livesets.

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I've got plenty of CD's that I only like one or two tunes, and I don't regret buying any of them because I enjoy them so much. If you truly liked a track or two so much, then you wouldn't have a problem with shelling out a few bucks to buy them then, right? Or is that just your justification?

I've spend rediculous amount of money on certain CD's like Gatecrasher ones and the first Euphorias. The rest are ridiculously expensive, containing, yes some quality tunes but the others you could find easily now on the most commercialized CD's here in the US.
I dont regret buying this IMPORT CD's that I mentioned, just because they were on sale at the time, otherwise, I wouldnt have SPEND almost 50 bucks ! ( CDNOW ) . The nearest store that contains this CD's is like 1 hour far, not including traffic and so on .. and selling them for 40 .. if I include gas it would go up to .. almost 50 anyways, with tax and so on . Do the math. And I will say it again, when I can afford for them quality CD's, I will not think twice on getting them, but I will not dig and bankrup my parents for doing so, and I think many here think the same.

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I will agree that the way record contracts are structured leaves a lot to be desired, but if they lose out on sales because of mp3 rips, then the artist gets a smaller amount from that 10%, don't they?

Yeah, its a stupid game, but the thing is, we consumers, at times like now, dont have the luxury to spend that much money on something thats suppost to cost like 5 - 6 dollars . YES ! .. a CD costs like 10 cents to make ! .. at most 1 dollar.

Yeah i download a shit load of MP3 and i always try and get the newest stuff...
ASHLAND/INFUSION/DIGBY & OLIVER/HIP SERVICE/GLOAT Audiotherapy Presents: My Idea Of House ATSAMP double 12" �6.39 �19.17
FUTURESHOCK Frequency FUJU 009 12" �4.25 �4.25
KOGLIN, Mike The Silence ACA 9832-12 12" �5.10 �5.10
RANDOM FACTOR What I Need (remixes) VIS 081 12" �4.25 �4.25
HARLEM ZIP CODE Club Triad EP PAP 086 12" �3.83 �3.83
FOUR ELEMENTS, The (RUI DA SILVA) Fire (repress) RDS 10WL 12" �6.80 �6.80
CRITICAL PHASE The Phase Effect REG 71 12" �3.79 �3.79
JONH & RASKAL Drop The Beat RMR 015 12" �5.95 �5.95
RED STAR Pretender (Danny Briottet production) 10KG 019 12" �4.25 �4.25
SMOKE Random As SAV 003 12" �4.25 �4.25
TECHNO TOOLZ Techno Toolz Volume 2 (techno loops/scratches/samples EP) SHOT-T 02 12" �5.10 �5.10
BT Remember 43970 double 12" �8.51 �8.51
DR KUCHO The Chase VA 008 12" �4.25 �4.25
SOLID SESSIONS Janeiro 12TIV 175 12" �3.40 �3.40
KYBOSH Revolution BARQ 025 12" �6.39 �6.39
POLE FOLDER Enter The Rhythm BED 29 12" �4.25 �4.25
REDANKA Out Of The Dark WHO 064 12" �4.25 �4.25
GUVENEN, Yunus Delta EP SILVER 046 12" �4.25 �4.25
GABRIEL, Josh Wave 3 NEBTX 033/WAVEX 3 12" �4.25 �4.25
LUZON Manila Sunrise YR 095 double 12" �9.36 �9.36
LAYO & BUSHWACKA! Night Works XLLP 154 2xLP �8.30 �8.30
FORME Kick A Hole MAPA 015 12" �3.79 �3.79
VARIOUS mixed by DJ FLIX Taking Care Of Business (incl. Kiril, Force Mass Motion vs Dylan Rhymes, DJ Hal, PFN, etc.) 10KGLP 04 2xLP �7.45 �7.45
VARIOUS mixed by DANNY McMILLAN High Altitude Breaks Level 01 (incl. Aquasky vs Master Blaster, Uptown Connection, Precision Cuts, Dubmarines, etc.) FLIGHTLP 02 3xLP �10.21 �10.21
ILS Soul Trader MAPAVLP 03 3xLP �11.06 �11.06
VARIOUS Adam Freeland: On Tour (incl. Fluke (Adam Freeland/Ils remix). Bushwacka!, Bassbin Twins, Pressure Drop, etc.) MAPAVLP 002 4xLP �11.71 �11.71
VARIOUS 4 Vini: Forever Young LP (Botchit & Scarper) (incl. Atomic Hooligan, Rennie Pilgrem/Klaus, Dee-Kline, Backdraft, etc.) BOS2LP 015 4xLP �11.71 �11.71
CHEMICAL BROTHERS, The Come With Us

But ya know what with purchases like that????? I think im most deffinately supporting the artist not to mention i buy like 1 or 2 times a month which equals about half the money i make

east west - the love i lost

the original tune not that remix of ferry with no energy at all!
i'm glad the reconstruction is a class!

Your still a music pirate like we are then if you have 3% of your tunes on mp3 and not on vinyl or CD, now are you trying to see we are bigger pirates then you or are you just being a hipocrite?

looks like DJ Maytag is going to supply us with a never ending supply of music like the goody 2 shoes he is who's never done anything illegal in his life and god forbid can't let us get some music without paying for it

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Originally posted by Vesa It's very sad that so many people miss out great tracks just because they are old. The main reason is probably that many people in this culture are obsessed with new tracks. However, the secondary reason is that there are few information sources where to find out easily about old producers and tracks.

Oh? Have you looked? Have you visited any of these sites?

http://www.discogs.com/
http://www.harthouse.com/seiten/rel...el_19921997.htm (w/ RealAudio!)
http://www.tursa.franken.de/OliverLieb_discog.html

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Originally posted by Vesa And even if there was, there is no library where one can borrow most of those tracks.

Who said there ought to be one? I didn't know that free music was our god given right?

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Originally posted by Vesa AG used to be a kind of trance library where one could check out many tracks, even if the selection wasn't perfect even there. Now there's no trance library. RIAA committed a heinous crime against the trance community, the consequences of which will be seen only later. Reminds me about when Europeans destroyed the Indian cultures in their greed.

WHAT!?!? You can't be serious that the RIAA[/B[ is the one comitting the crime? Your sense of reality (maybe even morality) is pretty skewed if you honestly believe this...

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[b]Originally posted by Vesa No release -> no problem. The trance library I'm dreaming about will simply not have those tunes. No-one else can get them if the artist keeps them to himself.

OK, but isn't that EXACTLY what ppl here are looking for? (ie tunes that aren't gonna be released?)

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Originally posted by Vesa Even though I think that sometimes the good of trance community overweighs the good of an individual producer. At least we can't go and ask from all 1000 trance producers if we can use his tune. And even if we could, they are not the rights holders, so they couldn't give us a legal permission.

And people are calling ME arrogant?!?! Who the hell let YOU decide what's best for someone, especially when it's in regard to someone else's intellectual property?

How would you feel if someone just up and borrowed yolur car, because it was for the greater good? I don't think you'd appreciate it too much.

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Originally posted by Vesa Why wouldn't heritage of trance culture include tracks from 1999-2000? I've devoted hundreds of hours into historical research of those years, and I can assure you that I found many interesting things that completely changed my initial ideas of what had happened during those years. I will probably post articles about them on the upcoming discography site, so you can take a look, and judge by yourself.

You were talking about the history of trance and track from 1999 to 2000 being lost, so I thought maybe you weren't aware that trance was around prior to 1999, that's all.

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Originally posted by Vesa Besides, the special feature articles I intend to write will stir some interest into older tracks and overlooked trance subcultures. Even if only 1% of all trance fans will benefit, that's enough. Trance community needs a small number of very knowledgeable people, and learning materials to educate them can only be written using huge mp3 archives.

I don't think an mp3 archive is necessary to convey the message...

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Originally posted by Vesa When I myself started my trance hobby, Dancemania's site about producers and their discographies was irreplaceable. There are so many tracks out there. If one goes to a record shop, and randomly buys some of them, one completely misses the picture. One needs archives (both track archives and discographies). Of course, one can try to cope without them. Just like trying to become a writer without going to libraries or reading history of literature. Good luck.

So the analogy is that if I wanted to write a history about cars, then I ought to steal one of EVERY card ever made?

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Originally posted by Vesa Hopefully you will be around for the next 50 years, so that if some retro fan or trance historian wants to listen to those tracks, he can ring your doorbell, and borrow those CDs.

No, but he could always either ask me my perspective on how trance started, or go out and buy some retro compilations. This is based on the assumption that the music industry can survive the stealing of tunes over the internet.

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Originally posted by Vesa Seriously, I study computer science, and know something about availability of information. One needs a sufficient number of replicas, so that at least one is available when someone needs it. The number of vinyl copies is too small to fulfill the need of availability. Especially as over time, the number of vinyl copies decreases drastically (they will be worn out, or sold to persons outside the trance community at flea markets). BTW, now that you say that you bought tracks on CDs, I sincerely doubt if you understand the problem. The majority of tracks I'm talking about were never released on CD singles, or included on any CD compilations. Probably never on commercial mixes either. I'm not trying to question your expertize in trance in general, which may well be better than mine, only in this one specific question of little-known trance.

I find it hard to believe that any halfway decent track has NEVER made it onto some sort of CD compilation and/or commercial DJ mix CD. I know that at one point in time, CD comps were the primary source of many tracks, and oftentimes those wouldn't be released on vinyl.

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Originally posted by Vesa IMO everyone should have enough reason to buy his share of vinyls or CDs. Record labels also need money, and they are to thank for the availability of this great music. To everyone according to his needs is my motto. However, Rank 1 - Black Snow was re-pressed. I wonder if the demand arose because of its inclusion on ITWT 003, or because of mp3 sharing Thanks for the info (links please). I'm going to check them out. It's also beneficial to share information about good distributors and second-hand shops. However, I started mp3 downloading when distributors were fed up by me pestering them with obviously unfulfillable back orders of old tracks.

PM me and I'll get ya the phone number for my record store. BTW, distributors don't sell to the general public, only record stores, so it's no wonder that they weren't able to help you.

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Originally posted by Vesa You are hereby invited to compile discographies of trance tracks made in 1990-1996 for TDS. We don't have them yet because I haven't found any decent release listings for that time period.

See above.

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Originally posted by Vesa There are 10.000 - 20.000 released trance vinyls. "Plenty" may mean that 5.000 of them are still available if one looks hard enough. In 10 years maybe 1000 of them will be available. That is not enough for historical purposes. It distorts the conception of what trance was like because the most underground releases will be ignored. But that is not the essence of the problem. The problem is that the vinyls are not available in one place. No-one can afford to buy them all. But he still needs access to them all if he's serious about being knowledgeable enough. I admit it may be morally wrong to compile a centralized mp3 collection, and it's certainly legally wrong. But I don't care. My love of trance music and of its cultural value overweighs legality and morality. However, in other forms of art this is understood, and accepted legally. There are libraries for a literature student. Students of arts can go to museums.

Don't museums generally charge admission? Maybe if a "Trance Museum" is established, there should be a subscription charge in place? I wouldn't be opposed to that if that was in place.

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Originally posted by Vesa I have MANY more important points to make, but this post is already much longer than reasonable, so I'll write them some other time. Anyway, flexibility, availability and realism are the keys why mp3 sharing is absolutely necessary. Besides, people collect mp3s partly because human beings have an innate instinct for collecting things. Do you think evolution developed this instinct for no reason? Collectors of mp3s are instinctively doing the right thing, and those who oppose it will notice their mistake only when a drought strikes.

But like I said before, whatever justification it takes to make you sleep at night...

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Posted by DJMaytag on Jan-02-2003 21:23:

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Originally posted by LiquidX Maybe later, my point is, I dont think its right to go and buy one just to listen to your stuff . I cant afford it. Too complicated, you gotta buy the needles once in a while, plus, the records dont last forever . And you know it, and me liking my stuff, I like playing it all the time. Mp3 is the easist thing, you can record to CD-R and can listen to it anywhere.

I don't have the money to buy a car right now, so how about I come and steal your car, cuz ya know there's all that maintenence you have to do on 'em, so it's just easier to just steal one, then get another later, and another...

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Originally posted by LiquidX Dide I mention to you I aint working ? .. my priority is saving money for college. I praise and love trance, but when it comes to spending money, Im concious with what I spend it for.

Well, life ain't fair and we have to make choices sometimes.

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Originally posted by LiquidX Mmmmm Ok, trance started like 13 - 14 years ago .. but we all know that trance EXPLODED around 1998 - 1999

It actually exploded back around 1993 first.

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Originally posted by LiquidX Yeah, and even so, the greedy bastards sued mp3.com because this artists werent going to the record labels instead.

No, the RIAA sued MP3.com over their "MyMP3.com" service, which allowed you to stream commercially available music to any computer you logged into via an account where you PROVED YOU OWNED THE RIGHTS to the music by verfiying what you could accees by inserting a CD into your computer. You could NOT access anything else you didn't prove you had already purchased. Artists bypassing record lables had NOTHING to do with the lawsuit.

I can understand both sides cases on that issue.

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Originally posted by LiquidX Well, when you really love and like a tune, you will want the full rip, sometimes impossible because they arent just released, but only available in the only one CD that somehow, got its hands on that so much loved song. That examply fits best for Jose Amnesia - The Eternal back in 1999 when it was only on that gatecrasher cd, and on PvDs muzik mix CD, and some PvD livesets.

No, not really. I can just wait until it's released on vinyl. If it's not, oh well... there'll be other tunes for me to spin!

quote:

Originally posted by LiquidX I've spend rediculous amount of money on certain CD's like Gatecrasher ones and the first Euphorias. The rest are ridiculously expensive, containing, yes some quality tunes but the others you could find easily now on the most commercialized CD's here in the US. I dont regret buying this IMPORT CD's that I mentioned, just because they were on sale at the time, otherwise, I wouldnt have SPEND almost 50 bucks ! ( CDNOW ) . The nearest store that contains this CD's is like 1 hour far, not including traffic and so on .. and selling them for 40 .. if I include gas it would go up to .. almost 50 anyways, with tax and so on . Do the math. And I will say it again, when I can afford for them quality CD's, I will not think twice on getting them, but I will not dig and bankrup my parents for doing so, and I think many here think the same.

Well, it sounds like you're either exaggerating or getting screwed, one of the two. Most of the Trancemaster comps only cost me $19.99+tax at my local shop (the one I now work at.)

quote:

Originally posted by LiquidX Yeah, its a stupid game, but the thing is, we consumers, at times like now, dont have the luxury to spend that much money on something thats suppost to cost like 5 - 6 dollars . YES ! .. a CD costs like 10 cents to make ! .. at most 1 dollar.

Well, did ya know that a gallon gasoline only costs a company something like 3 cents to produce? So why don't you also go out and steal some gas while you're at it? It only costs pennies to make a burger at a fast food joint, so why don't ya try to talk them down the next time you're at McDonalds.

Or better yet, once ya get out of school and have a nice degree, why don't ya work for minimum wage because someone doesn't feel your labor is worth it? How about starting up a company and selling your products for a nickel over their production costs? Lets see how'd you feel about that?

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Posted by DJMaytag on Jan-02-2003 21:28:

quote:

Originally posted by trance_n_dance Your still a music pirate like we are then if you have 3% of your tunes on mp3 and not on vinyl or CD, now are you trying to see we are bigger pirates then you or are you just being a hipocrite?

Good point. Since they're all from 3+ years ago, it's probably best to delete them now since I haven't listened to them in years.

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Posted by fr0st on Jan-02-2003 21:44:

Ya know what mr maytag this thread is titled "what song are you desperate to get a full rip?" Not mr Maytags debate on mp3 sharing if you want start your own thread.

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Posted by ck1121 on Jan-02-2003 22:52:

quote:

Originally posted by fr0st Ya know what mr maytag this thread is titled "what song are you desperate to get a full rip?" Not mr Maytags debate on mp3 sharing if you want start your own thread.

I agree with you on this... there's no point in really continuing this arguement anyway because there's no such thing as "winning". Our beliefs and opinions aren't going to be changed and I'm sure neither are mr. Maytags...

It sure is nice of him to offer to sell us some vinyls from HIS store though

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Posted by UWM on Jan-02-2003 23:19:

This is getting fucking ridiculous. Comparing stealing cars and downloading mp3s? FFS.

So I spend my hard-earned money on school and rent and food. Apparently I should not be afforded the right to listen to trance music (or any music for that matter) because I cannot afford to support the artists. I can only afford Ramen and Mac N' Cheese, and sometimes when I'm lucky, I can eat an extra value meal at McDonalds or order a pizza. When I can afford it, I make trips to see DJs throughout the midwest. My priorities are obviously quite out of line. I'm a criminal.

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Posted by DJ-Ande on Jan-02-2003 23:24:

if any1 mentioned 'state one - for ever and a day'

State One - Forever And A Day (Vox On).mp3
State One - Forever And A Day (Vox Off).mp3


available on emc now

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Posted by Ian on Jan-02-2003 23:33:

quote:

Originally posted by DJMaytag Good point. Since they're all from 3+ years ago, it's probably best to delete them now since I haven't listened to them in years.

I never realised how much a person could suck, you make it sound like we should all be locked up for it, if downloading music is a crime, so is being charged ott for cds and tapes and everything, works both ways, they make them cheaper, we get to buy more

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