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-- Honest Reporting
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quote:

Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 no, i think mike is calling you an idiot because instead of just ignoring the other two, you continue to bicker with them.

look,i really dont care about thoes 2,im just saying that i dont want my name in his sig,and i dont want him to slander me in TA like this

quote:

Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 no, i think mike is calling you an idiot because instead of just ignoring the other two, you continue to bicker with them.

look,i really dont care about thoes 2,im just saying that i dont want my name in his sig,and i dont want him to slander me in TA like this

quote:

Originally posted by Viber look,i really dont care about thoes 2,im just saying that i dont want my name in his sig,and i dont want him to slander me in TA like this

will you stop the crying ffs?your name is already slandered on TA,even if Cyrus didnt have ur name under his sig!!

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer will you stop the crying ffs?your name is already slandered on TA,even if Cyrus didnt have ur name under his sig!!

why do you have to butt in? the way I (and everyone else see it) is that this situation is between viber and cyrus. who inited you to put your opinion in? look, all i'm saying is that it's useless to bark at viber because he made a complaint. just let him be.

------------ ATTENTION ATTENTION -----------------

Uh rainbow magazine just declared that this thread ranked 3rd gayest in the world and congradualtes all of u flity guys for making this dream come true.......

hardcore needs to pull the cock out of his ass and shove it in his mouth

quote:

Originally posted by Galapidate hardcore needs to pull the cock out of his ass and shove it in his mouth

sounds...sexy.

@Drug_Tito

there was a thread about this a while back, but i don't remember whether the law actually got passed or not.

quote:

Originally posted by Galapidate hardcore needs to pull the cock out of his ass and shove it in his mouth

Are you talking from your own personal experience?seems like you've done it before!!!

quote:

A Failed Israeli Society Collapses While Its Leaders Remain Silent By AVRAHAM BURG The Zionist revolution has always rested on two pillars: a just path and an ethical leadership. Neither of these is operative any longer. The Israeli nation today rests on a scaffolding of corruption, and on foundations of oppression and injustice. As such, the end of the Zionist enterprise is already on our doorstep. There is a real chance that ours will be the last Zionist generation. There may yet be a Jewish state here, but it will be a different sort, strange and ugly. There is time to change course, but not much. What is needed is a new vision of a just society and the political will to implement it. Nor is this merely an internal Israeli affair. Diaspora Jews for whom Israel is a central pillar of their identity must pay heed and speak out. If the pillar collapses, the upper floors will come crashing down. The opposition does not exist, and the coalition, with Arik Sharon at its head, claims the right to remain silent. In a nation of chatterboxes, everyone has suddenly fallen dumb, because there's nothing left to say. We live in a thunderously failed reality. Yes, we have revived the Hebrew language, created a marvelous theater and a strong national currency. Our Jewish minds are as sharp as ever. We are traded on the Nasdaq. But is this why we created a state? The Jewish people did not survive for two millennia in order to pioneer new weaponry, computer security programs or anti-missile missiles. We were supposed to be a light unto the nations. In this we have failed. It turns out that the 2,000-year struggle for Jewish survival comes down to a state of settlements, run by an amoral clique of corrupt lawbreakers who are deaf both to their citizens and to their enemies. A state lacking justice cannot survive. More and more Israelis are coming to understand this as they ask their children where they expect to live in 25 years. Children who are honest admit, to their parents' shock, that they do not know. The countdown to the end of Israeli society has begun. It is very comfortable to be a Zionist in West Bank settlements such as Beit El and Ofra. The biblical landscape is charming. From the window you can gaze through the geraniums and bougainvilleas and not see the occupation. Traveling on the fast highway �hat takes you from Ramot on Jerusalem's northern edge to Gilo on the southern edge, a 12-minute trip that skirts barely a half-mile west of the Palestinian roadblocks, it's hard to comprehend the humiliating experience of the despised Arab who must creep for hours along the pocked, blockaded roads assigned to him. One road for the occupier, one road for the occupied. This cannot work. Even if the Arabs lower their heads and swallow their shame and anger forever, it won't work. A structure built on human callousness will inevitably collapse in on itself. Note this moment well: Zionism's superstructure is already collapsing like a cheap Jerusalem wedding hall. Only madmen continue dancing on the top floor while the pillars below are collapsing. We have grown accustomed to ignoring the suffering of the women at the roadblocks. No wonder we don't hear the cries of the abused woman living next door or the single mother struggling to support her children in dignity. We don't even bother to count the women murdered by their husbands. Israel, having ceased to care about the children of the Palestinians, should not be surprised when they come washed in hatred and blow themselves up in the centers of Israeli escapism. They consign themselves to Allah in our places of recreation, because their own lives are torture. They spill their own blood in our restaurants in order to ruin our appetites, because they have children and parents at home who are hungry and humiliated. We could kill a thousand ringleaders and engineers a day and nothing will be solved, because the leaders come up from below � from the wells of hatred and anger, from the "infrastructures" of injustice and moral corruption. If all this were inevitable, divinely ordained and immutable, I would be silent. But things could be different, and so crying out is a moral imperative. Here is what the prime minister should say to the people: The time for illusions is over. The time for decisions has arrived. We love the entire land of our forefathers and in some other time we would have wanted to live here alone. But that will not happen. The Arabs, too, have dreams and needs. Between the Jordan and the Mediterranean there is no longer a clear Jewish majority. And so, fellow citizens, it is not possible to keep the whole thing without paying a price. We cannot keep a Palestinian majority under an Israeli boot and at the same time think ourselves the only democracy in the Middle East. There cannot be democracy without equal rights for all who live here, Arab as well as Jew. We cannot keep the territories and preserve a Jewish majority in the world's only Jewish state � not by means that are humane and moral and Jewish. Do you want the greater Land of Israel? No problem. Abandon democracy. Let's institute an efficient system of racial separation here, with prison camps and detention villages. Qalqilya Ghetto and Gulag Jenin. Do you want a Jewish majority? No problem. Either put the Arabs on railway cars, buses, camels and donkeys and expel them en masse � or separate ourselves from them absolutely, without tricks and gimmicks. There is no middle path. We must remove all the settlements � all of them � and draw an internationally recognized border between the Jewish national home and the Palestinian national home. The Jewish Law of Return will apply only within our national home, and their right of return will apply only within the borders of the Palestinian state. Do you want democracy? No problem. Either abandon the greater Land of Israel, to the last settlement and outpost, or give full citizenship and voting rights to everyone, including Arabs. The result, of course, will be that those who did not want a Palestinian state alongside us will have one in our midst, via the ballot box. That's what the prime minister should say to the people. He should present the choices forthrightly: Jewish racialism or democracy. Settlements or hope for both peoples. False visions of barbed wire, roadblocks and suicide bombers, or a recognized international border between two states and a shared capital in Jerusalem. But there is no prime minister in Jerusalem. The disease eating away at the body of Zionism has already attacked the head. David Ben-Gurion sometimes erred, but he remained straight as an arrow. When Menachem Begin was wrong, nobody impugned his motives. No longer. Polls published last weekend showed that a majority of Israelis do not believe in the personal integrity of the prime minister � yet they trust his political leadership. In other words, Israel's current prime minister personally embodies both halves of the curse: suspect personal morals and open disregard for the law � combined with the brutality of occupation and the trampling of any chance for peace. This is our nation, these its leaders. The inescapable conclusion is that the Zionist revolution is dead. Why, then, is the opposition so quiet? Perhaps because it's summer, or because they are tired, or because some would like to join the government at any price, even the price of participating in the sickness. But while they dither, the forces of good lose hope. This is the time for clear alternatives. Anyone who declines to present a clear-cut position � black or white � is in effect collaborating in the decline. It is not a matter of Labor versus Likud or right versus left, but of right versus wrong, acceptable versus unacceptable. The law-abiding versus the lawbreakers. What's needed is not a political replacement for the Sharon government but a vision of hope, an alternative to the destruction of Zionism and its values by the deaf, dumb and callous. Israel's friends abroad � Jewish and non-Jewish alike, presidents and prime ministers, rabbis and lay people � should choose as well. They must reach out and help Israel to navigate the road map toward our national destiny as a light unto the nations and a society of peace, justice and equality. Translated by J.J. Goldberg. Avraham Burg was speaker of Israel's Knesset from 1999 to 2003 and is a former chairman of the Jewish Agency for Israel. He is currently a Labor Party Knesset member. This essay is adapted by the author from an article that appeared in Yediot Aharonot.

http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.08.29/oped3.html

hahah

from my unbias education about israel today I'd say that Israel is in a dilly of a pickle.

Originally, Israel was to be created as a jewish state, where Jews could go free from persecution. The problem is what is a jewish state? Its a state for jews run by jews. What is a jew? A jew is someone part of a nationality and a religion. The problem I see today is that apparently over half the population doesn't care about the ancient customs.

I heard about a guy named Feisel Hussien that died last year think? And he said that today the jews are weak because they have abandonded their laws and customs with G-d. So in the eyes of their neighbours, the jews are cope-outs to their own religion. And if they are becoming 'little america' or the 'little devil' it is because they are destroying their uniqueness, in favour of the taste of democracy and american values and standards.

Israel as 'little america' is zionism. Israel as a JEWISH state is different.

Personally, I think Israel is going down, because it has no credibility as a little america. Its right to being a state is that its a place for the jews to live like jews, but as we can see from Fiel Hussien, and the Israeli's neighbours, the jews are being americans! and not jews!! hence, the situation today.


This may be a little deeper then the headlines you guys read, and I am not 100% on all subjects because I am not G-d, so therefore some factors are not being included..

but i'm sure the cynics here will be more then happy to rip anything apart, due their to cynical nature

the fall of america will be those very same cynics...

quote me.

Come on, the most positive thing about Israel is the very thing you don't like. The only reason why I have any sympathy for Israel is because it is a democratic secular nation in the middle of religiously fanatical countries.

ok

quote:

the most positive thing about Israel is the very thing you don't like. The only reason why I have any sympathy for Israel is because it is a democratic secular nation in the middle of religiously fanatical countries.

im going to have to call you on that.

what makes that the most positive thing?

History shows how the Jewish people have contributed so much to society, not to mention today a lot of new potential cures and technologies are created in Israel.

nokia, altec lansing, some biotech drugs and lots of other stuff i dunno really...

Israel is good because it is a place where the oldest monotheistic religion can once again grow its roots, and show the world what the 'jews can do with their own land' unfortunetly the jews are taking on the american culture which has its good and bads, but at the same time, abandoning their own culture. Like a lot of the native americans have done, and the asian cultures as they assimilate into globalization.

The future will be a place where everyone will be pressured to rid themselves of their 'uniqueness' and identites, only because those things create animosity and problems between cultures. If the whole world was american, we would have economic stability, and the only problem would be what we make for ourselves.

personally I think that world is the end of civilization, as we can see from modernized countries, like america, and some of the eastern european countries, statistically, (also japan!) there are HUGE suicide rates... people have money and the so called 'freedom' but they are losing the will to live. What is there to live for anymore? material pursuit?? LOL ROFL

Re: hahah

quote:

Originally posted by DJBARON from my unbias education about israel today I'd say that Israel is in a dilly of a pickle.

First off...everthing has some form of biast influence...and exactly what "education" do you have???? You talk as if you are Koffi Annan.

quote:

Originally, Israel was to be created as a jewish state, where Jews could go free from persecution. The problem is what is a jewish state? Its a state for jews run by jews. What is a jew? A jew is someone part of a nationality and a religion. The problem I see today is that apparently over half the population doesn't care about the ancient customs.

BECUASE THESE ARENT THE ANCIENT TIMES!!!!

quote:

I heard about a guy named Feisel Hussien that died last year think? And he said that today the jews are weak because they have abandonded their laws and customs with G-d. So in the eyes of their neighbours, the jews are cope-outs to their own religion. And if they are becoming 'little america' or the 'little devil' it is because they are destroying their uniqueness, in favour of the taste of democracy and american values and standards.

Democracy is what is keeping Israel strong. IT is Israels democratic nature that has helped the US have good relations with it. What is this "uniqueness"....you spew out these words without explaining yourself.....

quote:

Israel as 'little america' is zionism. Israel as a JEWISH state is different. Personally, I think Israel is going down, because it has no credibility as a little america. Its right to being a state is that its a place for the jews to live like jews, but as we can see from Fiel Hussien, and the Israeli's neighbours, the jews are being americans! and not jews!! hence, the situation today.

Again you go on try explaining something without really explaining anything. To me, you have a thwarted view of what an American and a JEW SHOULD be....

quote:

This may be a little deeper then the headlines you guys read, and I am not 100% on all subjects because I am not G-d, so therefore some factors are not being included.. but i'm sure the cynics here will be more then happy to rip anything apart, due their to cynical nature the fall of america will be those very same cynics... quote me.

oh... ive quoted your ignorance on many times...you know....for some reason i think you are doin this on purpose... making yourself look so utterly stupid for attention on the net....

But if you are serious about your views... GOD help you!

About DJBARON's earlier post...

If Israel wants to be recognized as a JEWISH state and not a "Little America" then it had better stop kissing America's ass. It's plain and simple. The Israelis are doing everything that pisses the Arabs off. And then they ask why the Arabs hate them. For the majority of Arabs, it's not because the population of Israel is jewish, it's because Israel is America's yes-man.

Re: ok

quote:

Originally posted by DJBARON im going to have to call you on that. what makes that the most positive thing? History shows how the Jewish people have contributed so much to society, not to mention today a lot of new potential cures and technologies are created in Israel. nokia, altec lansing, some biotech drugs and lots of other stuff i dunno really...

Nokia? Last time I herad they were from Finland.

quote:

Israel is good because it is a place where the oldest monotheistic religion can once again grow its roots, and show the world what the 'jews can do with their own land' unfortunetly the jews are taking on the american culture which has its good and bads, but at the same time, abandoning their own culture. Like a lot of the native americans have done, and the asian cultures as they assimilate into globalization.

No, Israel is good because it is the only normal country in the region. If Israel were what you want it to be, the only difference between Israel and say Lebanon would be the religion. I agree you've made a lot out of the land you settled only 50 years ago, but that's the product of liberal economy combined with the US foreign aid, not the product of your religion. If you take a look at theocracies, you'll see that none of them got very far.

quote:

The future will be a place where everyone will be pressured to rid themselves of their 'uniqueness' and identites, only because those things create animosity and problems between cultures. If the whole world was american, we would have economic stability, and the only problem would be what we make for ourselves.

I agree with you on the point that the world shouldn't blindly copy americans in every aspect, but it should stick to what works. Old customs are often incompatible with the modern way of life. You can't have both, you can only choose whether you want to be a modern nation or a nation stuck in the past.

quote:

personally I think that world is the end of civilization, as we can see from modernized countries, like america, and some of the eastern european countries, statistically, (also japan!) there are HUGE suicide rates... people have money and the so called 'freedom' but they are losing the will to live. What is there to live for anymore? material pursuit?? LOL ROFL

I think a minor increase in suicide rates is a tolerable loss in comparison with what we've historically gained through technological development.

this is a BS thread in my opinion....

honest reporting

no one seems to mention the huge difference in the death tolls since the beginning of the Intifada.....so many Palestinian children have died with bullets right through their heads

its all about rejectionism and accomodation.....go read the fateful triangle by Chomsky

this thread is not about differences in deaths. It is about honest reporting.

Or is your emotional side so mixed with your intellect you cannot realize that?

LOL!! anyone that posts chomsky is obviously bias and full of shit!

Chomsky is a well known self-hating jew!!!!

quote:

About DJBARON's earlier post... If Israel wants to be recognized as a JEWISH state and not a "Little America" then it had better stop kissing America's ass. It's plain and simple. The Israelis are doing everything that pisses the Arabs off. And then they ask why the Arabs hate them. For the majority of Arabs, it's not because the population of Israel is jewish, it's because Israel is America's yes-man..

from what I see about Israel today, I agree. But I doubt any soverign country truly desires to be another countries yes man. The problem is that Israel has its hands tied down. On one hand Israel is [as seen on this board] hated and seen to be the aggressor, (leaving aside opinion) and Israel in that light is getting severly punished, economically, politically, and in every other aspect. Israel has really only one truly trustable ally in the end of the road, America. And Israel with its dire economical situation right now cannot afford to lose American support. America knows this, and uses it to control Israel and keep American policy flowing strongly.

So, to sum it up, Israel would need to do what it feels is best, no matter what others would say, and that would entail more flame from the world community, because Israel would probobly like to have secure borders from terrorism, and would do what is necessary to make that happen. (funny thing is that I know how humanely Israels record is, anyone who argues, then by the same account america or any other western state is just as bad. Every country has made its mistakes, yet why do we criticize israel so much? remember the accidental american bombing of a wedding in Afganistan? Had that of been Israel, what would the world of said? come on people, be honest.)

quote:

Nokia? Last time I herad they were from Finland.

you are correct. But nokia has had a lot of its research done in Israel in the last few years.

If you go to altec lansing website, (which i have not checked in years I will add) they have research center located in Israel.

since the intifada started, any of this could have changed, since Israel has become a warzone, and target for international critcism.

quote:

no one seems to mention the huge difference in the death tolls since the beginning of the Intifada.....so many Palestinian children have died with bullets right through their heads

palestinian children are brainwashed to attack soldiers. Opinion once again aside, palestinian children have been directly involved in all aspects of the propaganda in Judea and Samaria. check the international human rights group www.opsick.com for more information.

Also on similar issues, you can check www.freemiddleeast.com for amazing and mostly new information on a lot of middle east issues.

quote:

No, Israel is good because it is the only normal country in the region. If Israel were what you want it to be, the only difference between Israel and say Lebanon would be the religion. I agree you've made a lot out of the land you settled only 50 years ago, but that's the product of liberal economy combined with the US foreign aid, not the product of your religion. If you take a look at theocracies, you'll see that none of them got very far.

by normal, you mean democratic. You say the way I want it to be, how do you know what I want? how do you know I really have an idea of how a country should be? If I did, I would be in politics.
And about Israel if it was a true Jewish country, before you judge and decide what it would be, first research the religion, and the nation historically when it was run by Jewish Law.

and if the way a state is run is a sign of the religion, then just by looking at the middle east, we see that certain muslim sects are extremely dangerous and hazardous to local populations. Not to create stimulation for haters, but muslim countries are not faring well in any aspect besides religious observance.

[/QUOTE] you've made a lot out of the land you settled [/QUOTE]

I didn't settle anything. I am not from Israel. I never lived there!

I actually grew up far from Israel....

quote:

Originally posted by Abbas this is a BS thread in my opinion.... honest reporting no one seems to mention the huge difference in the death tolls since the beginning of the Intifada.....so many Palestinian children have died with bullets right through their heads its all about rejectionism and accomodation.....go read the fateful triangle by Chomsky

it sounds to me like you are upset about the children being killed?

Do you wish to help get involved in the struggle to stop children from being used as political tools??

Because ultimately, complaining will get nowhere, I think you should get involved in stopping further palestinian children death.

there are many organizations that target the ones who brainwash the children to go out and fight on the streets, they are always looking for bright and talented people to help stop the needless death of children.

quote:

Originally posted by DJBARON by normal, you mean democratic. You say the way I want it to be, how do you know what I want? how do you know I really have an idea of how a country should be? If I did, I would be in politics. And about Israel if it was a true Jewish country, before you judge and decide what it would be, first research the religion, and the nation historically when it was run by Jewish Law. and if the way a state is run is a sign of the religion, then just by looking at the middle east, we see that certain muslim sects are extremely dangerous and hazardous to local populations. Not to create stimulation for haters, but muslim countries are not faring well in any aspect besides religious observance.

From your posts I see you want to make Israel a country only for people of jewish religion and descent, therefore you want a racist theocracy.

quote:

I didn't settle anything. I am not from Israel. I never lived there! I actually grew up far from Israel....

I didn't mean you personally . I meant it as "you jews".

hmm

quote:

From your posts I see you want to make Israel a country only for people of jewish religion and descent, therefore you want a racist theocracy.

I don't see how you get that from my posts!

LOL totally not what I think in reality

if you want to know, I'll talk to you about it in pm's...

real talks here always end up having people mis-understand everything...

so if you want to get a serious discussion about it pm me

SPURIOUS STATEMENTS

Journalists covering the Israeli-Palestinian conflict aim to provide readers with a balanced picture by quoting official statements from both sides.

But with Palestinian spokesmen issuing increasingly disingenuous and mendacious statements, HonestReporting asks: Do all official statements merit uncritical coverage? When spokespeople utter statements that directly contradict established facts, hasn't a news outlet that amplifies such statements stopped reporting "balanced" news, and crossed the line into disseminating lies and propaganda?

A recent case in point: After the IDF killed Hamas leader Ismail Abu Shanab on Thursday (Aug. 21), a Hamas spokesman announced to reporters: "The Zionist enemy has assassinated the truce," so therefore "we consider ourselves no longer bound by this cease-fire."

It truly stretches the mind to imagine how last Tuesday's horrific bus bombing in Jerusalem � perpetrated by a Hamas terrorist � fits any definition of an ongoing cease-fire.

Even before the Jerusalem bus bombing, there was no shortage of bloody terror from Hamas, which claimed responsibility for the suicide bombing in Ariel two weeks ago. Additionally, the IDF has reported no less than 300 terror attacks throughout Gaza, the West Bank, and Israel proper since the beginning of the supposed "cease-fire." A telling graphic, illustrating these attacks by daily occurrence, is available on the IDF website.

One TV reporter, Michael Holmes from CNN, did provide due comment on Hamas' spurious claim on Thursday: "Hamas called CNN's Gaza office and said that the cease-fire was over...if you were near West Jerusalem the other night, you would wonder what sort of cease-fire was it in the first place anyway."

Yet many other media outlets felt compelled to report the Hamas spokesman's statement as fact:

-- The Chicago Tribune headlined its Aug. 22 report: "Hamas Abandons Truce After Israel Kills Leader."

Comments to Chicago Tribune: [email protected][/email]

-- The LA Times headlined: "Truce Ended After Israeli Airstrike"

Comments to LA Times: [email protected]

-- The (London) Independent stated: "Palestinian militant groups suspended their two-month-old ceasefire last night after Israel assassinated a Hamas leader in Gaza and sent tanks and infantry back into West Bank cities."

Comments to Independent: [email][email protected]

By disseminating the Hamas statement while omitting contradictory facts, news outlets provide a mouthpiece for terrorists to brazenly deny their murderous acts, and falsely frame Israel as the "anti-peace" force in the conflict.

What do you think about this mike?

quote:

Jewish peace winner attacks Israel Monday 01 September 2003, 23:34 Makka Time, 20:34 GMT Jewish historian Reuven Moskovitz, who was awarded a prestigious peace prize, fired a broadside at Israel during his acceptance speech. The outspoken award winner used the glittering occasion to launch an attack on Israel's policies which have caused misery for millions of Palestinians. And he called on Europe to exert pressure on Ariel Sharon to stop the persecution of Palestinians. "All Israel's governing politicians have transformed the lives of the Palestinian people into an intolerable hell with their sanctions and expulsions," he said at Monday�s award ceremony. Germany's Aachen Peace Prize was also won by Palestinian-born activist Nabila Espanioly, but it was Moskovitz who stole the show. Moskovitz, 75, said the acts of violence by young Palestinians and fanatics could not be justified, but he said they were often a result of hopelessness and indignation. Originally from Jerusalem, Moskovitz called on Europe to put pressure on Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. Providing hope The 2000 euro ($2190) award was given to the two for providing "hope on the path to conciliation and peace between Jews and Palestinians", according to the Aachen Peace Prize Association chairman, Gerhard Diefenbach. Espanioly, a native of Nazareth who holds an Israeli passport, was cited for her 25-year fight for the rights of Palestinian women and children living in Israel. Also honoured for its work was a German group called Religious for Peace, which first came together around 20 years ago to protest at the deployment here of Pershing nuclear missiles but also campaigns against social injustice. The Aachen Peace Prize was founded in 1988. Last year's winners were German teacher Bernhard Nolz and US congresswoman Barbara Lee.

http://english.aljazeera.net/Articl...peace+prize.htm

If you know anything about this man you wouldn't be surprised at these comments.

He is a hardcore leftist... HARDCORE!

We all know that no leftist in the world likes military intervention in any conflict.

Maybe he'd support an Israeli initiated terror group to take the attention of the war on terror (which makes the Arab-'Palestinians' look like the underdog) off Israel.

He is living in an anti-Semitic society, and has been sucked into being a self-hating Jew. There have been many studies that show that some holocaust survivors have been traumatized so roughly that they do anything to disaffiliate themselves from a Jewish identity; assimilation.

The organization that awarded him this "peace" prize is very suspicious in itself. Its bias anti-Israel nature is plastered throughout their website.

So to answer your question Cyrus, I think Noam Chomsky will be the next to be awarded this "prestigious" prize.

EDITORS CONSIDER THE "T-WORD"


For the past three years, HonestReporting has led the campaign to demand that news agencies refer to Palestinian terrorists as "terrorists," and cease using euphemisms like "militants" and "activists."

Amidst growing pressure from media monitors, newspaper editors are finally addressing this matter head-on.

Last week, editors at two of Florida's largest newspapers � Manning Pynn of the Orlando Sentinel and Philip Gailey of the St. Petersburg Times � each boldly tackled the question: Why does my own news department refer to al Qaeda as "terrorists," and Hamas or Islamic Jihad as "militants," if all three of these organizations use mass murder of civilians to further their ideological goals (a paraphrase of the US State Department definition of terrorism; all three organizations appear on the State Department's official list of terrorist groups)?

The two editors asked the same question, but reached startlingly different conclusions:

1) St. Petersburg Times' Philip Gailey:

� Defining terrorism: "For me, it's not a hard call. Acts of terror are committed by terrorists, and the horrific bus attack on Israeli civilians, like the dozens of suicide bombings that preceded it, was an act of cold, indiscriminate terror... I don't think militants set out to deliberately kill children."

� Remaining balanced: "I'm all for fair and balanced reporting...but I also believe that words do matter. And if the word 'terrorism' is to have any real meaning, then blowing up a bus crowded with women and children must be condemned for what it is � an act of terrorism."

� Effect on coverage: As noted on the website of Florida media monitors PRIMER, The St. Petersburg Times has not only followed Gailey's lead and begun using the term "terrorists" to describe Hamas and Islamic Jihad, but is even changing the language of incoming Associated Press and New York Times wire reports to meet their new editorial commitment to call terror by its name.

Comments to: [email protected][/email]

* * *

2) Orlando Sentinel's Manning Pynn:

� Defining terrorism: The term "terrorist," claims Pynn, only applies to al Qaeda, since the term "imputes to the person or organization being described the motive of trying to instill fear." Moreover, Americans were "so shocked" by 9/11 that they "almost universally applied the term 'terrorism' to what had happened."

Pynn suggests, absurdly, that Hamas and Co. aren't trying to "instill fear" when they blow up civilian buses and restaurants. And the general degree of human shock, Pynn submits, is much lower when the innocent civilian victims happen to be Israeli � or Americans in Israel, for that matter.

Pynn then makes the basic error of equating the Palestinians' intentional targeting of civilians with the collateral damage of Israeli strikes against terrorists. Says Pynn, sarcastically: "By that standard, of course, any nation at war could be labeled 'terrorist' when attacks take civilian lives."

� Remaining balanced: Pynn recalls that "the United States was not at war when it was attacked on 9/11; Israel and the Palestinians have been engaged in armed conflict for decades," and moreover, Palestinians are "resisting occupation." The use of the word "terror" in the context of Israel would therefore be "judgmental" and jeopardize "impartial news reporting" of an ongoing conflict.

The logical counter-argument is articulated by Dr. Bruce Epstein of Florida: By substituting the word "militant" for "terrorist," a newspaper is no less "judgmental" � painting suicide bombers of packed restaurants and buses as legal, legitimate and even moral.

Pynn also fails to recognize that even in the context of war, deliberate violence against unarmed and non-threatening civilians is illegal under international law, which treats terrorism as a separate, wholly immoral use of force. The Sentinel itself recognizes this when covering the ongoing Iraq war and the U.S. occupation of Iraq � on August 30, the Sentinel referred to the car bombing of an Iraqi mosque as the probable work of the al Qaeda "terrorist network." Why, according to Pynn's logic, did al Qaeda not suddenly become a "militant organization" when the US declared war on Bin Laden and occupied Iraq?

� Effect on Coverage: The double standard at the Sentinel persists � but it now bears the stamp of approval of the paper's Public Editor.

Comments to: [email][email protected]



--- ON A LIGHTER NOTE ---

Meanwhile, in correspondence with HonestReporting, Joanna Mills, editor of BBC World Update, wrote: "It is the style of the BBC World Service to call no one a terrorist, aware as we are that one man's terrorist is another one's freedom fighter."

Yet BBC has finally found an act in the Mideast so heinous that it deserves being termed "terrorism." After a massive lizard roamed Beirut suburbs for weeks, eluding efforts to capture it, BBC ran the headline:

"Giant Lizard Terrorizes Beirut"

just as an outside observer: i dont understand why does some people mix milk,beef and cream in this thread,i mean this thread is about honest reporting which support the truth,what is so wrong with that?
anyway lets say cyrus,why do you bring stories about these stupid israelies that werent even smart enough to be in the israeli parlament?! i think it will be better to just open a diffrent thread for stuff that dont belong to this one

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