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-- Religious debate on Jews/Passion of the Christ
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Originally posted by DigiNut Oh, okay. Well in that case I hope I've explained it reasonably adequately - otherwise I think you'd have to look at a physics textbook. That is the very same dual-slit experiment I was talking about with the diffraction patterns. P1' and P2' are the squares of the same wavefunction you would theoretically get in the bounded-box problem, and P12' is simply their sum. If you fired only one electron, you have no way of knowing where it would end up on the projection. But when you fire billions of them, they form that diffraction pattern, which is exactly what statistics would predict from a probability distribution function. I don't blame anyone for not completely understanding the principles behind this - there are generally several pages devoted to this in quantum physics books. I'm just trying to explain how these theories are known and testable and don't really bear any significant resemblance to theological ones. Interesting link with the soccer ball, I never saw that before. I'm not entirely sure I understand what their basis is for that model of the universe, and I'm not convinced that it's become mainstream theory, but... I'll have to read some more on it when there's time.

Yeah as I said, I'll read it in german, the language barrier makes you explanations a little complicated

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Translation: I don't have any evidence whatsoever to back up what I'm saying, so I'll just dodge the question (yet again) by refusing to answer. Nobody else has an issue with backing up their arguments with evidence or examples, why it it such a problem for you to do the same? But hey, who needs evidence after all. Evidence never got anyone anywhere!

No,you're wrong. I'm not stupid, and I'm not about to post something that's deeply personal to me for everyone to read. You wouldn't either. If you want to know why, then PM me, until then you won't know.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 So that still doesn't explain why horrible things happen to people who are both good and have accepted Jesus in their hearts.

Let me see if I can explain. The world we live in is sinful, thus we still have to deal with bad things happening. Unfortunatly,that's life.

Also, God will allow certain things to happen to teach us things, or to help us build character. It's a test,you could say.
Also,some things are inflicted on us by Satan. He'll do anything to try and make you slide from your faith..
Just remeber,Satan is allowed on this earth for the time being. He can create a lot of trouble,and he will as long as he can.

Also, we all still make mistakes..For every sin there is a consequence. So some of the pain we go through, we have brought up on ourselves.

I hope this answers your question.

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 Let me see if I can explain. The world we live in is sinful, thus we still have to deal with bad things happening. Unfortunatly,that's life. Also, God will allow certain things to happen to teach us things, or to help us build character. It's a test,you could say. Also,some things are inflicted on us by Satan. He'll do anything to try and make you slide from your faith.. Just remeber,Satan is allowed on this earth for the time being. He can create a lot of trouble,and he will as long as he can. Also, we all still make mistakes..For every sin there is a consequence. So some of the pain we go through, we have brought up on ourselves. I hope this answers your question.

how do you know what god wants and doesnt want????? How the hell doyou know?? Did that book tell you???? How did you come up with these answers?

This is geting ridiculous

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 No,you're wrong. I'm not stupid, and I'm not about to post something that's deeply personal to me for everyone to read. You wouldn't either. If you want to know why, then PM me, until then you won't know.

Allow me to put a pre-emptive stop to this line of reasoning:

If something is deeply personal to you, then that means it is completely SUBJECTIVE. You CANNOT debate with subjective arguments! If you have nothing objective to say, then it is not worth hearing [in the context of this debate].

I'm sure you might be a very nice person to get to know, but for the purposes of this debate, nobody gives a shit about your personal life.

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 You totally don't get what I'm saying. It's not that God needs money. It's just a sign that you love God enough that you're willing to give up your money, it's also showing that money has no control over you.. Don't you understand?

So if someone doesn't have enough money to provide for their children, so they starve in order for their kids to eat, they should still fork over 10% of their pay?

You shouldn't have to pay to prove your faith. In any religion.

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Originally posted by anuneventrade You shouldn't have to pay to prove your faith. In any religion.[/font]

I smell some R.W. Emerson here

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Originally posted by Galapidate I smell some R.W. Emerson here

Are you calling me a transcendentalist?

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Originally posted by anuneventrade So if someone doesn't have enough money to provide for their children, so they starve in order for their kids to eat, they should still fork over 10% of their pay? You shouldn't have to pay to prove your faith. In any religion.

You are asked to pay,not demanded, it's not paying God to prove your faith. It's giving up 10% to show that money is not to control you.. If you give your 10%, you will be given back to. God will bless you.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King how do you know what god wants and doesnt want????? How the hell doyou know?? Did that book tell you???? How did you come up with these answers? This is geting ridiculous

It's not called " That Book ",It's The Bible,the Bible does tell what God wants.

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Originally posted by DigiNut Allow me to put a pre-emptive stop to this line of reasoning: If something is deeply personal to you, then that means it is completely SUBJECTIVE. You CANNOT debate with subjective arguments! If you have nothing objective to say, then it is not worth hearing [in the context of this debate]. I'm sure you might be a very nice person to get to know, but for the purposes of this debate, nobody gives a shit about your personal life.

I entered this debate, then people started going on about how God isn't real,but for a fact I do know He is. I'm not going to post it all out in public,but if people do want to know I have invited them to PM me. So, either way people are still getting their answer, those I trust that is.

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 You are asked to pay,not demanded, it's not paying God to prove your faith. It's giving up 10% to show that money is not to control you.. If you give your 10%, you will be given back to. God will bless you.

So wait- God's not going to bless me unless I pay him to? When Christianity was started, I highly doubt that they had evolved to yearly salaries yet, so I'm quite doubtful that they had to give up 10% then, which means, that throughout history, individuals did not always have to pay.

Yes... with those collection baskets they send around... they aren't demanding at ALL!

Yeap, I think I'm just going to stick to what I believe

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Dick Sutphen professional hypnotist and author of Persuasion & Brainwashing Techniques Being Used On The Public Today Right about this time, when an eyes-open mass-induced alpha mental state has been achieved, they will usually pass the collection plate or basket. In the background, a 45-beat-per-minute voice roll from the assistant preacher might exhort, "Give to God Give to God Give to God" And the audience does give. God may not get the money, but his already wealthy representative will

they don't have to demand, at this stage of church you are about 25 times more suggestable than when you walked in, it's called brainwashing.

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 I entered this debate, then people started going on about how God isn't real,but for a fact I do know He is. I'm not going to post it all out in public,but if people do want to know I have invited them to PM me. So, either way people are still getting their answer, those I trust that is.

Be careful, they are all obese 60 year old men that are going to track down all of your information as they hack through your PM box... omg! Look outside your window!

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Originally posted by anuneventrade So wait- God's not going to bless me unless I pay him to? When Christianity was started, I highly doubt that they had evolved to yearly salaries yet, so I'm quite doubtful that they had to give up 10% then, which means, that throughout history, individuals did not always have to pay. Yeap, I think I'm just going to stick to what I believe

No,that's not what I'm saying. You are totally twisting what I'm saying. It's not paying like you're thinking it is. It is giving up money willfully, to God.. so that his will can be done, like helping others you know?

For example,with all the tithe money from my family we're helping Jews in Russia get home. So far, we've gotten 3 people home.
We also give to an organization,where you take a shoe box and you fill it full of things like toys, tooth paste,shampoo,clothing,and makeup...etc and you send them to adults and children who are in need.
That's what tithe money goes to.

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Originally posted by anuneventrade Be careful, they are all obese 60 year old men that are going to track down all of your information as they hack through your PM box... omg! Look outside your window!

and that's the reason I didn't post the personal reasons, because I knew someone would start in being immature.

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WhoaNellie For example,with all the tithe money from my family we're helping Jews in Russia get home. So far, we've gotten 3 people home.

oh dear, you shouldn't mention the J-word in a thread or it will get hijacked

and we're having too much fun laughing at idiot fundamentalists to let this thread become an Israel / Palestine topic

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 No,that's not what I'm saying. You are totally twisting what I'm saying. It's not paying like you're thinking it is. It is giving up money willfully, to God.. so that his will can be done, like helping others you know? For example,with all the tithe money from my family we're helping Jews in Russia get home. So far, we've gotten 3 people home. We also give to an organization,where you take a shoe box and you fill it full of things like toys, tooth paste,shampoo,clothing,and makeup...etc and you send them to adults and children who are in need. That's what tithe money goes to.

Why not just give the money directly to charity, instead of filtering it through the "community"? It's a well known fact that 3/4 of the money supposed to go to charities never reaches where it's supposed to go. I mean, with all those service fee's and all, how COULD all of it get there, right?

With the collection baskets that go around directly however many minutes into mass, I can hardly say that's "willfully". Imagine if you didn't put money in the basket. You'd be talked about at the next three sewing circles for sure!

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 and that's the reason I didn't post the personal reasons, because I knew someone would start in being immature.

I think you need to brush up on the definition of sarcasm. I merely made that comment because I find it humorous that people can use "trust" "personal information" and "online" in the same sentence. How will you know if you can trust one person from another?

Do you honestly think none of us had any "personal" issues that made us believe in what we do? This is a debate. If you are not willing to front your side, what are you doing in it?

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 and that's the reason I didn't post the personal reasons, because I knew someone would start in being immature.

For christ's sake Nessa...

NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOUR #@^&#*&^%^!%@$!%$!!!@ PERSONAL REASONS!!!!

DEBATE OR STFU!

quote:

Originally posted by anuneventrade Why not just give the money directly to charity, instead of filtering it through the "community"? It's a well known fact that 3/4 of the money supposed to go to charities never reaches where it's supposed to go. I mean, with all those service fee's and all, how COULD all of it get there, right? With the collection baskets that go around directly however many minutes into mass, I can hardly say that's "willfully". Imagine if you didn't put money in the basket. You'd be talked about at the next three sewing circles for sure!

Sometimes I don't put money into the basket. If I'm not learning from the pastors lessons,or from the church then I don't give money there. I only give to places I know the money will go to the best use, and I only give to the churches that teach me things, that make me grow..but I always tithe, everything I make. I've been very blessed,and I've always been able to afford things...

Infact, I was very tight on money around Christmas time, I was trying to enter a musician contest..I didn't have all the proper studio equiptment, I needed an MTR.. I prayed about it,and I still tithed even if I was tight on money..God provivded me with the money I needed, and now I have the equiptment I need,and beyond.. Blessings,I'm telling you.

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Originally posted by DigiNut For christ's sake Nessa... NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOUR #@^&#*&^%^!%@$!%$!!!@ PERSONAL REASONS!!!! DEBATE OR STFU!

Maybe you don't,but I'm sure there are those who understand,and do care. You seem to be the only one complaining.

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Originally posted by anuneventrade I think you need to brush up on the definition of sarcasm. I merely made that comment because I find it humorous that people can use "trust" "personal information" and "online" in the same sentence. How will you know if you can trust one person from another? Do you honestly think none of us had any "personal" issues that made us believe in what we do? This is a debate. If you are not willing to front your side, what are you doing in it?

I am willing,and I have. Just ask. Only a couple of people PMed me, So people must not want to hear I guess. So why are you complaining?

To add,I don't find anything funny about this topic.

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Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 Maybe you don't,but I'm sure there are those who understand,and do care. You seem to be the only one complaining.

** I feel somewhat embarrassed, but I could not afford to stay in band because it was about 500 flat right then and there. I play the drums and can totally relate to financial needs. My parents are divorced and my dad has a pretty nice relaxed income, but my mom's is not equivalent. Also, when I do go to church I may not put much in but that's because they ask every week.

quote:

Originally posted by anuneventrade Are you calling me a transcendentalist?

Maybe

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