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-- TOTA Mobile/Wireless/Celluar/VOIP Thread
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Originally posted by loconet Unf'in believable!!! This will only end up screwing us, the customers, up the ass .. in multiple ways! source: Internet Daily This is not a business plan, It's blackmail! Is the Mafia running BellSouth now? If this thing goes through and is not stopped, it has the potential to throw the whole Internet economy out of wack. Greedy bastards.

i'm very doubtful that this is gonna fly ... juss the sheer thought of regulating it sounds mindnumbing enuff

Technologically its possible to enforce rules, on file types, origin, destination, size, protocols, etc etc etc...

But it'll be a hell managing all this bs.

Agreement for this site, for that site, heck, there's millions of sites, hundreds of ISPs.

Billions of agreements??

I don't think so.

Its a pandora box that will result in a loose-loose situation for both content vendors and ISPs.

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Originally posted by rabbitjoker It's only a matter of time until networks provide service level tiers for the data that moves across their fiber. Paid data gets priority over free data. I'm not certain if this is good or bad - it will very much depend on how it's rolled out (the devil is -always- in the details). However this type of fee struture is required in the long term if network quality and network investment is going to continue. If data moving across a network is a zero revenue proposition - why should companies invest in building new networks, let alone maintaining current ones?

Businesses already pay for excess bandwidth over fiber (and copper). If you pay for a burstable T1 and they find you over the 95th percentile for your chosen pipe, you'll get charged plenty for it. Every service provider and datacenter calls this a "tier" as well.

I doubt they'd move to a "paid vs. free" structure - it's more complicated to configure and enforce and would probably result in a lower ROI. Just maintaining all the interacting priorities would be a nightmare and the implementation cost would be astronomical. What if you pay for priority with your service provider, but your traffic is getting routed through some other server which your provider does not have priority with? There are transitive bandwidth and transitive trust issues here that can't be ignored. Nobody will pay extra for "priority" data if they can't be guaranteed a priority to all of their stakeholders.

A scaled-down version with a few priority levels might work for residential consumers and their ISPs, since there's fairly low bandwidth demand and only one point of origin, but since you're talking about fiber I'm assuming you're focused on the commercial sector.

I can see it happening as voip proliferates among other things... both consumer and commercial...

I'm too tired to get into this in detail, because who knows - this is pure speculation, but to keep it simple, the way I'd see this type of thing working is (and I could be wrong):

1) Consumers will never be directly charged a levy since their data transfer involves SPENDING money (not MAKING money). Corporations who MAKE money via a product or service that involves significant data tx will be charged the levy (i.e. iTunes, Vonage, Google Video, etc).

2) 1000s of agreements for "priority"/"guaranteed" data tx service level would not be necessary. Agreements will only need to be reached with the backbone (which in reality is a handful of major fiber owners). Since fragmentation of the fiber happens so close to consumer - the fragmentors (consumer ISPs) will be large (the few phone/cable companies) *or* small. The large fragmentors will have clout to demand levy, the small fragmentors will not. Backbones plus large fragmentors still probably does not number over 50 companies.

3) The levy will not be for USAGE, but for service level (guaranteed quality levels). The charge is NOT for access (which is a business model we already have and all use), the charge will be for GUARANTEED LEVEL of service (once already accessed) when data is traveling on provider's network (provider being a traversed network, not main connective network).

Scenario: Currently iTunes has no service level guarantee with the 2nd, 3rd, Nth-hop networks that iTunes's MP3's travel along to get to the consumer. If iTunes's direction connection is via UU, UU providers service level guarantees to iTunes - but once the data leaves UU, it's a blackbox.

If during a transaction (purchase of MP3) iTunes's data travels to the consumer via iTunes-->UU-->Verio-->ISP-->Consumer, Verio has the opportunity to say to iTunes "Listen, your business is dependent on smooth data flow. We'll prioritize/guarantee service level your data when it crosses our network for a fee.". iTunes then works with UU on routing to ensure that iTunes data stays on "prioritized" backbones as long as possible.

The above scenario is not all that complex from an execution or technology standpoint. Frankly I'm surprised that it's taken this long for the major fiber owners to figure this out. Time to recoup costs baby!

Opportunity: If someone was smart they�d go out right now and sign priority agreements (not access/usage agreements) with the major fiber owners � strike good deals before the model is totally figred out. Package/build an (relatively) out of the box data routing system and license it to companies with main revenue streams are dependent/relying on prioritized data rx/tx. Cut the fiber layers in on a % of the license; allow smaller companies to get similar QoS as the big guys. I�m certain that there is/will be a 2nd or 3rd tier (companies smaller than the iTunes, Vonage) market for this type of service.

So much for being tired, LOL! Feel free to punch holes in this. The more holes we can plug, the better the business plan will be...

it makes sense RJ where you're talking about guaranteed/improved service levels... and in fact it's already happening at the consumer level today!

Shaw already offers a quality of service package to their own end-user Internet customers where for $10 per month extra, they get an improved QoS for their connection that is being advertised to improve voip that runs over the public internet in particular:

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Enhance Your Internet Telephony Service. Shaw High-Speed Internet customers now have the opportunity to improve the quality of Internet telephony services offered by providers such as Vonage and Primus. Learn about the Shaw Quality of Service Enhancement.

http://www.shaw.ca/en-ca/ProductsSe...Enhancement.htm

it already happens for websites, buisnesses...

I don't believe companies like itunes and others, get the "regular" package from their provider. They get QoS guarantees, redondant lines, punitive clauses, etc.

They even use services like akmai who has thousand of servers worldwide to propagate data withtout it going thru many hops.

I'm not talking DIRECT PROVIDERS. I'm not talking arm's length suppliers. You guys keep going back to this - this is -not- what I'm talking about.

What I'm talking about is paying money for data tx priority with the N-th hop fiber/network owners (priority over all other passthrough data).

The model makes even more sense if the fiber/network owners throttle non-priority passthrough data. Imagine!

On another note, the Samsung A920 still isn't available from Bell.

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Originally posted by rabbitjoker I'm not talking DIRECT PROVIDERS. I'm not talking arm's length suppliers. You guys keep going back to this - this is -not- what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is paying money for data tx priority with the N-th hop fiber/network owners (priority over all other passthrough data). The model makes even more sense if the fiber/network owners throttle non-priority passthrough data. Imagine!

dude i get it, what you don't understand is that its like a cascade, first hand provider in order to deliver these guarantees have to see his supplier to get the same deal, etc etc... its a domino effect.

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Originally posted by malek dude i get it, what you don't understand is that its like a cascade, first hand provider in order to deliver these guarantees have to see his supplier to get the same deal, etc etc... its a domino effect.

It won't be a true cascade if Bill Smith, chief technology officer at BellSouth is going to be charging content companies to use his fiber.

Further - it isn't going to continue to be a cascade if telephone and cable and wireless companies to work out a way to deliver traffic at various levels of service quality.

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Originally posted by VERTiG0 On another note, the Samsung A920 still isn't available from Bell.

http://www.bell.ca/shop/en_CA_ON/63699.details

People have bought them from Bell World stores.

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Originally posted by rabbitjoker It obviously isn't a true cascade if Bill Smith, chief technology officer at BellSouth is going to be charging content companies to use his fiber. Further - it obviously isn't going to continue to be a cascade if telephone and cable and wireless companies to work out a way to deliver traffic at various levels of service quality.

BellSouth sounds like a company who wants to higher its fees but don't know which reason to invent... because bandwidth is cheaper than it ever been.

Well, let them higher their prices, competitviness and free market will do the rest.

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Originally posted by malek BellSouth sounds like a company who wants to higher its fees but don't know which reason to invent... because bandwidth is cheaper than it ever been. Well, let them higher their prices, competitviness and free market will do the rest.

Fair enough. That very well could be a reasonable explanation to BellSouth's motives.

----

I agree with the prediction of large scale tiered QoS for data rx/tx in the not so distant future.

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Originally posted by daves it makes sense RJ where you're talking about guaranteed/improved service levels... and in fact it's already happening at the consumer level today!

Very interesing. Shaw should go after the companies making money off their networks as well - hit up both sides of the equation (corporation + consumer).

one more thing, why is BellSouth so preoccupied about QoS now? Its not like content makers (ex: itunes) are being sued for not delivering to their clients... the more i think about this, the more i believe its an elaborated cash grab.

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Originally posted by rabbitjoker http://www.bell.ca/shop/en_CA_ON/63699.details People have bought them from Bell World stores.

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Coming Soon. This item is currently not available for purchase

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Originally posted by VERTiG0

Bell World store!

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Originally posted by rabbitjoker Bell World store!

I would think that if they have them in stores, you'd be able to buy them online as well, yes? I believe you though. Oh Bell, what have you done?

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Originally posted by magikb I couldn't live without my crackberry, that is for sure

I heard somebody call them that during the summer, and thought it'd be funny to make a picture if they really existed. Enjoy...

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Originally posted by Crazy Serb we let them get away with that... anyone remember the good old days when we didn't have to pay for incoming calls?

actually FIDO still has an unlimited incoming plan if I'm not mistaken. I'm on one, and it's great.

All incoming calls, and text messages are free, 100 daytime, and 1000 night/weekend mins for $25/month. For someone like me, who doesn't call anybody during the day, because I'm in school, it's great.

Motorolla V710


Would this be a good investment? I'm upgrading from my current cell phone which is about 4 years old.

^^
looks goood.. what's inside?

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Originally posted by Adamo Motorolla V710 Would this be a good investment? I'm upgrading from my current cell phone which is about 4 years old.

The Good:
Bluetooth, MP3 ringtones, Expandable Memory (microSD card), Large internal & external Colour Screens

The Bad:
-Each number has to be listed under a different name, instead of one name with multiple numbers for it.
-Large form, kinda heavy
-My personal dislike of Motorola, I don't like thier menu/navigation at all
-External Antenna

Anybody have anything to say about the Motorola SLVR? It's a piece of shit, isn't it.

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