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-- Should the guy pay for the date?
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Originally posted by Jayx1 how come we cant be like sweden and europe (and most places in the modern world) when it comes to the simple act of dating then? I think we have a long way to go. We have to change a lot of ideas and perceptions about how people should be treated as equals and that goes along every single class line you can think of.

We can't be more like Sweden or northwestern Europe (you can't paint all of Europe with the same brush here but certainly the northwest fits what you're getting at) because they are far more socialist countries then we are. The people of these countries actually believe that all people are equal regardless of race, sex, class, or sexual orientation. We do not... not yet anyway. They didn't change their attitudes overnight either. They have a much longer history of socialism then we do. We'll get there but it will take a few more generations.

I'm surprised that you would want us to be more like Sweden given that they are amongst the most socialist states. I figured that your political views are right of centre.... is that not correct? I suppose it is possible to think one thing politically and another socially, unfortunately you cannot have both in practice.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard We can't be more like Sweden or northwestern Europe (you can't paint all of Europe with the same brush here but certainly the northwest fits what you're getting at) because they are far more socialist countries then we are. The people of these countries actually believe that all people are equal regardless of race, sex, class, or sexual orientation. We do not... not yet anyway. They didn't change their attitudes overnight either. They have a much longer history of socialism then we do. We'll get there but it will take a few more generations. I'm surprised that you would want us to be more like Sweden given that they are amongst the most socialist states. I figured that your political views are right of centre.... is that not correct? I suppose it is possible to think one thing politically and another socially, unfortunately you cannot have both in practice.

Im a financial conservative but a liberal socialist. In other words you can do whatever you please just dont make the rest of us foot the bill. And i dont buy into canadian brand of social equality and left wing societal views which basically means inequality but on the other foot.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Im a financial conservative but a liberal socialist. In other words you can do whatever you please just dont make the rest of us foot the bill. And i dont buy into canadian brand of social equality and left wing societal views which basically means inequality but on the other foot.

I'm not sure that you can have a socialist society without an extensive tax base, however, this is not a thread to debate policy.

I agree with you that the present "equality" is more concerned with compensating agreeved parties for the inequalities they suffered in previous generations. I further agree that this is not true equality. It would seem I am just more optomistic then you as I see this as one step in a process of moving toward true equality. Based on what other states have gone through in their quest for equality this is a normal and necessary step.... it is the inevitable overreaction to new social conscience. We will take corrective measures as we raise the next generation and they will make further corrections as they raise their children.

My views aside, please continue to express your outrage as society needs firebrands in order to keep the injustices fresh in our minds. I know it probably sounds odd that I would say such a thing given that we disagree in a great number of areas, however, it is true... we need people to yell from the hill tops in order to draw our attention to things. Whether people agree with you or not at least you've made them think about something and that is a valuable service.

i never expect everyone to agree with me. But as long as they at least think about what im saying i am satisfied.

You can have a financially conservative but socially liberal party. But when i say social i dont mean socialism. Im talking about libertarianism and equality. I am not a true libertarian in the sense that i do believe the government has a role in many areas. But there is no doubt that the government here has overstepped it's bound many times over in all aspects of our daily lives.

Like i said, in my canada you can do whatever you want to do with your life as long as you are responsible enough to support your decisions. For example, want to have kids? Well great have as many as you want but dont expect the state to pay for child care.

"pay for the date"...well there's several to choose from along Jarvis or Lansdowne

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Originally posted by RobbyG. "pay for the date"...well there's several to choose from along Jarvis or Lansdowne

Exactly! LOL

Someone should send the message to these young "liberated" women that having a guy pay for a date is similar to prostituting themselves.

I guess it all has to do with the way you were raised. Personally, I think that if it's a relationship you're looking for, then the first few times, the guy should pay, but after that, it should be an equal 'responsibility' for both of you.

Re: Should the guy pay for the date?

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Originally posted by St_Andrew so, someone just got pissed on me big time cause i didnt pay for my date's supper (my date didn't get pissed, but my host mum). So i was woundering, you think the guy should pay for supper if you go out for a date? Personally i have nothing against paying for supper, but then i also excpect her to pay for me some other time, so either some kind of every other time, or seperate bills. If the girl excpect me to pay every time im seriously not thinking she is worth my time, but then again it might be because im used to another culture And i know there was a similar thread a while back, but i cant find it!

Without a doubt....the guy should pay for the first few dates or until you get her in the sack. There are just some old fashion gestures that should be maintained....simple things like opening a door for a lady and paying for a date.

After you have been dating for awhile then I don't think it matters.

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Originally posted by Kytracid Jus a stab in the dark here, but i'm thinking it's gonna involve one or more of the following: cooking, cleaning, performing no hands fellatio, pumping out babies in timely fashion, looking good on your arm and ummm...lots and lots of botox injections and plastic surgery.

No... I cook and clean... I'm also against most plastic surgery (it should only be performed in situations like severe burns or severe deformation). I'm also against the idea of a trophey wife... and looks are not the most important thing anyway.

The economics change with marriage, with the pooling of resources.

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Women don't need to be pampered and treated like princesses. That's their daddies job for the first 10-15 years of their lives, not yours.

Absolutely disagree. If you care about her, you'd pamper her without thinking about it. Also, women go through things that men don't, so it's a man's duty to give more help to her than the other way around.

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Reaching for your wallet everytime the bill arrives doesn't make you a real man. It just makes you a chump and her personal ATM machine.

Your view of women as money-hungry is really skewed. Paying for dates doesn't make a man a chump, it makes him considerate.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf No... I cook and clean... I'm also against most plastic surgery (it should only be performed in situations like severe burns or severe deformation). I'm also against the idea of a trophey wife... and looks are not the most important thing anyway. The economics change with marriage, with the pooling of resources.

So, I guess that leaves her with the role of providing you with the no hands fellatio and pumping out the odd baby or two eh ?

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Absolutely disagree. If you care about her, you'd pamper her without thinking about it. Also, women go through things that men don't, so it's a man's duty to give more help to her than the other way around.

Sounds like passive chavunism to me. Treating women like they're too fragile and might break if they lift a fingernail might work for you. Frankly, i'm of the opinion that women are capable of enduring more hardship then men. Women are generally stronger mentally then men. They also have a remarkably high threshold of pain. Don't let the princesses around here fool you. Socities elsewhere have been built on the backs of women. Not saying it's fair...but to say that they need help is incorrect. I agree that it's a man's duty to help his woman. But pampering is something i'd reserve for my kids...i'd want the very best for my wife, but i wouldn't pamper her. I object to the use of that word because in my mind if you pamper something, you run the risk of spoiling it. The snooty bitches you see running around these days are a by product of men who sought to gain control by pampering and showering them with all the luxuries the material world has to offer.

You don't need to coddle a woman to show her that you are a considerate man. I doubt todays strong, independant woman even wants to be pampered all the time. Women can pamper themselves - and do so on a regular basis. If you turn yourself into an ATM machine for them...expect to get used. If you send out signals that you're the type of man who wants to treat his woman like a princess all the time you'll inevitably find yourself under the heel of a princess with queen-bitch aspirations. Might not happen today...but you're setting yourself up for that in the long run.

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Your view of women as money-hungry is really skewed. Paying for dates doesn't make a man a chump, it makes him considerate.

Paying EVERYTIME makes him a chump. I never said a man shouldn't pay...but if you're reaching for the wallet everytime, while she's reaching into the prada bag for her lipstick...buddy, you're a chump. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise. A considerate chump...But a chump nonetheless.

Personally, I believe in equality in relationships. I very rarely have the guy pay for me...for anything. I don't really like it when people buy me things. Even on my birthday! I feel bad! Haha On special occassions, like Valentine's Day or something, okay. But for the most part, I like to split the bill.

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Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* Personally, I believe in equality in relationships. I very rarely have the guy pay for me...for anything. I don't really like it when people buy me things. Even on my birthday! I feel bad! Haha On special occassions, like Valentine's Day or something, okay. But for the most part, I like to split the bill.

^^^ Same here! I like paying for my own stuff... unless it's a special occasion... I also like the taking turns to pay idea, that way everyone gets treated once in a while and it's only fair!

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf

As a guy, if you want to pay for your date, than that's great and awesome. It's a very nice, considerate and generous thing to do (the same vice versa if the woman would like to pay for the date).

But to think you are expected to pay or that it is your "duty" or something to pay is insulting in the least!


As an aside, I'm curious to what these other things women go through that men don't (besides the already mentioned child birth) that "entitle" them to such things as the man needing to pick up the tab...?

I'm not saying I don't pick up the tab, hell, most of the time I do, and I don't complain or worry about it -- but that's because I've chosen to do so because I want to and don't generally mind, NOT because I feel I'm obliged to and that it is my duty as a man!

~Jem~

to all my ladies!!!!!


All the women who are independent
Throw your hands up at me
All the honeys who makin money
Throw your hands up at me
All the mommas who profit dollas
Throw your hands up at me
All the ladies who truly feel me
Throw your hands up at me

Re: Re: Should the guy pay for the date?

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced Without a doubt....the guy should pay for the first few dates or until you get her in the sack. There are just some old fashion gestures that should be maintained....simple things like opening a door for a lady and paying for a date. After you have been dating for awhile then I don't think it matters.

if i have to be old fashioned why shouldnt she be then? Stay home and raise the kids and have supper waiting for me when i get home. Oh so now im chauvenist.... but what does that make the woman who expects me to still be traditional?

Glaring double standards here.

Re: Re: Re: Should the guy pay for the date?

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Originally posted by Jayx1 if i have to be old fashioned why shouldnt she be then? Stay home and raise the kids and have supper waiting for me when i get home. Oh so now im chauvenist.... but what does that make the woman who expects me to still be traditional? Glaring double standards here.

I agree though..and I'm a female..not sure what that makes me..

*I should add. This is how I feel. I would never try to force my opinion/beliefs on another person.

*~LiSa-LoO~* and preppie chick, wish more girls were you like you here cheers to you =) there is light! hehe, actually you are kinda like swedish girls, they even get offended if you offer them to pay too much!

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Originally posted by Jem_hadar DUDE! Whut the holy christ! I cant believe that fuckn shit! you have GOTTA be kidding me... she fucking sent ur host mom an email (let alone a MASSIVE-ass email) re: this matter. dude, thats gotta be bullshit, are u for real!?!?!? WHo the fuck are u living with?? and HOW THE HELL do you deal w/ it! Im w/ Jayx1, i know this women, but i find her UTTERLY RIDDICULOUS!!!!!! im in shock and disbelief. I could NEVER have lived in your situation under such a regime! Dude, tell me shes religious too... -jem-

LOL yeah she is super religious too!!! and it is IMPOSSBILE to change her mind about anything when she has decided for something (which is pretty much always)... even tho she doesnt have ANY logical arguments!!!

i hate it

and yeah i dont know how i survive, its a matter of patience i guess learnt a lot tho, so its still a great experience even tho i kinda expected something else

42 days left!!!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Should the guy pay for the date?

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Originally posted by No one I agree though..and I'm a female..not sure what that makes me..

a truely liberated unselfish woman?

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*I should add. This is how I feel. I would never try to force my opinion/beliefs on another person.

the problem is when other's views are forced upon you by society. Such as in St Andrew's case with his host mother and all the others berating him for standing his ground.

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Originally posted by St_Andrew *~LiSa-LoO~* and preppie chick, wish more girls were you like you here cheers to you =) there is light! hehe, actually you are kinda like swedish girls, they even get offended if you offer them to pay too much! LOL yeah she is super religious too!!! and it is IMPOSSBILE to change her mind about anything when she has decided for something (which is pretty much always)... even tho she doesnt have ANY logical arguments!!! i hate it and yeah i dont know how i survive, its a matter of patience i guess learnt a lot tho, so its still a great experience even tho i kinda expected something else 42 days left!!!

Like i said... save your money and your grief and warn all your countrymen about canadian women...

No wonder most of my friends are either single or dating a FOB LOL

dummy disclaimer: FOB is not meant to be racist or demeaning as FOB can denote anyone from any country including europe or the US.

Re: Re: Re: Should the guy pay for the date?

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Originally posted by Jayx1 if i have to be old fashioned why shouldnt she be then? Stay home and raise the kids and have supper waiting for me when i get home. Oh so now im chauvenist.... but what does that make the woman who expects me to still be traditional? Glaring double standards here.

There are women who don't mind being old fashioned, and suprisingly these women don't really have a problem with chauvanism either. That label is used by women who're working and consider themselves independent and above their counterparts who prefere to stay at home.

Personally, i hate anyone who thinks being a stay at home mom is somehow less demanding then working fulltime. Simple fact. Kids at a certain age need to have constant parental care. Someone has to do it. Women are natural caregivers so historically they have been the ones who have been saddled with the responsibility while men go out and earn a living. In todays society, women have more choices, so if my wife told me she'd rather work then i'd gladly stay at home and raise my kids. It's not something i feel i'm naturally suited to do...but hey, we all make sacrifies in life, so if it came down to a choice between having my kids raised by strangers, or me putting on an apron and turning into Martha Stewert and baking cookies and arranging play dates you better believe i'll be ready to do it.

PS. The 'bitch' better come back with some paper though...I got needs to you know... shopping, getting my nails done, buying outfits, malltrps for the kids, buying a cute lil mini van...damnit, i'm starting to think like one of them now... !

*flips channel to ESPN and feels his manhood spring back to life*...Ahh, that's better.

im not saying its wrong or right for women to stay at home. People should do what they feel makes them happy. But for a man to say that he wants a wife who stays at home with the kids and cooks he is called a chauvenist. Meanwhile women expect men to be traditional when it benefits them and thats the comparison im making. There are highly successful or wannabe successful career women who still demand that the man be traditional when it comes to money and chivalry and i find that to be bullshit. And that is about 95% of the current generation of single women btw.

But yes, i agree there is nothing wrong with stay at home moms at all. My mother was one.

Who's gonna pay for these princesses?

Bah... Beckham is a bigger pussy than the whole argentine team of 2002 combined.

Lets see Argentina kick some ass next year

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Bah... Beckham is a bigger pussy than the whole argentine team of 2002 combined. Lets see Argentina kick some ass next year

LOL!!! Batistuta is a close second tho!!! Sorry for hijacking the discussion...HAD to post this!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Should the guy pay for the date?

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Originally posted by Kytracid or me putting on an apron and turning into Martha Stewert and baking cookies and arranging play dates you better believe i'll be ready to do it. ... *flips channel to ESPN and feels his manhood spring back to life*...Ahh, that's better.

LOL!!! LIAR!!! I know you're watching Home and Garden right now...or maybe even the Food Network!!! LOL!!!

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