TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Music Discussion
-- Suddenly I realized the stupidity of long buildups
Pages (12): « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 »

quote:

Originally posted by Aiwendil Saying something sucks doesn't make one an elitist.

Saying that a whole bunch of people who like said thing suck is elitist.


QUOTE]Originally posted by Sykonee
Hi, my name is Goa. Perhaps you've heard of me?[/QUOTE]

Yes, I have, but one cannot say in certainty that certain styles of music would or would not have become more popular, forecasting an alternate present is not a good way to put views across in a debate.

It's pretty simple logic. You don't listen to music without hooks, builds, vocals, and pretty melodies. Neither do most of the people on this website. You never have and probably never will. Therefore if trance had remained without hooks, builds, breakdowns, vocals, and pretty melodies, you would not have been listening to it.

quote:

Originally posted by kr00t0n Saying that a whole bunch of people who like said thing suck is elitist.

Not neccessarily. And nobody said that anyway.

Im just gonna make a quick comment on Ishkur for being a bell-end after saying that, in his 'music guide' trax such as Barbarella an Beautiful Things are "Brit House, beacause if anyone could make house (trance?) music this boring and monotonous, its the British". We nutured the early scene bonehead, Sasha was born about 10 miles from where Im slinging this shit from! (PS I could see the funny side, but then after reading on I found him to be a bit of a tit).
Actually, the whole guide was a bit pointless, its just an ego-flex of yet another self-important clown with too much time on his hands.
Flame on, biatch.

you people are really getting worked up over this eh? Its just music.

quote:

Originally posted by Aiwendil It's pretty simple logic. You don't listen to music without hooks, builds, vocals, and pretty melodies. Neither do most of the people on this website. You never have and probably never will. Therefore if trance had remained without hooks, builds, breakdowns, vocals, and pretty melodies, you would not have been listening to it.

I think you have gotten the words simple and flawed confused.

A hypothetical situation if you would:

A person hears the current trance sound and likes it, starts listening to more.

The same person never hears the current trance sound, hears the original trance sound.

How can you say that just because someone likes something that they heard, they would not like something else, had they never heard the other form of trance?

I mean, that's like saying that if I never heard any of the types of music I like now, I wouldn't like any music at all.

crappy prog house sounds like one big buildup to nothing to me.

I think this debate needs to be taken to punKaddict.com to hear their take on all of this. Far as I know, they've been at this exact same arguement (new popular punk sounds nothing like real, original punk) for a hell of a lot longer.

Yes, but punk is practically built on elitism.

We need more threads like this - good debates with people that know what they are talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Yes, but punk is practically built on elitism.

Wasn't that prog rock?

wasnt that hiphop? etc

quote:

Originally posted by n0bben wasnt that hiphop? etc

hello

quote:

Originally posted by Shafteh I don't care if i get mauled.. but.. Cosmic Gate - Exploration Of Space...

Are you kidding me?!?!?!?!

quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee Hi, my name is Goa. Perhaps you've heard of me?

Goa wasnt even trance. It was just co-incidence that the two were called the same thing in the first place.

Claiming that club trance stood any sort or chance to remain underground is pure fantasy. A lovely one all the same but I think it has nothing to do with the sound, buildup or structures of the tracks.

Fact is, you throw an event in a club, you need commercial viability to make it happen. It needs to be promoted and people need to drink at the bar... just to get the music out there on the PA system.

Throw an event on a beach with your own sound system... none of the commercial restrictions are present and DJs and people are free to play and listen to whatever they want. The music itself isnt under any pressure to get out there onto radio stations, in DJ crates or on top 20 lists.

Decentralisation of a movement provides a certain freedom from commercialism that isnt possible when a movement takes place in a club environment. Trance never started out as commercial, but as soon as it started competing with house for floorspace at major clubs, it started a vicious cycle of promotion that eventually drove it into the mainstream. As it becomes more popular, the big DJ's get more into it, people rave about the big ch00ns more, the events sell more tickets, promoters and labels become more interested... and the cycle continues... but hey... the kids love it

quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl Goa wasnt even trance. It was just co-incidence that the two were called the same thing in the first place.

hoooold it mister. what makes goa not trance? goatrance in my opinion have more of the original "trance" elements than the usual trance music. Its based on hypnotic and spiritual themes. so since when is goa not trance? Never heard anyone say that goa is not trance.

Hehe... I knew someone would pick me up on that. Ofcourse its trance. I meant its not a derivative of trance music per se... like progressive, tech, uplifting etc... which are all traced back to the same source ie: 'trance' But when people point to goa and say... why isnt trance like it used to be? Well thats just wrong. Trance was never goa and vice versa.

quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl Hehe... I knew someone would pick me up on that. Ofcourse its trance. I meant its not a derivative of trance music per se... like progressive, tech, uplifting etc... which are all traced back to the same source ie: 'trance' But when people point to goa and say... why isnt trance like it used to be? Well thats just wrong. Trance was never goa and vice versa.

trance is goa's parent genre. dj's arrived to goa and played trance, it didnt work for a while, but they kept at it, and slowly the backpackers started to like it. it mutated a bit in goa, and went back into the rest of the world at the hands of those djs.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T trance is goa's parent genre. dj's arrived to goa and played trance, it didnt work for a while, but they kept at it, and slowly the backpackers started to like it. it mutated a bit in goa, and went back into the rest of the world at the hands of those djs.

The root trance sounded more like goa than what's called trance today. Goa is pretty much the path original trance took, and the epic genre is a splinter.

Katana - Tribal Shock has a pretty damn long buildup.

What about the songs like

BT - Flaming June
Salt Tank - Eugina

To me I find alot of songs that have buildups and breakdowns are very tastefully done. It is a bit presumptous to say that all builup breakdown trance is stupid, despite it not being as repetitive and hypnotic as its precursors. I agree that it should be called something other than trance but just because it is not entrancing doesn't make it bad music.

How did the classic trance get displaced by this newer style anyway? Clearly the people who make the epic trance sound were not the same people who were making the first trance tunes, did they just quit because a spinoff was getting more attention? There seem to be sooooo many people who prefer that old sound, it is hard to understand why that sound just stopped getting made if so many people even to this day still prefer it. I dont see why they couldnt have just kept making it and continued pleasing the niche crowd who liked the classic trance music, how did the arrival of epic trance cause the displacement of the classic sound, why couldnt they just keep making it? The way I see it, if I had made some amazing new style of music, then somebody else came along with a commercialy succesful spinoff of that music, there would be no reason for me to stop making my sound despite a large following developing for the spinoff. I dont understand why classic trance became so rare and why all the musicians abandoned it just because a spinoff became more popular, it seems that if that music was really such a special thing they would have kept making it despite the succes of the new form.

quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl Hehe... I knew someone would pick me up on that. Ofcourse its trance. I meant its not a derivative of trance music per se... like progressive, tech, uplifting etc... which are all traced back to the same source ie: 'trance' But when people point to goa and say... why isnt trance like it used to be? Well thats just wrong. Trance was never goa and vice versa.

the original trance is closer to goa trance than the trance today. what is called trance mainly today (the stuff Tiesto, Armin plays) is more influenced by pop and eurodance.
people in goa never called the trance there for goa trance. they called it simply trance.

quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl Decentralisation of a movement provides a certain freedom from commercialism that isnt possible when a movement takes place in a club environment. Trance never started out as commercial, but as soon as it started competing with house for floorspace at major clubs, it started a vicious cycle of promotion that eventually drove it into the mainstream. As it becomes more popular, the big DJ's get more into it, people rave about the big ch00ns more, the events sell more tickets, promoters and labels become more interested... and the cycle continues... but hey... the kids love it

To add to this....mainstreamization or something getting popular is not inherently a bad thing, but what can make it a bad thing is the inherent danger in creating something for the sole purpose of commercial appeal in the first place.

To wit: commercial music, by its very definition, is very simple, tepid, watered down, safe and boring. It has to be. In order to appeal to the greatest number of people (thus edifying its status as pop), it can't be too "outlandish" or too strange that might offend or turn away the balance of the population. It's got to appeal to EVERYONE...and the only way to appeal to EVERYONE is to not disclude anyone's taste or judgment. Thus, we get this lukewarm schlock that is faux-excitement, made digestible by committee and catered directly to the lowest common denominator. If it were a food it would be white rice.

Pop music is historically retrogressive, and by that I mean it uses tried and true music models and formulas for success. It rarely, if ever, innovates, creates, or evolves new internal structures by itself, because that's not what it's meant to do. Typically, what will happen is the underground--that breeding ground of new forms and new ideas where each scene cares only about self-satisfaction and the satisfaction of its eclectic yet miniscule (and thus non-commercial worthy) fan-base--might accidently create something of worthy appeal to the masses. When this happens, Nirvana and grunge music, for instance, the pop music industry always smells money, never the aesthetics of the music, and immediately makes copycat music (by signing similar sounding bands to big labels) in an attempt to cash in on the craze. In most cases, this copycat music is an inferior, low-quality impression of the original, but close enough that the masses don't mind, because they aren't unhealthily obsessive nitpickers about their music. They just like what they hear on the radio and TV, they generally don't discriminate like the dissectors of the artform do.

In trance's case, it has actually gradually grown into the commercial market rather than shoved into the spotlight suddenly over the night. It's been a slow process of shaving away the slivers of the old trance model that is not appetizing to mass culture and repainting the genre with sing-a-long melodies and car commercial jingles. Slowly over the years it has become more and more like the pop music you people so vehemently oppose, and today's Vocal Trance is pretty much indistinguishable from eurodance--minus the rapping. Now, that wouldn't be a bad thing if the music (and its listeners) didn't have a tendancy to take itself so god damn seriously.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 I dont see why they couldnt have just kept making it and continued pleasing the niche crowd who liked the classic trance music, how did the arrival of epic trance cause the displacement of the classic sound, why couldnt they just keep making it? The way I see it, if I had made some amazing new style of music, then somebody else came along with a commercialy succesful spinoff of that music, there would be no reason for me to stop making my sound despite a large following developing for the spinoff. I dont understand why classic trance became so rare and why all the musicians abandoned it just because a spinoff became more popular, it seems that if that music was really such a special thing they would have kept making it despite the succes of the new form.

It isn't that it was stopped being produced. What happened was the old labels that supported it folded (EyeQ, Music Research) or changed direction (Platipus, Rising High). And the newer ones never picked it up, instead focusing on the catchier sound that was tearing up clubs and raves since it was far more marketable. Without label support, the old stuff faded away.

Even if he produced the exact same stuff today, you'd never see a B-Zet release on Armada or Black Hole, as it's hardly the kind of music they promote. And without those labels' top jocks slamming it, your typical tranceaddict ain't gonna even know it exists. Only the hardcore dig deep and long enough to discover what else is out there on small, small labels releasing this kind of material out of a single ski shop in Smithers (or something like that).

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T trance is goa's parent genre. dj's arrived to goa and played trance, it didnt work for a while, but they kept at it, and slowly the backpackers started to like it. it mutated a bit in goa, and went back into the rest of the world at the hands of those djs.

What is the connection there? Which DJ's that could have been classified as trance DJ's went to Goa?

As far as I know it was mainly artists like Goa Gil, Front 242, Juno Reactor that evolved EBM and Techno music into Goa trance, rather than European DJs taking early rave trance there and allowing it to evolve.

So essentially, you have labels like Platipus, Harthouse, Noom releasing early and what we coin as the 'original' trance form in Germany and UK, but at the same time on the other side of the world, you have a collection of other artists discovering a similar sound ie: Goa trance. The two may have been very loosely influenced by each other, but I dont think there was any real connection there?? Bear in mind, this was before the internet and forums such as this and before laptop production. Collaboration between the two movements would have been difficult. At the best, DJs would have supported both styles of trance.

I could be wrong, but I've never been shown any real proof to the contrary.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.