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-- Jihad on Denmark - freedom of expression rears its ugly head once again...
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| Originally posted by Goashem ... or the ridicule of him by drawing him with a pig snout... |
no i assumed the very original was the one with the pig snout (or something related to a pig) and later came the one with the bomb on his head. in either case, im sure of it that if the muslim community did not react in such a fanatic manner the paper would have apologized for offending them and we'd all move on with our lives.
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| Originally posted by Goashem i think this whole ordeal is stupid. if muslims didnt react in such a crazy way i bet the paper would have apologized for making the cartoon and there wouldnt be an issue of freedom of speech. you know what paulo di canio (a soccer player) makes fascist saluts and envokes the "freedom of speech" right to do it. but that movement is very offensive and incites hate and is just unappropriate in todays society. just like the portreyal of mohammad with a bomb in his head or the ridicule of him by drawing him with a pig snout. this kind of things dont belong in a civilized world that promotes unity instead of segregation so cut the whole freedom of speech crap how about the right to be protected from persecution? (and its very ironic that the muslims are kinda doing the same to europeans now) |
I think the bottom line is that in a "civilized" society, if someone draws a picture that offends you, you don't get your friends together and burn down. You can be upset, you can ask for an apology, you can be offended, but leave it at that.
What's the old cliche? Sticks and stones can break my bones but names will never hurt me. These people are hearing the names and whipping out the sicks and stones.
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| Originally posted by NeoPhono I think the bottom line is that in a "civilized" society, if someone draws a picture that offends you, you don't get your friends together and burn down. You can be upset, you can ask for an apology, you can be offended, but leave it at that. What's the old cliche? Sticks and stones can break my bones but names will never hurt me. These people are hearing the names and whipping out the sicks and stones. |
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| Originally posted by InterMilan31 is it just me or does anything they dont like result to violent acts |
Sure seems that way!
Free speech is about the freedom to offend and be offended.
It's the mark of a healthy society.
I read editorial cartoons in the paper that offend me all the time, but I don't burn down embassies over it.
This whole episode really brings to light how deeply entrenched fundamentalism is in many predominantly Muslim countries and how much a threat fundamentalism is to all free people across the globe in our modern world without borders.
It also brings into clear view the absolute naivet�, and foolishness of the neocon plan to impose democracy on the Muslim world that is Iraq.
And to those who apologize for offending others by exercising free speech (this includes President Clinton), I say, "Shame on you."
...and the first death related to the cartoons occurs...
Link to full Story
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| Reuters and The Associated Press reported that a man demonstrating against the cartoons had been shot dead by police after he shot at them. Four others were reportedly injured in the clashes, after protestors threw stones and knives at the police. |
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| The protests soon escalated into fights between Muslims and Christians, and some protesters threw rocks at a Maronite Catholic church, bringing back memories of the civil war that once gripped the capital. |
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| Originally posted by NeoPhono ...and the first death related to the cartoons occurs... Link to full Story |
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| Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Good riddance, one idiot less in the world. |
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| Originally posted by Ian I totally sympathise with your plight, I have nothing but love for denmark, its footballers, some ta members from there, and the beautiful pork products you produce, we should be sticking by you, as we'd expect you to for us. Sadly there's way too many extremeists who can get into the uk so easily, meaning nobody in power will come out in support in fear. |
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| No.10 backs cartoon protests action The behaviour of some Muslim demonstrators in London over the last few days was "completely unacceptable", Downing Street said in a statement. No.10 said the police would have the Government's full support in any actions they wished to take as a result of the demonstrations outside the Danish Embassy in London, protesting against the publication of cartoons of the Prophet Muhammed in a Danish newspaper. But Prime Minister Tony Blair's spokesman stressed it was for the police and the Crown Prosecution Service to decide whether arrests or prosecutions were justified. No.10 also strongly welcomed statements by Muslim leaders in Britain condemning the protesters for carrying threats of death against those who had published the cartoons. |
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| Originally posted by Yoepus Looks like the Muslims couldn't help keep us Jews out of it: |
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| Originally posted by Goashem im sure of it that if the muslim community did not react in such a fanatic manner the paper would have apologized for offending them |
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| FERRO: What was your thinking behind the decision to publish the Muhammad cartoons back in September? ROSE: I was concerned about a tendency toward self-censorship among people in artistic and cultural circles in Europe. That's why I commissioned these cartoons, to test this tendency and to start a debate about it. It was not a media stunt. We just approached that story in a different way, by asking Danish cartoonists to draw Muhammad as they see him. I did not ask for caricatures. I did not ask to make the prophet a laughingstock or to mock him. But you depicted Muhammad with a bomb in his turban, armed with a knife and with a broken halo that resembled satanic horns. The cartoon with horns didn't arouse special criticism; it was the other two. The one with the bomb in his turban doesn't say, "All Muslims are terrorists," but says, "Some people have taken Islam hostage to permit terrorist and extremist acts." These cartoons do not treat Muslims in any other way than we treat other citizens in this country. By treating them as equals, we are saying, "You are equal." Why do you think Muslims are expressing such outrage now, when other religiously offensive cartoons have been published in the past? I think you have to separate this story into two parts. One part [is the debate] inside Danish borders�that has been going on for four months. On the [one] hand, what does freedom of religion imply, what does respect for other people's feelings and religions imply? You have different points of view, and I think it's problematic if any religion�it doesn't matter if it's Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, any religion�tries to impose its own taboos on the public domain. When I go to a mosque, I behave by the rules that exist in that holy house. I will not stand up and make a cartoon of the holy prophet in a mosque. But I think if any religion insists that I, as a non-Muslim, should submit to their taboos, then I don't think they're showing me respect. I think they're asking for my submission. This is a key issue in this debate. You [also] have the international story, and I believe it has little to do with our cartoons. The people in Saudi Arabia and some other countries who have started the action have never seen the cartoons. They are acting on false rumors, misinformation and direct lies. What does this controversy say about assimilation, or lack thereof, in Europe? This is a clash of cultures and, in its essence, a debate about how much the receiving society should be willing to compromise its own standards in order to integrate foreigners. On the other hand, how much does the immigrant have to give up in order to be integrated? Yours is a small Danish paper. Yet your actions had big global ramifications. What does this tell you about how instantly connected the world is today? This is the first time I've witnessed a story in a newspaper with a circulation of 150,000, in a country of just above 5 million people, becoming a global issue. This is a challenge. It means that what you do in a secular, modern democracy may offend people in some parts of the world, people not living in this type of society. I think it would be unfortunate if people in Saudi Arabia or some parts of the world influenced what we speak about in Denmark. [But] it's a fact of globalization, and we must consider it. But you tried to influence what happens in Saudi Arabia via the messages in the cartoons. No, I'm not doing that. This story was about what was going on in Denmark and Northern Europe. So where do you draw the line between censorship and freedom of speech? My newspaper has its limits. In a pluralistic society where you do have freedom of speech, my limits should not be the limits of others. We do have laws against racism and blasphemy. Didn't your newspaper commit blasphemy by depicting Muhammad? Danish prosecutors determined around a month ago that the cartoons were not blasphemous. Will Jyllands-Posten apologize? For what? |
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| Originally posted by DaveSZ This whole episode really brings to light how deeply entrenched fundamentalism is in many predominantly Muslim countries and how much a threat fundamentalism is to all free people across the globe in our modern world without borders. It also brings into clear view the absolute naivet�, and foolishness of the neocon plan to impose democracy on the Muslim world that is Iraq. |
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| Originally posted by Yoepus Also, its very sad how some in our west are apologetic and conspiratorial about this issue: http://mathaba.net/0_index.shtml?x=508448 Looks like some people will just never get it  |
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| America Behind the Insulting Cartoons: Iranian Journalist TEHRAN, 6 Feb. (IPS) As Iran recalled its ambassador from Copenhagen in protest to the printing of some cartoons considers by Muslims as insulting to their prophet, one of Iran�s most influential journalists accused the Americans to have �organised the plot�. �The not strange silence of Al-Qa�eda is the best reason proving that America is behind the cartoons that insulted the holly Messenger of the Almighty�, Mr. Hoseyn Sahri�atmadari wrote on the 4 February 2005 issue of the radical daily �Keyhan�, commenting on the cartoons of Muslim�s prophet Mohammad. Appointed by Ayatollah Ali Khameneh�i, the leader of the Islamic Republic as the Managing Editor of the radical daily, Mr. Shari�atmadari is an advisor to the leader and as a high-ranking security officer; he specializes in the interrogation of political and intellectual dissidents. According to Mr. Shari�atmadari, generally considered as the �brain� of the ruling conservative establishment, �even if Al-Qa�eda would have taken position in the recent controversy (over the publishing of several cartoons of the prophet Mohammad), still no one would have the slightest doubt that the group is made in America and its silence shows clearly that the insult to the Messenger of God in European press has American-Israel roots� (sic), he said. However, Brother Hoseyn, as he is called by his opponents, did not explain the link between the �silence of the terrorist group led by Ossama Ben Laden (considered as the mastermind behind the destruction of New York�s twin towers of Trade World Center on 11 September 1999) and the incriminated cartoons. �The Al-Qa�eda is observing a significant silence concerning the insult to the Messenger of God even though the group, when it was ruling over Afghanistan, would consider men with beards less than 7 centimeters long as being in contravention of Islamic laws and the education of girls as a sin�, he pointed out. (sic) Explaining his �discovery�, Mr. Shari�atmadari said �in 2002, after France opposed the United States� war on Iraq, a French vessel exploded near the costs of Yemen and immediately Al-Qa�eda claimed responsibility in a videotape sent to (the Qatar-based) Al Jazira Television, accusing France of being the enemy of Islam. The group did the same with Germany, another country that was also against the Iraqi war, menacing it with attacks on public places in Germany�. �This time, the mission of insulting the Messenger was given to a few European journalists instead of giving it to Al-Qa�eda. If the group would have no American nature, it should have entered the arena much earlier�, (sic) Mr. Shari�atmadari concluded, forgetting that he had been one of the first �big voices� in Iran to criticize the Government of not having �punished� the Danes. |
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| "They want to test our feelings," protester Mawli Abdul Qahar Abu Israra told the BBC. "They want to know whether Muslims are extremists or not. Death to them and to their newspapers," he said. |
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| Originally posted by DaveSZ It also brings into clear view the absolute naivet�, and foolishness of the neocon plan to impose democracy on the Muslim world that is Iraq. |
For two more great articles (actually 1 great one, 1 ok one), wish Shakka a happy almost 30 day:
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=322900
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| Originally posted by Genesis Evolved Indeed On a sidenote, I find it somewhat odd that our allies, the UK and the US, have showed so little backing on this matter. Kudos to our Prime Minister for not crumbling under pressure. |
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| Originally posted by Goashem no i assumed the very original was the one with the pig snout (or something related to a pig) and later came the one with the bomb on his head. in either case, im sure of it that if the muslim community did not react in such a fanatic manner the paper would have apologized for offending them and we'd all move on with our lives. |
its a FUCKING cartoon.. for fucks sake..go and fuck or eat good food isntead of dwelling on this stupidity.
When will the asteroid come.... when
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King its a FUCKING cartoon.. for fucks sake..go and fuck or eat good food isntead of dwelling on this stupidity. When will the asteroid come.... when |
I think only a minority realize and see a "bigger picture" - it's not about Mohammed or Islam. It's about Iran flaming the international "anti-west" (read: anti-european, anti-american, anti-everything that's not islam) sentiments in an effort to shift the focus from its nuclear weapons program. It's also a defensive mechanism - any strike against Iran on basis of its nuclear goals will be easier presented as atack against Muslims, not against a political entity, who's purpose is to aquire WMDs. Forget Iraq - this is something to be really troubled by. Iraq was a cakewalk, comparing to the stinkbomb this is shaping out to be.
Mark my words - this is just smoldering, the fire is coming.
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| Originally posted by emc^2 I think only a minority realize and see a "bigger picture" - it's not about Mohammed or Islam. It's about Iran flaming the international "anti-west" (read: anti-european, anti-american, anti-everything that's not islam) sentiments in an effort to shift the focus from its nuclear weapons program. It's also a defensive mechanism - any strike against Iran on basis of its nuclear goals will be easier presented as atack against Muslims, not against a political entity, who's purpose is to aquire WMDs. Forget Iraq - this is something to be really troubled by. Iraq was a cakewalk, comparing to the stinkbomb this is shaping out to be. Mark my words - this is just smoldering, the fire is coming. |
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| Originally posted by emc^2 I think only a minority realize and see a "bigger picture" - it's not about Mohammed or Islam. It's about Iran flaming the international "anti-west" (read: anti-european, anti-american, anti-everything that's not islam) sentiments in an effort to shift the focus from its nuclear weapons program. It's also a defensive mechanism - any strike against Iran on basis of its nuclear goals will be easier presented as atack against Muslims, not against a political entity, who's purpose is to aquire WMDs. Forget Iraq - this is something to be really troubled by. Iraq was a cakewalk, comparing to the stinkbomb this is shaping out to be. Mark my words - this is just smoldering, the fire is coming. |
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| Originally posted by Groundhog Boy It's not just Iran. IMO, too many Muslims want a religious war. That's what Jihad is. They're just not smart enough to realize that they'll lose if they go up against Christians, Jews, and secularists all at once. Most Europeans were against what the US was doing in the Middle East, so explain to me the logic of pissing them off so that they now side with the the Americans because they're being attacked. |
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| Cartoon bans hit Danish firms Tuesday, February 7, 2006; Posted: 1:27 a.m. EST (06:27 GMT) (CNN) -- A boycott of Danish goods called by Muslim leaders over the publishing of cartoons of Prophet Mohammad is dealing a blow to the nation's businesses. Oil giant Iran became the latest nation to impose penalties, saying on Monday it would cut off all trade ties with Denmark. Reuters reported that Iran imports $280 million worth of goods from Denmark a year. A report on the state-run news agency IRNA said Iranian Commerce Minister Massoud Mirkazemi had stopped trade with Denmark, but certain types of machinery and medicine would be allowed in for another three months. Iran has withdrawn its ambassador to Denmark as well. Qatar's Chamber of Commerce said it had halted dealings with Danish and Norwegian delegations, while in Bahrain, parliament formed a committee to contact Arab and Islamic governments to enforce the boycott. Iraq's transport ministry also said it was severing ties with the Danish and Norwegian governments, a move that includes terminating all contracts with companies based in those countries. The cartoons of Mohammed first appeared in a Danish paper Jyllands-Posten in September. The paper said it had asked cartoonists to draw the pictures because the media was censoring itself over Muslim issues. Islam forbids depictions of Mohammed and many Muslims were furious at the drawings, one of which shows the religious figure wearing a turban shaped like a bomb. Some other European papers later published some of the cartoons, as a way of covering the controversy and also, some papers said, as a matter of freedom of expression. Two small weekly Jordanian newspapers also reprinted the cartoons and, according to Jordan's Petra News Agency, arrest warrants issued for the editors-in-chief. The Danish paper issued an apology in late January after weeks of quieter expressions of outrage and diplomatic efforts to avoid the widespread violence. The Danish government says it does not control what is in the country's newspapers and that courts will determine whether the newspaper that originally published the cartoons is guilty of blasphemy. The government has also expressed apologies for the offending drawings. (Danes feel threatened) Deadly outrage But tens of thousands of Muslims around the world continue to stage protests -- some resulting in deaths -- over the cartoons. Two protesters were killed and 13 others injured, when Afghan police fired Monday on about 2,000 protesters who tried to enter Bagram Airbase, a U.S. base north of Kabul, The Associated Press reported. In the Afghan city of Mihtarlam, two protesters were killed and three others injured when police fired on a crowd after a man fired shots and others threw stones and knives, according to the AP. (Watch the stones fly and police batons swing -- 2:25) In the east African nation of Somalia, a stampede during a protest killed a teenager, AP reported. (Full story) In Tehran, demonstrators protested outside the Danish Consulate and the Austrian Embassy. Austria is currently serving as president of the European Union. (Full story) Other protests Monday took place in Amman, Tel Aviv, Gaza, Indian-controlled Kashmir, the Indian capital of New Delhi and Kut, a city in southern Iraq where about 5,000 people congregated, burned flags and burned an effigy of the Danish prime minister. 'Not Danish' Meanwhile in Paris, France Soir -- a newspaper that published the cartoons of Mohammed -- was evacuated for nearly three hours Monday after receiving a bomb threat. Amid the violence, non-Danish companies have rushed in to tell consumers about the origin of their products in a bid to keep them on supermarket shelves. Switzerland's Nestle, Italy's Ferrero and New Zealand's dairy co-operative Fonterra were among the companies putting out newspaper ads showing their products were not made or imported from Denmark, according to Reuters. Danish-Swedish dairy company Arla Foods told Reuters it was losing $1.8 million of sales a day in the Middle East. Its products were removed from Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Kuwait. "Not a single sachet of a Danish product is left on our shelves," the director of a Kuwaiti supermarket told Reuters. CNN has chosen to not show the cartoons out of respect for Islam. |
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| Originally posted by EvilTree Funny how Iraqi elections has high turnouts, eh? |
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