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-- Hugo...doing it again.
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| Originally posted by Magnetonium Are some of you so naive to believe that Chavez will turn Venezuela into a paradise in just one term?  Especially with the long history of foreign [American] interference/intervention, wars, and poverty? |
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| Originally posted by LazFX I did |
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| I help out my fellow man and give back to the community back home in Houston. Member of many charitable services that provides to many.... my main focus is on helping fellow Latinos from South of the Border. Right now I give to the sponsoring of a Valenzuela family of 4. You know; help with school clothes, foods, rent and such. I heard from the horses mouth how this man lost his job, home, threats from the special police chavez uses and so forth; all due to being critical of Chavez. He feared for his life and his family. |
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| Originally posted by Magnetonium Are some of you so naive to believe that Chavez will turn Venezuela into a paradise in just one term? Especially with the long history of foreign [American] interference/intervention, wars, and poverty? |
George, can I ask you a personal question - why do you use double standards when it comes to Vladimir Putin? I mean, seriously ... its a similar situation, except with less questionable events. A lot of things you say about Chavez is the way I look at Putin.
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| Originally posted by Magnetonium George, can I ask you a personal question - why do you use double standards when it comes to Vladimir Putin? I mean, seriously ... its a similar situation, except with less questionable events. A lot of things you say about Chavez is the way I look at Putin. |
Don't worry people, I've been doing your work for you and have searched around to find reports of oppressive behaviour committed in Venezuela, Amnesty International analyses each country for human rights and has been extremely critical of Venezuela:
http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/ven-summary-eng
It does seem to be fairly characteristic of all Latin American countries and it's worth pointing out that Amnesty was equally (if not more) critical of the regime that came prior to 1999 when Chavez took over (which would be who the opposition in Venezuela want back in). Still, my opinion of Chavez has decreased, tho whether this means he is a dictator is not clear. Police brutality is certainly a characteristic of a dictatorship, but that in itself does not define a dictatorship (as Magnetonium points out accidentally, Putin and Russia can also be accused of dictatorship as often worse things can happen in Russia, certainly if you're a political opponent)
It still doesn't explain why Venezuela is targeted for criticism and not, for example, Columbia which has a far far worse human rights record than Venezuela ever did. It also doesn't explain support for the opposition which would also be far worse than Chavez. Still, human rights are human rights and if Chavez is responsible, and it's not a legacy left over from previous regimes in the law enforcement agencies, then it is still inexcusable and needs stamping out...
(Not that that should detract from the positive improvements Chavez has made compared to how the opposition used to run things...)
Well, since you've been doing your homework, maybe you can explain to the rest of the class what exactly are the positive things Hugo has done?
Renationalising the oil industry (which was already nationalised but had become almost independent of the state) which has led to an increase in revenue to pay for Chavez's social programs.
Mass vaccinations, food distributions, a massive education plan and the constuction of social housing. A far more democratic Constitution was introduced (it was in fact Chavez who introduced the two-term limit on Presidents he now wants to change!). Communities have a hell of a lot more of a say in political life than ever before. The country is more democratic. The previous regime had taken away all legal rights for anyone who lived in three provinces bordering Columbia, Chavez changed that. The Venezuelan media is amongst the freest in the world.
That said, Venezuela is a typical backwards Latin American state with a very poor and lawless population. Police brutality seems to be rife, as it does in most slums in coutries in Latin America. Put it this way - I wouldn't want to live there!
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| Originally posted by George Smiley That said, Venezuela is a typical backwards Latin American state with a very poor and lawless population. |
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| Originally posted by LazFX typical?? and you are an ignorant dumpster c*nt! |
yes it is
but the GDP of venezuela is the second highest after china
but of course u never read that in the western media
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| Originally posted by Fir3start3r Well, since you've been doing your homework, maybe you can explain to the rest of the class what exactly are the positive things Hugo has done? |
B018, you better retract that GDP statement its not true ... you're giving fresh life to the neo-cons on here ...
it is true
this is in 2005
remeber china's growth was 10% that year
link
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| Originally posted by Magnetonium B018, you better retract that GDP statement its not true ... you're giving fresh life to the neo-cons on here ... |
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| Originally posted by B018 mission miraclo ( free healthcare for anybody in thr world, surgery for free, they pay u the ticket, go ask at the venezuela embassy) mission mercal ( cheap food for poor people) mission robinson ( to read and to make illiteracy = 0) all for free and many more getting argentina and many countries rid of IMFFFFFFFF u remember how imf fucked argentina in 2001 read some books people and stop watching please FOX news or cnn watch democracy now with amy goodman, or aljazeera english or TELESUR real journalism not fake journalism |
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| Originally posted by Fir3start3r Sorry to disappoint but I don't watch any news on the one-eyed brain sucker... BTW...sources?? |
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| Originally posted by LazFX typical?? and you are an ignorant dumpster c*nt! |
I found this to be an interesting article.
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| CASHING OUT Venezuelans Chase Dollars Amid Worries Over Economy Some See Ways to Profit From Chávez's Controls; A Poker-Chip Maneuver By JOHN LYONS August 27, 2007; Page A1 CARACAS, Venezuela—Like many people they know in Caracas these days, Alfred and Norma Muńoz are bracing for what they believe is inevitable: a currency crash brought about by President Hugo Chávez's policies. The middle-class couple plan to borrow as much as they can from a local bank and buy an apartment outside the country. If Venezuela's bolívar plunges against the dollar, they figure, the loan will be cheap to pay off in dollar terms, and the overseas apartment will hold its dollar value. "Plus, it gives you somewhere to flee if things really get bad," says Mr. Muńoz, who runs a small business. At the moment, with oil at near record prices, Venezuela's economy is booming. The fourth-largest oil exporter to the U.S. has averaged 12.6% annual growth since 2004 -- the fastest in Latin America. Three-month waits to buy new cars are standard at Caracas dealerships amid a boom in consumer financing. Unemployment has fallen to single-digit rates for the first time in more than a decade. But there are signs of trouble. Oil production is falling as the state oil company loses top managers and invests less. Inflation is running at 19%, according to the Venezuelan government, though many private economists say the rate is more like 25%, given the increasing role of a black market in hard-to-obtain goods. Partly as a result, the bolívar, officially fixed at 2,150 per dollar, has lost more than half its value on the black market. Many locals fear that official devaluation and runaway inflation is inevitable. The global credit squeeze caused by mortgage problems in the U.S. may give Venezuelans new reasons to worry. That's because oil prices could fall if, as some economists fear, a world slowdown in lending leads to a broad economic slump. Declining oil prices would deprive Mr. Chávez of income for his vast social programs and accelerate pressure on the bolívar. Exasperated Voters In decades past, currency declines and hyperinflation have reared up across Latin America, destabilizing governments and spreading misery among ordinary people. Indeed, Mr. Chávez's own rise to power was helped by a financial collapse and soaring inflation under the mid-1990s government of Rafael Caldera, which prompted exasperated voters to back Mr. Chávez in a 1998 election. If such problems emerge again in Venezuela, they could erode Mr. Chávez's popularity at home, as well as curtail his influence in the region by forcing him to cut back on foreign aid. While the bolívar is weakening, many other oil nations are watching their currencies get stronger. The explanation for the discrepancy lies, at least in part, in Mr. Chávez's economic policies. His attempt to manage the economy for the benefit of the poor has produced unforeseen problems, which he has treated with unorthodox solutions that in turn have created new problems. With each policy turn, people like the Muńozes have become more convinced things will spin out of control. [Hugo Chavez] Since 2003, Mr. Chávez has more than doubled government spending on free medical care, higher salaries, gasoline subsidies and other services. That created more demand for goods and services, which fueled inflation. In response, Mr. Chávez expanded price controls, which now cover meat, sugar, eggs, milk and other products. That led to food shortages as producers balked at selling their goods at the mandated prices. The shortages produced a black market, where prices have soared. This mixture of food shortages, black markets and rising inflation is déjŕ vu for the Venezuelans who have lived through three financial meltdowns since the 1980s. In the most recent, a collapse of a big bank helped bring on a currency crash and inflation that topped 100% in 1996. To protect themselves from a repeat, Venezuelans are trying to get their hands on dollars, further weakening the bolívar. "We all know what is coming, we just don't know when," says David Macedo, who drives a delivery truck that supplies small grocery stores. When he has a few bolívars saved, he says, he often goes to the Caracas airport to buy dollars from arriving tourists. He pays far more than the official rate of 2,150 bolívars per dollar, but less than the black-market rate, now about 4,800. Wealthier Venezuelans have discovered they can use credit cards to exploit the difference between official and black-market currency rates. Some have flown to the nearby island of Aruba and bought $5,000 worth of gambling chips, the maximum overseas credit purchase allowed by the Venezuelan government, according to a person who arranges the trips. They cash in the chips for dollars, then, back at home, buy enough bolívars on the black market to pay off the credit-card debt, this person says. They pocket the rest -- around $2,300 at current rates, more than enough to pay for the trip. [chart] Once locals start expecting a crisis, it becomes harder for the government to avoid one. If shopkeepers expect inflation-fighting policies to fail, they will try to raise prices no matter what the government does. Such a phenomenon was recently seen in Argentina: In 2001, Argentines who lost confidence in their government's ability to avoid debt default began withdrawing their bank deposits en masse, ultimately speeding the economic collapse and currency crash they feared. In Venezuela, Mr. Chávez came to power promising to use the country's oil wealth to benefit the poor. His economic problems started after a 2002 coup attempt and an oil workers' strike. The ensuing economic turmoil prompted many Venezuelans to take money out of the country, which threatened to bring down the banking system. Mr. Chávez stopped the capital flight by banning overseas money transfers and dollar purchases. When oil prices rose, Mr. Chávez sharply increased spending, which helped him win crucial votes in 2004 and 2006. But the capital controls trapped new spending inside Venezuela, more than quadrupling the amount of bolívars in circulation. The bloated money supply undermined the bolívar and fueled inflation. The Chávez government realizes the dangers and vows to tamp down inflation before it gets out of control. In July, it required banks to pay customers higher interest on deposits, in hopes of making the bolívar more attractive and encouraging savings. But the new rate is only about half the inflation rate. Finance Minister Rodrigo Cabezas says the government will moderate spending for the first time in years and will keep the official exchange rate unchanged at least through 2009. "We have no plans for devaluation," he says. Few economists who follow Venezuela are forecasting deep financial trouble, at least while oil prices remain high. Latin American economies generally run aground when they can't afford to pay their bills for imports and debt service. Venezuela currently does not face this problem. But the longer-term prognosis is far from clear. Mark Weisbrot, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, a Washington think tank, who is generally supportive of Mr. Chávez, says the government has time to boost economic growth by investing in industries outside the oil sector. Other economists are more skeptical. They contend that the government isn't making enough long-term investments, such as building factories, and that it remains far too dependent on oil revenue. "We don't know when a crash will happen," says Alberto Ramos, a senior Latin America economist at Goldman Sachs. "But Chávez is driving down the wrong side of the road." [chart] Many Venezuelans are preparing for the worst. Mr. Chávez's control of the legislature, courts and military means it's unlikely the government will alter its current economic course. In mid-August, Mr. Chávez proposed constitutional reforms that would end the autonomy of the country's central bank and eliminate presidential term limits, a move critics say is his bid to become president for life. At the extreme, concerns about the future have prompted thousands of better-off Venezuelans to leave the country in recent years for Miami and such oil centers as Houston and Alberta, Canada. Next year, Mr. Chávez plans to relaunch the bolívar, minus three zeros and with a new name: the "strong bolívar." The plan includes the reintroduction of a 12.5 centavo coin, la locha, a historical throwback to the days of the South American military leader Simón Bolívar, Mr. Chávez's hero. For months, the government insisted that the currency "reconversion" would solve many of the country's ills, such as inflation. The plan was widely disparaged, and in July, a senior Chávez official acknowledged that it "will have no primary effect on the inflation phenomenon." While inflation always hurts the poor by eating into their purchasing power, some of Mr. Chávez's policies to curtail it are helping bankers, securities brokers and other wealthy Venezuelans. With capital controls limiting the amount of bolívars that can be transferred abroad, bank deposits have risen sevenfold since 2002. Financial firms have done a brisk business helping Venezuelans get their money out of the country legally through debt swaps. Using bolívars, the customer buys a Venezuelan security that trades on a foreign exchange, then sells that security, taking payment in dollar-denominated debt such as Treasurys. The payment gets deposited in an offshore account. A Chávez plan to bolster Venezuela's currency by selling dollar-denominated government bonds has largely backfired. The government figured that asking Venezuelans to buy the bonds with bolívars would take the currency out of circulation, boosting its value. Shrewd buyers realized they could get the dollar bonds from the government at the official exchange rate, then resell them on the official Caracas exchange, where the bonds trade at prices much closer to the currency's higher black-market rate. The government tried to give small investors first dibs on the bonds by saying that orders by private individuals for less than $3,000 would be filled first. Brokerage firms paid maids, doormen and laborers about $50 each to sign over their rights to the bonds, says Pedro Torres, a middleman who is paid by brokerages to find working-class Venezuelans willing to turn over their rights to the bonds. He says he signed up 170 for the last bond sale, earlier this year. Black-Market Rates Savvy Venezuelans have also used the dollar bonds to speculate against the bolívar. Purchasing bonds with loans from local banks, they sold enough at black-market rates to pay off the loans, pocketing the difference. By exploiting the gap between the central bank's rate and the market rate, investors have in effect taken free dollars at the expense of Venezuelan reserves. The downward pressure on the currency doesn't end there. Because the Chávez administration's bank regulations have kept loans cheap, Venezuelans have an incentive to borrow not only to buy bonds but other goods as well. They take out loans to buy big-ticket items, such as dishwashers or expensive watches, that will keep their value. These loans, too, pump new cash into circulation, counteracting the government's anti-inflationary goal. "Chávez is the first president to publicize, organize and incite a run on his own currency," said Alejandro Grisanti, an economist who opposes Mr. Chávez. He estimates that at least two-thirds of the government's last dollar-bond issue was bought on credit, including the ones he bought for himself. Venezuela's Finance Ministry declined a request for comment. At a crowded Fiat dealership in Caracas's posh Las Mercedes neighborhood, would-be buyers add their names to three-month waiting lists. They are so eager to purchase they don't care what model or color they get, as long as they get it soon, says sales manager Beatríz Machado. Some used Fiats sell for more than new ones because they are available on the spot, she says. Champagne and Whiskey "They don't want a car. They want a place to put their money," says Ms. Machado, who wears a red blouse and earrings to show her support for Mr. Chávez, whom she credits with helping the poor. She, too, has doubts about the economy, and says she spends her bolívars quickly. Using a bolívar loan, she bought an apartment and a car. Recently, she says, she loaded up on imported champagne and whiskey. The biggest losers may be the poor, many of whom are Mr. Chávez's supporters. Antonio Buitrago, a 57-year-old cab driver, credits Mr. Chávez with helping his son to walk again. Last year, after the young man was badly injured in a car crash, the government paid for medical treatment, including a rehabilitation trip to Cuba. "I trust Chávez is going to take care of me," Mr. Buitrago says. But Mr. Buitrago says his life is getting more difficult these days. He is among what a local pollster estimates are the 45% of Venezuelans who've had trouble finding milk and chicken this year. He can't afford black-market prices for scarce goods, so he stands in long lines at markets that sell subsidized foods. He deposits his savings in a bank, where it's being eaten away by inflation, saying buying dollars on the black market would be unpatriotic. At a recent "Expo Crédito" in Caracas, lines curled around the conference hall. Upper-middle-class Caracas residents waited alongside men in army and fire-rescue uniforms to sign up for credit cards. The conference slogan: "Credit for Everything." Denis Naranjo, an engineer, said he's considering his options. He wants to take out a loan, but isn't sure whether to buy real estate or cars. What he really needs, he says, is a bank account in the U.S. "In Venezuela, things are always changing," he explains. "You need to have a plan, and you need to be flexible." |
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| Originally posted by LazFX typical?? and you are an ignorant dumpster c*nt! |
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| Originally posted by shaolin_Z I don't think George was making a cultural or racial reference there btw. I've never heard him say anything even mildly racist/bigoted, ever, although the same can't be said for... let's just leave it at that. |
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| That said, Muslim countries are all typical backwards with a very poor and lawless population. Muslim on Muslim brutality seems to be rife, as it does in most slums in coutries in Muslim countries. Put it this way - I wouldn't want to live there! |
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| Originally posted by LazFX lets just change a few words in what he stated: now if I would of stated that, you and the rest of you "moon god worshipers" would of ran to Lira and called me out..... am I right?? |
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| Originally posted by George Smiley Erm, South America has the highest crime rate in Earth, the continent is still trying to make the transition from dictatorship to democracy, a lot of major cities have shanty towns surrounding them, corruption and police brutality are rife - and that goes for all the countries in South America. If you feel insulted by that then that's your problem. If it helps, I think pretty much all African countries are backwards and all Asian countries except Japan, South Korea and Taiwan are backwards simply because of the economic situation and the level of governance. That's not racist or xenophobic it's simply the difference between developed countries and undeveloped or developing countries. I don't consider any South American country to be fully developed (ie a Western style liberal democracy) because even Brazil, probably the most developed, has a huge crime problem, police brutality exists and there are many shanty towns - simply not characteristics of liberal democracies (well maybe the crime is) Unless you can tell me why you think any country is South America is as developed as any democracy in North American or Europe, then I suggest the next words to come out of your mouth are "sorry" BTW: If you had changed the words around to talk about Muslim countries that's fine, they do come under the same category as developing or undeveloped countries, but you'd still need to alter the facts so that they would be true - the population isn't by and large lawless (unlike Latin American countries) And it would depend if you were talking about the Muslim people, or the countries they live in... |
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| Originally posted by venomX By your definition though some developed countries would be backwards. Shanty towns are the equivalent of ghettos in the US for example, only the ghettos in the US are government sponsored while the shanty towns in Latin America are not government sponsored (ie. built). I do however agree that there is something to be said of the level of governance in Latin American countries. I believe that is the real flaw in many Latin American countries. The lack of continuity coupled with poor governance is the main issue for the region. |
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| Originally posted by George Smiley Funny tho isn't it, that he spends day after day being racist against Muslims and Arabs, when the boots on the other foot he flies into a rage - Laz, take a look at yourself in the mirror at least if you don't have the bollocks to apologise to me |
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