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quote:

Originally posted by LatinLover WOW I mean someone posts some links of far left media, where it shows no evidence at all these tortures have occurred. Sorry but the one that posted those links, they have little credibility. Prison planet? Thank god i grew out of that shit when I was 10 years old. Back to my point, those links are from far left media. They have proven to denigrate this Admin and only promote negative stuff. Till this day there isnt any credible source that can prove physical torture has occurred. If you think that isolating someone, not feed'em for a period a long of time is harsh than I would be sure that many detainees in Cuba, Iran, North Korea would consider Guantamo a paradise compare to what those thugs in their country do to them To the far left, stop crying over BS and get serious now, come on!

What constitutes "credible source" to you? You can not merely handwave away all sources as "far left" media simply because they do not agree with you. So what constitutes a credible source in your eyes?

The source which leans on the far right. duh...

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 What constitutes "credible source" to you? You can not merely handwave away all sources as "far left" media simply because they do not agree with you. So what constitutes a credible source in your eyes?

Anything and everything Bush or Cheney have said. Everything else is futile. People like this equate patriotism to blind acceptance of policy, even when policy mistakes are made evidently clear...

Latin,

I will post this one last time. I will give you one last chance. Ad hominem fallacies will not do here. Attacking the source without addressing the substance as you just did with Lebezniatnikov will not fly with me, nor will it fly with anyone else anymore. So here is my post again. A simple "yes" or "no" will do:

quote:

You have to demonstrate that you are willing to debate with integrity by reading, comprehending, and directly refuting any counterpoints made to your own baseless assertions. Forget me or anyone asking you to support your initial baseless assertions. We're all aware that you're horribly incapable of that. But if you're not willing to show some maturity and have an honest debate by reading and comprehending any counterpoints made to your assertions, I have absolutely no use for you. I'm busy as shit with school, research, and training right now. I've wasted enough time on your ass in the past trying to get you to engage in a debate with honesty and integrity, only for you to handwave and ignore and act as if you're too fucking high and mighty to do so (and only demonstrated your lack of maturity and integrity as a consequence). It got you banned for good reason, and I'd venture to say it will probably happen soon again. But if you're willing to change your ways and show integrity by comprehending and directly responding to counterpoints made to your assertions, I'll play along and show you the evidence. I have my sincere doubts, as you've just ignored Lebezniatnikov's post with links completely. But I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt one more time. Promise me you'll debate with integrity, and we'll continue.

No more bullshit from you. Debate with the integrity by addressing points made directly to you rather than hand waving them away or attacking their source without addressing the substance or kindly go back to the COR.

And while you're at it, here's an appetizer for you: why would an FBI agent lie about what he saw at Gitmo?:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2004Dec20.html

quote:

Originally posted by LatinLover WOW I mean someone posts some links of far left media, where it shows no evidence at all these tortures have occurred. Sorry but the one that posted those links, they have little credibility. Prison planet? Thank god i grew out of that shit when I was 10 years old. Back to my point, those links are from far left media. They have proven to denigrate this Admin and only promote negative stuff. Till this day there isnt any credible source that can prove physical torture has occurred. If you think that isolating someone, not feed'em for a period a long of time is harsh than I would be sure that many detainees in Cuba, Iran, North Korea would consider Guantamo a paradise compare to what those thugs in their country do to them To the far left, stop crying over BS and get serious now, come on!

Here is a VERY SHORT list of results I found from sources I would consider credible, and centrist, that accuse the US of torture.

Financial Times

http://search.ft.com/ftArticle?quer...0520000392&ct=0

http://search.ft.com/ftArticle?quer...0706010009&ct=0

http://search.ft.com/ftArticle?quer...0511000712&ct=0

http://search.ft.com/ftArticle?quer...0619001829&ct=0

http://search.ft.com/ftArticle?quer...1116009041&ct=0

http://search.ft.com/ftArticle?quer...0616008429&ct=0

http://search.ft.com/ftArticle?quer...0521006491&ct=0

http://search.ft.com/ftArticle?quer...0512006281&ct=0

Economist articles (no links as it's subscription only):

Guant�namo -- Justice shackled
Mar 29th 2007
From The Economist print edition

Trials and tribulations
Aug 26th 2004
From The Economist print edition

Torture
Ends, means and barbarity
Jan 9th 2003
From The Economist print edition

Foreign Affairs

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20070...rikes-back.html

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20070...f-emotions.html

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20070...fghanistan.html

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20051...of-vietnam.html

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20050...ding-china.html


...

And for fun, fox news does torture:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,281228,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,295886,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,269119,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Au...ntanamo,00.html

Here is what Donald Trump had to say about all this:

Huh, ABC, the BBC, and MSNBC are far left? No wonder I have such a slanted view of the world...

Something interesting passed the other by our Senate - the Lieberman/Bush-lite-Kyl Amendment to the Defense Authorization Bill. Before the bill was put to a vote, the following three paragraphs were in the original bill:

quote:

(3) that it should be the policy of the United States to combat, contain, and [stop] the violent activities and destabilizing influence inside Iraq of the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, its foreign facilitators such as Lebanese Hezbollah, and its indigenous Iraqi proxies; (4) to support the prudent and calibrated use of all instruments of United States national power in Iraq, including diplomatic, economic, intelligence, and military instruments, in support of the policy described in paragraph (3) with respect to the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran and its proxies. (5) that the United States should designate the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps as a foreign terrorist organization under section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act and place the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps on the list of Specially Designated Global Terrorists, as established under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act and initiated under Executive Order 13224; http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs...20Amendment.pdf

There was a lot of criticism of these paragraphs as they clearly depict language that would lead to the authorization of Bush to attack Iran. In the end, however, paragraphs 3 and 4 were deleted, however paragraph 5 remained as well as a new paragraph:

quote:

"Secretary of Defense Robert Gates stated on September 16, 2007 that "I think that the administration believes at this point that continuing to try and deal with the Iranian threat, the Iranian challenge, through diplomatic and economic means is by the preferable approach. That the one we are using. We always say all options are on the table, but clearly, the diplomatic and economic approach is the one that we are pursuing."

Sounds rather conciliatory, doesn't it? Let me repeat the meat of paragraph 5 again, the paragraph that remained and was passed:

quote:

that the United States should designate the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps as a foreign terrorist organization

What does our country do with groups designated as terrorist organizations? Here, let me remind you what the 2002 Authorization for the Use of Military Force (AUMF) did for Bush (aside of giving him the go-ahead to bomb Iraq):

quote:

"the President has authority under the Constitution to take action in order to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States," http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html

Hats off, once again, to our hapless, spineless Democrats in Congress. Boy they sure turned things around like they promised, didn't they?

lol

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...l?nav=rss_world

Think he'll go?

AHAHHAH... LATINLOVER IS GETTING TOTALLY RAPED in this thread

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Shibby You don't think that gays in TEXAS (of ALL places) are discriminated against?! Wow, holy living-in-a-bubble.

Well let's compare.

A gay guy walks across the street holding hands with another man

(1) In Texas
Most likely nothing will happen. The worst that will happen is someone will call them a ******. If anything physical happens the perpetrator will go to jail

(2) In Iran
The homosexual will have one of FOUR choices of death: (1) hung, (2) sliced in half, (3) stoned (no not off of pot), or (4) dropped from the highest perch

Texas might be backwards in some ways, but it's still FAR ahead of Iran.

quote:

Originally posted by LatinLover WOW I mean someone posts some links of far left media, where it shows no evidence at all these tortures have occurred. Sorry but the one that posted those links, they have little credibility. Prison planet? Thank god i grew out of that shit when I was 10 years old. Back to my point, those links are from far left media. They have proven to denigrate this Admin and only promote negative stuff. Till this day there isnt any credible source that can prove physical torture has occurred. If you think that isolating someone, not feed'em for a period a long of time is harsh than I would be sure that many detainees in Cuba, Iran, North Korea would consider Guantamo a paradise compare to what those thugs in their country do to them To the far left, stop crying over BS and get serious now, come on!

The BBC is a "far left" source? Are you fucking serious? Just like the far lefties, people like yourself should really stop talking sometimes. You make the moderate right wingers look like idiots since they're on the same team as you.

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