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Umm, that list was all in good fun as we've seen the other one countless times.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Umm, that list was all in good fun as we've seen the other one countless times.

My comments were directed entirely at b.s.e. - I've tried for a while now to have a civil discussion with him on his own terms to no avail. There are, however, other posters on this sub-forum who behave similarly, and in some cases much worse.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov You know what this thread has taught me? That you don't want a debate about issues. I came into this thread asking legitimate questions and asking you to back up assertions with proof. You responded by avoiding all of those questions and raising all sorts of red herrings (yes, a fallacy) - you jump from loosely-formed theory to theory without ever staking yourself to anything factual. It's all insinuation and supposition. Can you call into question the details of a popularly-accepted theory? Maybe - but how are you advancing the debate? Have you proposed a plausible theory of your own? The shameful thing here is that there ARE real questions to be answered about many of the issues you're interested in, and you do your cause a great disservice by behaving the way you do. You'd rather parade yourself around acting superior to all other lines of thought than offer a tangible line of thought of your own. Because you've come to your own "independent" conclusions handed to you by various youtube videos, you have the almighty authority to declare who is intelligent and who is not. You've raised interesting questions, but do so in a brazenly arrogant way and never even make an attempt at discovering answers. For you the question is the end result - if you can discredit some detail, the whole world system is to be doubted by extension. The Council of Foreign Relations is an extreme example of this. Your visceral hatred of this group is based on one thing (I gather from what you've posted thusfar): the prominent role David Rockefeller played in its incorporation. Yet you've backtracked from your initial vehement assertion that Rockefeller was a Nazi. And you've yet to point to any actual activity that CFR undertakes to support your claims. It's mainly a supposition based on the fact that influential people are members and some of those influential people have other associations you don't like. The world is too complex to be orchestrated. Anyone who has studied the myriad of complexities in the world knows that no group of fifteen people, no matter how rich or influential, could in any way control the world. My area of expertise is Africa. You know what that's taught me? Expect the unexpected and you'll still be wrong. I'm not a physicist. I'm not an engineer. I don't know the mathematics behind the structural failings of the World Trade Center. I do know a thing or two about United States foreign policy formulation. I know a bit about the Council on Foreign Relations through both research and practical experience. I know that there's scarcely an iota of truth to your fears about their power or aims. I also know a thing or two about electoral politics. I certainly know enough to realize that despite their membership in the same fraternal organization, there were extraordinarily significant differences between John Kerry and George W. Bush. And between Barack Obama and John McCain. Maybe what to me is a clear division appears as nuance to others. But to cast them both as "the same" simply because neither one is agreeable to you just makes you look uneducated. I also know a thing or two about civil conflict and development efforts in the global south. In fact, these are probably the issues I know most about, but nobody seems interested in discussing them. Should I parade around as the font of knowledge and wisdom in all things related to foreign policy and the third world? Should I call all people who dare ask questions of me or expect me to support my assertions stupid? I digress. The idea that your thoughts and opinions are "independently formed" is farcical at best, but the notion that by extension everyone else's opinions must be implanted by some mythical alliance of authoritarian shadow figures is absurd. Have you ever observed our government firsthand? They can't get even basic things right, and yet you seem to think that in a slow-moving bureaucracy with no secrets there exists any number of nefarious plots to control the world. We're talking about a society in which not even Sarah Palin's shopping habits can be kept secret. Yet you don't stop there - you think there's a shadow government of neo-Nazi communists running the world. Mind you, there's no evidence you've brought to bear to support this, but doggone it you think David Rockefeller is a shady individual so it must be true. No, you're not interested in a debate. You'd rather sit at home and pretend to know the world's secrets. You can't provide proof of anything, but surely anyone who doesn't believe you on faith must be somehow less intelligent. Grow up and maybe people will start giving credence to the things you say.

First of all, this isn't even in context to the thread. We were speaking about gravity and physics.

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Originally posted by {b.s.e.} First of all, this isn't even in context to the thread. We were speaking about gravity and physics.

Whoa, sorry to write a post directed to your behavior in more than one thread at a time.

I don't understand where I am coming across as vehement or condescending.

I provided links to support my claims, now you attack me saying that I have no interest in debate?

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Whoa, sorry to write a post directed to your behavior in more than one thread at a time.

It was a joke, really.. directed at Shaolin.. how did you take offense to it?

Why has nobody addressed my concerns about the seemingly frail state of our Laws of Physics?

Instead I'm labeled arrogant ?

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On You speak of theories and laws as though they are real.

You fail at sarcasm.

Or intelligence maybe.

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Originally posted by {b.s.e.} Furthermore, the Conservation of Energy applies to falling bodies as well. When an object falls, it converts the potential gravitational energy (derived from its height above ground) into kinetic (speed) energy. If the object has to use some of its energy on something else, like air resistance, there will be less energy available as kinetic energy; lengthening the time it spends falling. Let's use the example of a brick falling from the top of the tower, even just the energy required to move air out of the way is enough to slow the free fall time from 9.2 seconds to 12 seconds. The fact that the buildings were observed to fall at essentially free fall speed, means that all of the gravitational potential energy of the building was in fact converted to the kinetic energy of falling. The fall speed accounts for all of the gravitational potential energy available. There is no gravitational energy available to break steel, crush concrete, eject dust or do anything else but just fall.

You've got it all figured out, huh?

What is energy again?

Anyone?

(hint: it's a philosophy)

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby You've got it all figured out, huh? What is energy again? Anyone? (hint: it's a philosophy)

I believe it's the fundamental infinite source that both you, me and the coffee table are made out of.

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Originally posted by {b.s.e.} I believe it's the fundamental infinite source that both you, me and the coffee table are made out of.

You pass this test.

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Originally posted by {b.s.e.} Could you please elaborate for me whether or not you are invoking the Pancake Theory as a possibility?

I'll give you a simple example in the form of an experiment you can do at home.

Fill you left hand with about a table spoon full of pepper, the more finely ground the better.

Lift your left hand up so it is parallel with your eyes and you have a good clear, horrizontal view of the pepper.

Now with your right hand above your left, about a foot or two should work, bring it down as quickly as possible on top of your left hand.

Stop about half an inch before hitting your left hand.

Observe what happens to the pepper. Make sure that you are quite close to the small pile and that you keep your eyes wide open because, based on you theory, there will probably be little if no horizontal movement.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Hehe, they are not "derived" from calculus... mathematics, discrete mathematics, is nothing more than a tool employed to assert the soundness and validity of a theorem. Theories come from ideas and observations. Theories can be build upon discovery of mathematical relationships but they are not "derived" form 'calculus'. I'll be quite impressed if one can formulate and validate hypothesis purely using derivatives, limits and power series... hell, anyone capable of doing that should get a fucking Nobel prize lol.

It happens all the time.

Many people I know of would derive what they needed on exams from first principles (such as limits) if they didn't happen to remember the right formula. That's what's really useful about calculus, if you don't know the relationship between two things you can model it.

Calculus is the alternative to memorizing massive amounts of formula.

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Originally posted by culorut The ASCE was limited by their research. They did not have access to all the information to base a final conclusion.

... and the rest.

Thanks for putting this up. I'm glade to see that there are truthers who use credible sources.

I'll take a look at it when I get the time.

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Originally posted by atbell I'll give you a simple example in the form of an experiment you can do at home. Fill you left hand with about a table spoon full of pepper, the more finely ground the better. Lift your left hand up so it is parallel with your eyes and you have a good clear, horrizontal view of the pepper. Now with your right hand above your left, about a foot or two should work, bring it down as quickly as possible on top of your left hand. Stop about half an inch before hitting your left hand. Observe what happens to the pepper. Make sure that you are quite close to the small pile and that you keep your eyes wide open because, based on you theory, there will probably be little if no horizontal movement.

That doesn't explain anything. What force does the movement of my right hand represent, first of all? If an object has to exert energy on something else, like pushing air from out of its path, there won't be enough energy available as kinetic energy; lengthening the time it spends falling. So how did the kinetic energy double, then quadruple, etc as it smashed through each floor in 13 seconds? Remember, it takes a brick 12 seconds to fall 1350 ft with just air resistance. How could the building fall at essentially free fall speed with more factors (presumably, from your theory) than just air resistance?

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Originally posted by atbell ... and the rest. Thanks for putting this up. I'm glade to see that there are truthers who use credible sources. I'll take a look at it when I get the time.

What is your problem? Where have you come across sources that I've produced that are unreliable in your quest for the truth? You haven't addressed anything I've stated. Just made up some half-assed experiment that did nothing but force me to reiterate my point.

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[i][b]Originally posted by {b.s.e.}

You are a trooper b.s.e, hats off to you.

These fella's have been at it for at least a couple of years in the original 9/11 thread and still ignore the most straight forward facts, evidence, logic and testimonies from people who where actually at ground zero.

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Originally posted by culorut You are a trooper b.s.e, hats off to you. These fella's have been at it for at least a couple of years in the original 9/11 thread and still ignore the most straight forward facts, evidence, logic and testimonies from people who where actually at ground zero.

The only response I garnered was someone trying to trick me into blowing pepper into my face, lol.

Physics 1, Trolls 0

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Originally posted by atbell I'll give you a simple example in the form of an experiment you can do at home. Fill you left hand with about a table spoon full of pepper, the more finely ground the better. Lift your left hand up so it is parallel with your eyes and you have a good clear, horrizontal view of the pepper. Now with your right hand above your left, about a foot or two should work, bring it down as quickly as possible on top of your left hand. Stop about half an inch before hitting your left hand. Observe what happens to the pepper. Make sure that you are quite close to the small pile and that you keep your eyes wide open because, based on you theory, there will probably be little if no horizontal movement.

We all know how things move in relation to "gravity" on this particular planet...

But who exactly is to say that anything is PULLING anything?

Why not pushing? Or something else altogether?

I believe that gravity is nothing more than magnetism.

Magnetism can not be held responsible for two people falling in love.

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby We all know how things move in relation to "gravity" on this particular planet... But who exactly is to say that anything is PULLING anything? Why not pushing? Or something else altogether? I believe that gravity is nothing more than magnetism. Magnetism can not be held responsible for two people falling in love.

Actually, gravity is the one force yet to be Unified.

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby I believe that gravity is nothing more than magnetism. Magnetism can not be held responsible for two people falling in love.

I couldn't help but be reminded of this.

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Originally posted by culorut You are a trooper b.s.e, hats off to you. These fella's have been at it for at least a couple of years in the original 9/11 thread and still ignore the most straight forward facts, evidence, logic and testimonies from people who where actually at ground zero.

Since we've called them out so many times, I think that they're about to regroup after setting up some new strategy.

I better watch it, though, before Krypton tells me one more time that I can't take criticism. That really hurts, you know.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN indeed, lets play a game. rather than making unsubstantiated generalisations (the mainstay of the conspiracy theorist), how about you link us to an example of a post by a regular user that you think might be a secret government asset mining our forums? in other words, put your money where your mouth is.

Reverse psychology, eh?

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Originally posted by {b.s.e.} Reverse psychology, eh?

LMFAO

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Originally posted by Trancer-X Since we've called them out so many times, I think that they're about to regroup after setting up some new strategy. I better watch it, though, before Krypton tells me one more time that I can't take criticism. That really hurts, you know.

What have you called us out on? By all means, post it. Federal Reserve? 9/11? Let's do this. I know colorut is too much of a pussy to debate me, even when challenged. Trancer, will you take up my direct debate challenge? Post ONE point, in which you believe you have called us out on, or one point, in which you believe you are absolutely right. I will not respond to plagiarized material, so please, your own words will suffice, with of course sources to back you up. I'm ready, are you? So post that one point.

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby You fail at sarcasm. Or intelligence maybe.

Don't try to seduce me.

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