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-- Obesity Tax?
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| Originally posted by jennypie Listen, I'll make it up to you. How would you like to go for some cheesecake? |
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| Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On To your credit though, you did specify that there weren't any actual medical conditions which directly contributed to morbid obesity, though I am sure you worded that considering of course that it can be a side effect of several of them. |
I think that really fat people probably get used to eating a whole lot of food, so that eating an average amount makes them feel like they haven't eaten enough.
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| Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I think that really fat people probably get used to eating a whole lot of food, so that eating an average amount makes them feel like they haven't eaten enough. |
Makes me think of this article:
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| The study was rigorous and demanding. It began with an agonizing four weeks of a maintenance diet that assessed the subjects� metabolism and caloric needs. Then the diet began. The only food permitted was a liquid formula providing 600 calories a day, a regimen that guaranteed they would lose weight. Finally, the subjects spent another four weeks on a diet that maintained them at their new weights, 100 pounds lower than their initial weights, on average. Dr. Hirsch answered his original question � the subjects� fat cells had shrunk and were now normal in size. And everyone, including Dr. Hirsch, assumed that the subjects would leave the hospital permanently thinner. That did not happen. Instead, Dr. Hirsch says, �they all regained.� He was horrified. The study subjects certainly wanted to be thin, so what went wrong? Maybe, he thought, they had some deep-seated psychological need to be fat. So Dr. Hirsch and his colleagues, including Dr. Rudolph L. Leibel, who is now at Columbia University, repeated the experiment and repeated it again. Every time the result was the same. The weight, so painstakingly lost, came right back. But since this was a research study, the investigators were also measuring metabolic changes, psychiatric conditions, body temperature and pulse. And that led them to a surprising conclusion: fat people who lost large amounts of weight might look like someone who was never fat, but they were very different. In fact, by every metabolic measurement, they seemed like people who were starving. Before the diet began, the fat subjects� metabolism was normal � the number of calories burned per square meter of body surface was no different from that of people who had never been fat. But when they lost weight, they were burning as much as 24 percent fewer calories per square meter of their surface area than the calories consumed by those who were naturally thin. The Rockefeller subjects also had a psychiatric syndrome, called semi-starvation neurosis, which had been noticed before in people of normal weight who had been starved. They dreamed of food, they fantasized about food or about breaking their diet. They were anxious and depressed; some had thoughts of suicide. They secreted food in their rooms. And they binged. The Rockefeller researchers explained their observations in one of their papers: �It is entirely possible that weight reduction, instead of resulting in a normal state for obese patients, results in an abnormal state resembling that of starved nonobese individuals.� ...The body�s metabolism speeds up or slows down to keep weight within a narrow range. Gain weight and the metabolism can as much as double; lose weight and it can slow to half its original speed. |
Yes, but to drastically reduce the amount of calories consumed in a day would do that to anyone. It has to be a gradual process so that the body can adjust. And 600 calories a day isn't enough for ANYone.
Exactly. This is a drastic change that they aren't used to. Their body has already gone into starvation mode, and they aren't addressing that. This study is VERY misleading in that aspect.
Sadly, probably the best available medical solution to obesity is almost never used because of the stigma attached to its name. No surgery required, no cutting of your stomach and making it only large enough to hold a tiny meal, no unproven drugs with god knows what side effects. It's been around for decades and its proven - good old methamphetamine.
All the bullshit aside, people are fat because they eat too much, have no willpower, and are inactive. Anyone who has used crystal meth knows that when you take that shit you could care less about eating and you don't have any problem doing whatever physical activities you need to do. Diets fail fat people because when they cut back their food intake to a reasonable level they feel hungry all the time. Most experts agree that if your diet leaves you feeling hungry all the time the chances of long term success is slim. That is why all these 400+ lbs lard asses are getting gastric bypass, because that enables them to eat a tiny meal and feel full. But that is major surgery, its invasive, and potentially life threatening.
If a doctor prescribed methamphetamine to a fat person it would provide all the benefits of options like gastric bypass without the invasive surgery. It would lower their appetite and give them energy in that critical period when they are transitioning from eating like a fucking human pig to eating like a normal person and going from a worthless couchbound slob to someone with a normal level of physical activity.
Methamphetamine is even already available in prescription form as Desoxyn, but yet your chances of getting a doctor to prescribe it to you for obesity are slim to none. The media has jumped all over methamphetamine labeling it as worse than crack and has given it such a bad name that nobody wants to prescribe it. Since Desoxyn cannot be smoked or injected those who are prescribed it don't suffer from the addiction and host of addiction related lifestyle issues that users of street meth do. Studies have shown that when prescribed for ADHD it has no worse side effects or abuse potential than any of the regular amphetamines that are typically used to treat it. Plus it has been around for over 50 years and its side effects are well known unlike all these new diet drugs that have come out recently.
Obviously it would have to be prescribed prior to the point where obesity has caused heart problems, but then we shouldn't really be letting people get that fat anyway. It's funny to me that such a simple and proven treatment for obesity exists but yet is almost never used.
Or skip the stigma and get them to take adderall or ritalin or something similar that isn't full of that stigma.
Don't get me wrong though, I am not objecting to your suggestion.
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| Originally posted by XaNaX It's funny to me that such a simple and proven treatment for obesity exists but yet is almost never used. |
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| Originally posted by gehzumteufel Or skip the stigma and get them to take adderall or ritalin or something similar that isn't full of that stigma. |
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| Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles And the main reason for this is that the rhetoric of "willpower" still dominates discussion of obesity. As long as a problem, such as abnormally high hunger levels, is considered something that people should just "get over" without medical assistance, there will be a stigma attached to using drugs to treat it. People who use drugs for it will be considered cowards and weaklings. |
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| Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles And the main reason for this is that the rhetoric of "willpower" still dominates discussion of obesity. As long as a problem, such as abnormally high hunger levels, is considered something that people should just "get over" without medical assistance, there will be a stigma attached to using drugs to treat it. People who use drugs for it will be considered cowards and weaklings. The history of drug treatment for depression, and its gradual de-stigmatization, is the most obvious example of this principle. |
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| Originally posted by XaNaX Amphetamines do not have obesity as an approved indication in the US, only dextromethamphetamine does, so doctors are very unlikely to prescribe them for it. Plus methamphetamine is far superior to amphetamine in appetite suppression, something that weak-willed fatties need all the help they can get with |
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| Originally posted by gehzumteufel It has nothing to do with dominating the discussion. |
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| Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles The stigma on drugs for weight loss has everything to do with it being considered an issue of "willpower." Back when depression was considered something that anyone could just "snap out of," there was an enormous stigma on drug treatment for that, too. But the terms of discussion for mental illness have changed a lot in the past twenty years or so. For weight issues they mostly have not. |
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| Originally posted by XaNaX honestly, I think you are right and the big reasons there is still a stigma associated with using drugs for weight loss are: 1. the best and most effective drugs for weight loss are prescription forms of abused street drugs that have their own stigma attached to them 2. the average person has nothing but contempt for fat people. in fact, i would venture to guess that if you did a completely anonymous survey I have a feeling that the majority of people would say they are disgusted by them 3. almost every adult in the US has at some point either dieted or at least watched what they were eating in order to keep their weight down. this makes it very hard for people who were successful in doing that to empathize with people who don't have the willpower to do it obesity is a medical condition that people bring on themselves by abusing food and we have little sympathy for people with those types of medical conditions. most people would agree that mental illness is not caused by something the person has or hasn't done (in most cases) therefore we have a lot more sympathy for people that have it and use drugs to treat it |
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| Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles The stigma on drugs for weight loss has everything to do with it being considered an issue of "willpower." Back when depression was considered something that anyone could just "snap out of," there was an enormous stigma on drug treatment for that, too. But the terms of discussion for mental illness have changed a lot in the past twenty years or so. For weight issues they mostly have not. |
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ALBANY, New York (CNN) -- Like many New Yorkers, I remember a time when nearly everyone smoked. In 1950, Collier's reported that more than three-quarters of adult men smoked. This epidemic had a devastating and long-lasting impact on public health. Today, we find ourselves in the midst of a new public health epidemic: childhood obesity. What smoking was to my parents' generation, obesity is to my children's generation. Nearly one out of every four New Yorkers under the age of 18 is obese. In many high-poverty areas, the rate is closer to one out of three. That is why, in the state budget I presented last Tuesday, I proposed a tax on sugared beverages like soda. Research has demonstrated that soft-drink consumption is one of the main drivers of childhood obesity. For example, a study by Harvard researchers found that each additional 12-ounce soft drink consumed per day increases the risk of a child becoming obese by 60 percent. For adults, the association is similar. If we are to succeed in reducing childhood obesity, we must reduce consumption of sugared beverages. That is the purpose of our proposed tax. We estimate that an 18 percent tax will reduce consumption by five percent. Our tax would apply only to sugared drinks -- including fruit drinks that are less than 70 percent juice -- that are nondiet. The $404 million this tax would raise next year will go toward funding public health programs, including obesity prevention programs, across New York state. Don't Miss * Paterson's tax hike proposals draw jeers * Lance Armstrong: Strengthen fight vs. cancer * In Depth: Commentaries The surgeon general estimates that obesity was associated with 112,000 deaths in the United States every year. Here in New York state, we spend almost $6.1 billion on health care related to adult obesity -- the second-highest level of spending in the nation. Last year, legitimate concerns about links between consumption of fast food and the prevalence of heart disease prompted New York City to ban the use of trans fats in restaurant food. No one can deny the urgency of reducing the rate of obesity, including childhood obesity. Obesity causes serious health problems like type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure and high cholesterol. It puts children at much greater risk for life-threatening conditions such as cardiovascular disease and cancer. We must never stigmatize children who are overweight or obese. Yet, for the sake of our children's health, we have an obligation to address this crisis. I believe we can ultimately curb the obesity epidemic the same way we curbed smoking: through smart public policy. In recent decades, anti-smoking campaigns have raised awareness. Smoking bans have been enacted and enforced. And, perhaps most importantly, we have raised the price of cigarettes. In June, New York state raised the state cigarette tax an additional $1.25. According to the Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids, this increase alone will prevent more than 243,000 kids from smoking, save more than 37,000 lives and produce more than $5 billion in health care savings. These taxes may be unpopular, but their benefits are undeniable. Last month, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported that, for the first time in generations, fewer than 20 percent of Americans smoked. Lung cancer rates have finally begun to decline. As a result, we are all healthier. Just as the cigarette tax has helped reduce the number of smokers and smoking-related deaths, a tax on highly caloric, non-nutritional beverages can help reduce the prevalence of obesity. To address the obesity crisis, we need more than just a surcharge on soda. We need to take junk food out of our schools. We need to encourage our children to exercise more. And we need to increase the availability of healthy food in underserved communities. But to make serious progress in this effort, we need to reduce the consumption of high-calorie drinks like nondiet soda among children and adults. I understand that New Yorkers may not like paying a surcharge for their favorite drinks. But surely it's a small price to pay for our children's health. |
The relationship between the decline of smoking and the increase in obesity may be more than incidental. Cigarettes decrease appetite and increase metabolism. Maybe as lots of people dropped the nicotine addiction or failed to develop it, they substituted an addiction for food?
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| Originally posted by jennypie |
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| Originally posted by jennypie |
I bet you, too, are a juggalo.
Oh, you'll be taking that one back. Oh yes, you will.
I'll take that as a yes. 
...
That's me in the hoodie. Pick one.
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