TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Chill Out Room
-- creationism vs evolution
Pages (10): « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 »

quote:

Originally posted by Moongoose I will not even try to guess how Neanderthals reasoning worked and how and/or if they grasped the concept of god. However i will argue that there comes a time where the concept of god becomes a hindrance to a civilization, and that time is when you start evoking the name of god to further your own political or social agenda. When youre able to reason with yourself that its not actually you who wants something but god working trough you, the point has come to drop the concept entirely or suffer the consequences. Sadly, thousands of years have past since the first man reason that to himself and we are still burdened by the concept of god, instead of being able to grow as a civilization in our own right.

The kind of puritan neanderthals that seem to rule the religious right in the US wouldn't be any different if there was no religion. Any dogma can serve as a means to further your own primitive goals. Comunism was the state religion in the USSR (and continues to be in NK) and it performed the same function. With the death of the author (in the Barthes sense of the phrase) any text can become a manifesto which has a life of its own beyond any authorial intent.

A few of my friends are intelligent and religious.. they just find the idea of taking the bible as the literal truth laughable. They are very pro science, pro choice, anti guns etc.. I think it's easy to pick at religion as the cause of the problem. but I think the cause is much older than religion.. it's simple stupidity.

Religion or no.. enlightened people will always take the enlightened interpretation of whatever philosophy they choose to folow and idiots will always take the idiotic approach.

Fire was the first God, or maybe even thunder. There was always a belief in some sort of higher power.

quote:

Originally posted by Fledz Fire was the first God, or maybe even thunder. There was always a belief in some sort of higher power.

you've seen the discussions here concerning the 'god' part of the brain yeah? pretty interesting stuff.

Yea I have but it's friday night and I can't be fucked writing a reply longer than 2 lines

quote:

Originally posted by Fledz Yea I have but it's friday night and I can't be fucked writing a reply longer than 2 lines

i feel you!! i probably wouldn't understand it if you did anyway

off to see tydi tnite. hoping he's gonna bring the cheesy goodness

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Well, I didn�t really intend to get into this debate (especially since your knowledge far far outstrips my own) but it�s a quiet afternoon at work�. I think the central issue I have with your post here is that there is an assumption that religion caused or created these things, when in reality is was merely the fact that religion was the governing ism of the pre-enlightened eras. I think there is an argument to be made that had religion never existed such great works of art or engineering could and would have been created, just with a different focus or motivation. Sure, the great tombs of the Egyptians were built because of their beliefs concerning the afterlife, but imagine what could have been created had they been motivated by other forces? When I see massively huge awesome church structures all I can think of is how much better that time, effort and money could have been spent. Sure, the pyramids are fantastic structures that everyone knows and loves, but take a minute to think of the thousands of peasants that had to build them; what positive role was religion playing for them? Hell, Yahweh thought it was fine for his chosen to slave away in Egypt for 400 years! You rightly identify the fact that religious belief was the governing zeitgeist of the time, but do we praise Nazism for building the autobahns? Nazism didn�t build the autobahns, they just happened to be built during the (thankfully brief) era of Nazism.

I'm not saying that religion caused or created these things. I'm simply saying that it was the motivation at the time. Ancient egyptians lived to die. The afterlife for them was filled with dozens of gods and an eternal living. The argument of slaves building the pyramids and what not is false. There was a work system developed where egyptians worked and got paid for their duties and took pride in construction. It was a huge engineering feat to create these temples and scupltures. I doubt it was simply persecution of slaves to construct them.

You're argument for no religion sprouting culture and civilization cannot be proven or falisfied since we have yet to have any isolated culture without a religious belief system. We can talk about the evolution of religion and it seems that human curiousity is sprouted with ideas to philosiphize and experiement. Without the capability of sophisticated empirical analysis, the easiest route was taken for all isolated tribes and that was simply mythology which with some cultures evolved into a set standard religion. shakespeares sonnets were inspired by the unknown and his wonder to intepret emotion and nature. He was more of a thinker, philospher. Not a scientist. His curiosity lead him to his own religious beliefs (although some may claim he was an atheist) His ideas were not empirically based.

When Religion comes to the point where it herds masses and independent thought abandoned, it begins to degrade society. But up until that point it gives people the motiviation to develop a civilization. History has shown it with the rise and fall of empires.

quote:

I'm simply saying that it was the motivation at the time. Ancient egyptians lived to die

and its really no different today amongst the major religions of todays day and age. except that they outline certain conditions in which we must adhere to before and up and till that point in time.

quote:

The argument of slaves building the pyramids and what not is false. There was a work system developed where egyptians worked and got paid for their duties and took pride in construction. It was a huge engineering feat to create these temples and scupltures. I doubt it was simply persecution of slaves to construct them.

to be honest i think that no conclusive argument has been presented with how these monuments were constructed still to this day. Much of what has been presented is still bound up in skepticism. I mean i have heard of theories that the pyramids were build with the use of sound (and, i could even go as far as to support that idea, even as silly as it may sound.

quote:

When Religion comes to the point where it herds masses and independent thought abandoned, it begins to degrade society. But up until that point it gives people the motiviation to develop a civilization. History has shown it with the rise and fall of empires.

Of course, and that is what initially gave religion its strength in the beginning. And, now clearly, it has got to the point where humans are now taking it upon themselves to think for themselves.

Religion pre-occupies to the foundation of mind even for those that refute such propositions as its the roots to our existence.

quote:

Originally posted by Energy_3 to be honest i think that no conclusive argument has been presented with how these monuments were constructed still to this day. Much of what has been presented is still bound up in skepticism. I mean i have heard of theories that the pyramids were build with the use of sound (and, i could even go as far as to support that idea, even as silly as it may sound.

I dont want to hear conspiracy theory bullshit lol.

save it for buzz aldrin

Evolution is wrong because entropy says the universe evolves into chaos so how can atoms evolve into complex self replicating systems?

Playing devil's advocate here.

Earth is not a closed system.

Next.

Evolution is just a theory, not a fact.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Evolution is just a theory, not a fact.

So is God.

In fact everything is technically just a theory.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Evolution is just a theory, not a fact.

This is the line creationists always use and it is both annoying in that it entails a misunderstanding of science and scientific method but also very self-defeating for the same reason.

Science is ALL theory. It doesn't claim to create unquestionable facts. In fact it is religion that claims to be the source of fact. In fact if we could boil down why science is so much better at describing the natural world than religion it is this very fact.

Every scientific claim is open to challenge on reasonable grounds, every theory or hypothesis can be overturned if enough evidence is provided to the contrary and a better hypothesis is created to describe that evidence. There is an established forum for this discourse (peer-reviewed scientific journals). Only religious extremists claim to have the unquestionable proof, that is entirely unfalsifiable and not open to challenge.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN You rightly identify the fact that religious belief was the governing zeitgeist of the time, but do we praise Nazism for building the autobahns? Nazism didn�t build the autobahns, they just happened to be built during the (thankfully brief) era of Nazism.

while i agree with pretty much everything you said, what I quoted is wrong. The Nazis built the Autobahn, and it would most likely not have been built had it not been for the massive amount of vehicles/troops etc they had to transport.

quote:

Originally posted by netroM

quote:

Originally posted by Fledz So is God. In fact everything is technically just a theory.

Except math.

whats funnier is some of the video responses of people who think they know what evolution is but are misinformed lol.

I think this is also a reason why people divert to intelligent design

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit I dont want to hear conspiracy theory bullshit lol. save it for buzz aldrin

ah come on, you never know

refer to the principle of parsimony

quote:

Originally posted by netroM

Oh dear......

Evolution is a religion because Evolutionists revere Charles Darwin as something of a prophet. Evolutionists worship the creation instead of the creator. Any alternative views such as intelligent design are rejected out of hand because they don't adhere to a naturalist dogma.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Evolution is a religion because Evolutionists revere Charles Darwin as something of a prophet. Evolutionists worship the creation instead of the creator. Any alternative views such as intelligent design are rejected out of hand because they don't adhere to a naturalist dogma.

evolution is a scientific theory. The most plausible theory for the progression of organisms. This is analogous with kinematic equations of newton as they describe movement with respect to time. New theories appear and are corrected frequently. Although newton's kinematic equations are faulty, they are still taught, used and are approximations (as we now know that time is relative to the speed of light).

There is no better explanation for the origin of species and progression of organisms so we trust in the theory of evolution for classification, genetics and medical advancements such as antibiotics.

If there can be some scientific proclaim to intelligent design, perhaps it can be adhered to and in a sense be challenged against the evolution theory. Until this point one should not jump to any conclusion of myth without some sort of empirical evidence to justify. This is not the definition of science.

^^ WOAH, I'm impressed with your intelligence, Allah smiled upon you.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Skez ^^ WOAH, I'm impressed with your intelligence, Allah smiled upon you.

well its ramadan and im a bit hungover this morning.. that smile has turned into a frown my friend..


lol

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.