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Originally posted by WittyHandle I didn't do it to justify being selfish, it was a realization that we are animals and to deprive ourselves of food is against nature. I'm not saying all vegetarians are acting unnaturally, but I made my choice for myself. Vegetarians often make their choices based on psychological factors, not diet related ones imo. Not that a psychological factor is any less relevant than a physical one.

Of course you did. You said so yourself that when you said that you wanted a burger every single day [did you never try a good veggie burger?].

The whole 'against nature' argument is complete bullshit. We've evolved so much and there is no possible way to compare us to a lion. Do I feel bad that my cats eat meat? No. Because they aren't rational creatures. They're just basic animals. We are rational and intelligent beings (or so I've been told) and we know better.

And besides just the whole animal rights thing, eating meat just doesn't make any sense. It isn't anywhere as healthy for you as a plant based diet and it is complete wasteful on so many levels.

The only reasons for eating meat are selfishness and laziness (for those of us in a first world country who can afford the internet).


Eat what you want. Just don't try saying you do it because it's natural. What's natural hasn't had anything to do with the world we live in for a really long time.

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Originally posted by Lews The only reasons for eating meat are selfishness and laziness (for those of us in a first world country who can afford the internet).

Oh fuck off. Do you ever consider that the more developed the society you live within, the more animals are exploited to maintain that society, that supermarket, that Internet every single day? You will always have blood on your hands. The only difference is you remove the blood you can taste and tell yourself you're better for it.

Eat what you want. Just don't pretend it gives you any kind of moral high ground from which to judge others.

I used to think exactly the same as you do. The thing is, we are not logic based creatures, and it took me a while to see that. That doesn't mean it's ok to just do whatever we want whenever we want, but there's a lot more to the human condition than logic. We have not evolved away from the animal kingdom as much as many people might think. As I said before, the facts behind the decision to go vegetarian or not can be swayed either way to suit one's own choice, there is no correct answer. Just don't short yourself by saying selfishness and laziness are the only factors at hand.

P.S. My decision to go back to eating meat was not related to my craving for hamburgers. I made my choice outside of that desire, and allowed it only after that was clear to me.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Oh fuck off. Do you ever consider that the more developed the society you live within, the more animals are exploited to maintain that society, that supermarket, that Internet every single day? You will always have blood on your hands. The only difference is you remove the blood you can taste and tell yourself you're better for it. Eat what you want. Just don't pretend it gives you any kind of moral high ground from which to judge others.

I don't think I'm on any kind of moral high ground at all. Of course I still use animal products and I could be a lot better. Believe me, I'm not trying to say I'm perfect or great or even good. But people have all sorts of excuses that are simply stupid when it comes to this.

Of course animals are exploited every day to maintain the society. But does that mean I shouldn't try to limit it?

Should people not carpool together or buy green products to try to conserve energy? I mean, society uses energy every day and is slowly destroying the environment, so why should people try limiting their uses, right?

That's a fucking terrible argument, Jack. "Society uses tons of X, so trying to limit X is pointless." Come on, now. Of course we need to try to limit bad things. If we don't we're just stupid and immature.

I really like lews when he�s not ranting on about his idiotic anti-meat views. Stop being a fucking retard

Why are you judging Lews?
Are we not all entitled to our opinions?

I like Lews a lot too, he's one of my favorite posters. He's not ranting, and he's not on a moral high ground. He's very passionate about his views and I respect that.

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Originally posted by Lews The only reasons for eating meat are selfishness and laziness (for those of us in a first world country who can afford the internet).

Come on, Lews, not everybody eats meat because they're selfish and lazy. A lot of people eat meat because it's convenient, and yes, they are lazy, and have no idea where the meat came from or how it was processed. But on the other side of the spectrum there are a lot of people who eat meat because they understand it and enjoy cooking it properly. Those people generally are able to eat meat more sparingly than your average obese American.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J The only difference is you remove the blood you can taste and tell yourself you're better for it.

Only people who think they are morally better by not eating meat think this. What about the people who are doing it because it's healthier for their bodies?

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Originally posted by WittyHandle I like Lews a lot too, he's one of my favorite posters. He's not ranting, and he's not on a moral high ground. He's very passionate about his views and I respect that.

Lews accuses people of not caring about animals if they eat meat. I think that qualifies as taking the moral high ground.

Lews is way cool.
I resent your personal judgemental rant.

Then I'll rephrase, because taking the moral high ground is generally the better option. I don't think he is holier-than-thou is probably more in line with my thoughts. Now if we're done here, I'm almost through the BSG mini-series.

quote:

Originally posted by WittyHandle Now if we're done here, I'm almost through the BSG mini-series.

I wouldn�t want to keep you from FAR more important things

How awesome is the camera work eh?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I wouldn�t want to keep you from FAR more important things How awesome is the camera work eh?

Like eating your meat?

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Originally posted by Lews I don't think I'm on any kind of moral high ground at all. Of course I still use animal products and I could be a lot better. Believe me, I'm not trying to say I'm perfect or great or even good. But people have all sorts of excuses that are simply stupid when it comes to this. Of course animals are exploited every day to maintain the society. But does that mean I shouldn't try to limit it?

Because you only limit it as far as is convenient to you. Not just in your actions, but in your very definition of what counts as acceptable loss. Whenever you wash your hands with soap you're massacring life forms, life forms I seriously doubt you give a shit about. You draw arbitrary lines in the sand, based on intelligence or pain or something else.

These arbitrary distinctions and righteousness to the point of convenience are exactly what you're calling "selfish and lazy" in other people. So you are fucking selfish and you are fucking lazy too, you just draw different limits based on your subjective little views. Which makes you a hypocrite when you start getting righteous.

quote:

That's a fucking terrible argument, Jack. "Society uses tons of X, so trying to limit X is pointless." Come on, now. Of course we need to try to limit bad things. If we don't we're just stupid and immature.

It's a terrible argument when you make a laughable strawman like that out of it. And seriously man, get some fucking perspective. Not everyone thinks that farming animals is a "bad thing" and so not everyone eats meat out of mere "laziness or selfishness".

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Originally posted by ziptnf Only people who think they are morally better by not eating meat think this. What about the people who are doing it because it's healthier for their bodies?

They're not the slightest bit relevant to my point, because I was addressing Lews who is quite self-evidently also in it for the moral kicks even if he does have medical reasons.

I have a sudden craving for beef jerky.

I should also point out that comparing vegetarianism to environmentalism is a terrible analogy, for several obvious reasons.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I should also point out that comparing vegetarianism to environmentalism is a terrible analogy, for several obvious reasons.

+1

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I wouldn�t want to keep you from FAR more important things How awesome is the camera work eh?

Funny, I was just thinking that spiral-y doc style camera zoom was cool the first 20 times, but it's getting old now.

Well don�t worry, you�ve only got 4 seasons of that awesome camera work to go!

Eating corn for dinner.

quote:

Originally posted by Danny Ocean i only eat Kobe Beef with Kobe Bryant after a nice afternoon on rented Jet Skis.

haha see!!! So obsessed, holy shit.

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Originally posted by ziptnf I know exactly which cheese you're talking about. It's delicious on a veggie burger. +10 billion. Indian food is awesome.

Pepper Jack Rice Cheese on the morningstar grillers PRIME with some Trader Joes Bold & Tasty BBQ sauce - best burger EVER!

& i haven't completely cut out meat (i eat white meat) but I have found more and m ore delicious things that are meatless. So I don't eat it as often

Heck, even for dinner sometimes my bf and I have black beans with basmati rice & lemon on top. Soooo good. That's a complete protein right there!

& Lews - if you come to NY(brooklyn) I will take you to a really good Chinese restaurant with an amazing vegetarian section.

I gotta take Ammora there the next time she comes. She saw the menu.

Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelicious!

one day I would like to meet melly

quote:

Originally posted by Zeiter People with gluten intolerance, how did you first notice this? What were your symptoms?? My girlfriend went to the doctor and he said she had the irritable bowel syndrome, but hasn't even expected gluten intolerance. She started feeling this way maybe when she was 18-19 years old...

Just wanted to say that gluten intolerance and celiac disease are very different and have their own symptoms. Sorry if you already know that, but a lot of people think they're the same thing when celiac disease can slowly kill you if you continue to eat gluten.

Has she been tested for celiac? If she has, she should attempt a gluten free diet anyways and see how she feels. I had horrible muscle pain, weakness, brain fog, headaches, mood changes, dermatitis herpetiformis on my hands, malabsorption, chronicly low vitamin d, possible anemia, swelling up like a balloon, abdominal pains, developing a ton of food allergies, low cholesterol, gallstones for no reason, and another autoimmune disease (thyroid issues are common in celiacs).

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I should also point out that comparing vegetarianism to environmentalism is a terrible analogy, for several obvious reasons.

Vegetarianism plays a huge role in environmentalism, however.

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