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-- wall street protests...is this the start of the revolution?
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Originally posted by hardcore trancer Worth watching for sure.

*thumbs up*

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Originally posted by Adam420 ... Obviously the concept of a wealth gap is not unfamiliar to these people. It's the fact that the gap has gotten wider and wider in the last (I would say) decade that they are angry about.

The gap is almost always getting wider. When you have money its easier to make more money.

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Originally posted by nefardec the wealth gap we have is a problem, but the major issue is simple:

something is certainly simple that�s for sure.

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Originally posted by nefardec financial institutions basically preyed on people's consumerist aspirations, which they used to create unsound short term investments meant to generate enormous profits for a small group of people, while socializing their enormous risk among everyone else.

yeah, borrowers shouldn�t have to take any responsibility for their poor choices at all! It was all the evil lenders. The risks haven�t been �socialised�; bailout money et al are loans, not gifts. Most of that money has been paid back too, and the fed delivered a record profit to the US treasury. And then there�s the 100+ financial institutions that collapsed. Who socialised their risk?

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Originally posted by nefardec because these institutions essentially own our government and politicians, they managed to get away with this, while everyone else has been left by the wayside.

no doubt the banking lobby is extraordinarily powerful, but that had little to do with the choices the government made. Financial services are special by virtue of their integration at essentially every level of society. That�s why they managed to �get away with it�. let�s be serious here and acknowledge that the proponents of the bailouts were government, not the banks (many banks didn�t want to take money from the govt and were forced to). Certainly nobody was lobbying the government to save their institution (that I am aware of).

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Originally posted by nefardec one could also argue there are some other industries that operate somewhat similarly (pharmaceuticals, food, energy, etc) (that is, by creating demand for things people don't need, then trying to make a ton of money off of it with no consideration given to global consequence), but this movement confronts the financial sector.

I know, right? Who needs food, medicine and electricity!

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Originally posted by nefardec the movement is avoiding making specific demands at this point for a few reasons.

because they�re clueless hacks that wouldn�t understand the GFC if their life depended on it?

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Originally posted by nefardec bailouts for ordinary people as well as banks

why bailout people that have no hope of paying the money back?

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Originally posted by nefardec campaign financing and lobby reform.

that ship has sailed. Take the fight to the supreme court.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN yeah, borrowers shouldn�t have to take any responsibility for their poor choices at all! It was all the evil lenders. The risks haven�t been �socialised�; bailout money et al are loans, not gifts. Most of that money has been paid back too, and the fed delivered a record profit to the US treasury. And then there�s the 100+ financial institutions that collapsed. Who socialised their risk?

I didn't say that. I certainly think anyone who would buy a house without having the right financial situation is an idiot and partly to blame. Greed and consumerism exists at every level, and I think it's a problem, but also human nature, and I think there ought to be checks against human nature when it interferes with the larger functioning of society... that's pretty basic. But it's not the borrower's job approve the loans, which should be one of the checks. In the case of our recent financial crisis, these were not checked, because the risk was passed on and ultimately the only people who were at risk were the people who weren't at the top. Sure those institutions collapsed, but not before a small group of people made off with a great deal of the money.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I know, right? Who needs food, medicine and electricity!

better said - who needs fast food, brand name drugs that doctors are retained to promote occasionally for conditions that companies hire people to invent, and SUVs.

Eh, I wouldn't hang my hat on the "invented conditions" idea. I think what happens is that real problems are being addressed, but meds may not be the proper treatment as often as thought.

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Originally posted by Vector A Eh, I wouldn't hang my hat on the "invented conditions" idea. I think what happens is that real problems are being addressed, but meds may not be the proper treatment as often as thought.

i'm mostly talking about marketing and pushing of certain drug products.

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Originally posted by nefardec i'm mostly talking about marketing and pushing of certain drug products.

You know they have a cream to grow your eyelashes out now!

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby You know they have a cream to grow your eyelashes out now!

i actually use lash serum, and it works

Anyone that wants to understand what went down and how, this is a good place to start:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meltdown/view/

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Originally posted by nefardec I didn't say that. I certainly think anyone who would buy a house without having the right financial situation is an idiot and partly to blame. Greed and consumerism exists at every level, and I think it's a problem, but also human nature, and I think there ought to be checks against human nature when it interferes with the larger functioning of society... that's pretty basic. But it's not the borrower's job approve the loans, which should be one of the checks. In the case of our recent financial crisis, these were not checked, because the risk was passed on and ultimately the only people who were at risk were the people who weren't at the top. Sure those institutions collapsed, but not before a small group of people made off with a great deal of the money.

Agreed. those making the loans (and rating the securities etc) share more responsibility than individual borrowers. I think there were plenty of people �at the top� that ended up shafted. Just check lehman bros.

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Originally posted by nefardec better said - who needs fast food,

poor people.

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Originally posted by nefardec brand name drugs

where do you think generic drugs come from?

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Originally posted by nefardec that doctors are retained to promote occasionally for conditions that companies hire people to invent

like gender identity crisis?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN like gender identity crisis?

you're so predictable.

in the interests of not allowing this thread to be derailed - anyone who is curious about the above remarks made by this troll who wants a history of the diagnosis of gender identity disorder can feel free to contact me for elaboration.

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Originally posted by nefardec you're so predictable. in the interests of not allowing this thread to be derailed - anyone who is curious about the above remarks made by this troll who wants a history of the diagnosis of gender identity disorder can feel free to contact me for elaboration.

Not trolling at all, simply pointing out that there are many medical or psychological issues that other people may dispute the existence of, but that doesn�t make them any LESS real to those who suffer them. it�s ironic that you would defend your own experiences so strongly, while dismissing others� experiences as some kind of conspiracy between medical professionals and big pharma, and then attack me for �dismissing� your own issues.

I think you should stick with the worthless philosophy, you suck at real life discussion.

edited: replaced "more" with "less".

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Not trolling at all, simply pointing out that there are many medical or psychological issues that other people may dispute the existence of, but that doesn�t make them any more real to those who suffer them. it�s ironic that you would defend your own experiences so strongly, while dismissing others� experiences as some kind of conspiracy between medical professionals and big pharma, and then attack me for �dismissing� your own issues. I think you should stick with the worthless philosophy, you suck at real life discussion.

nope, not trolling!

btw why was it exactly that you put the word 'dismissing' in quotations?

it makes absolutely no difference to me whether gender identity disorder is considered a medical disorder or not. in fact i'd rather it not be considered a disorder, because i think that comes from a outmoded way of thinking of gender, similarly to how homosexuality used to be considered a disorder in the DSM. the only reason it's useful to have it in there is because it makes it potentially insurable, but that never really happens anyway, and certainly hasn't for me.

OH NEFARDEC U TROLL !

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Originally posted by nefardec btw why was it exactly that you put the word 'dismissing' in quotations?

meaning I don�t really dismiss the very real gender disorders that people suffer from, I was merely making a point that it�s easy to dismiss something like that when you�re not the one dealing with it.

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Originally posted by nefardec it makes absolutely no difference to me whether gender identity disorder is considered a medical disorder or not. in fact i'd rather it not be considered a disorder, because i think that comes from a outmoded way of thinking of gender, similarly to how homosexuality used to be considered a disorder in the DSM. the only reason it's useful to have it in there is because it makes it potentially insurable, but that never really happens anyway, and certainly hasn't for me.

anything that makes someone wanna cut off their wang should be classified as a disorder

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN anything that makes someone wanna cut off their wang should be classified as a disorder

funny that a lot of cultures essentially do that as a rite of passage. i see it as body modification. btw sometime when you don't plan on eating, google 'penis bifurcation'.

also, not all transgender people want sexual reassignment surgery.

BIG BLACK COCKZ IMO.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I think you should stick with the worthless philosophy, you suck at real life discussion.

Hey, when she decided to become a women she really meant it, that means getting rid of the ability to form a coherent argument or debate rationally.

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Originally posted by Zyklon_Jay BIG BLACK COCKZ IMO.

IMO

Blax.

brap?

https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=281139538577206

lol

alec baldwin down at the camp

This just in:

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Ferris J. Anderson Jr 6:36pm Oct 18 BREAKING: The Occupy Movement has announced July 4th, 2012 as the date of it's first national convention. It's to be held in Philadelphia Pennsylvania. At which time the current list of proposed demands will be ratified as the platform of the movement. Delegates from each congressional district will be elected at the time, and a resolution will be passed stating that if congress, the President and the Supreme fail to act of the resolved motions coming out of the planned convention, the occupy movement will run a new third party candidate in each and every congressional district in this country.

This should be interesting.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer This just in: This should be interesting.

Please be aware that this working group does not represent the entire movement. It's basically a small group 53 people who have been working together to propose something to everyone else.


Here's what OWS actually said today:

source: http://www.occupywallst.org/article...rs-independent/

quote:

Two weeks ago we conducted an anonymous poll on this website to learn more about our visitors. We asked H�ctor R. Cordero-Guzm�n Ph.D, sociologist of the City University of New York to look at the data, which he analyzed to create an original academic paper titled "Mainstream Support for a Mainstream Movement". His analysis shows that the Occupy Wall Street movement is heavily supported by a diverse group of individuals and that "the 99% movement comes from and looks like the 99%." Among the most telling of his findings is that 70.3% of respondents identified as politically independent. Dr. Cordero-Guzm�n's findings strongly reinforce what we've known all along: Occupy Wall Street is a post-political movement representing something far greater than failed party politics. We are a movement of people empowerment, a collective realization that we ourselves have the power to create change from the bottom-up, because we don't need Wall Street and we don't need politicians. Since our humble beginning a few short weeks ago, we've helped inspire people around the world to organize democratic assemblies in their own communities to take back public spaces, meet basic needs, make their own demands, and begin building a better world today.

This is that working group's page:
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
http://www.nycga.net/members/the99declaration

Is there a militant arm yet? Because the right will be waiting in the wings to start killing people if they get too far with their demands. I hope this group isn't totally driven by peace or they will just get swept under the rug.

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