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-- Vinyls vs. CDs
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quote:

Originally posted by s0undw4v3 CD Vs Vinyl ? CD = 44.1 KHz Vinyl = 48 KHz The human ear can hear upto about 18 KHz (20 KHz if your ear is "newly born" ). Considering I'm 18 y/o, I'm more used to CDs... which are the standart to me, so when I listen to a vinyl - I can listen to the differencey between the two! Vinyl sounds better comparing to a CD... although after 18KHz - you can only FEEL the frequencies. 48KHz > 44.1 KHz, therefore you can feel more. And going more into it - a Vinyl is physically "written" on. It's analog, which means it has a nice "unbroken" wave-form coming from it (using the needle). CD is binary, meaning- it's wave-form is "broken" and can't contain all the musical data of an "unbroken" wave-form. it can NEVER get to the vinyl's quality. That's it folks... come back next week fooooor - s0undw4v3's horror picture show! Salamtek! (or cya'll in english )

I assume that since vinyl is analog there is no sampling rate and the 48kHz refers to the bandlimit of the sound. Therefore if you were to sample at 96kHz on a CD and had an digital to analog converter then there would be absolutely no loss in signal quality, period.

If the 48kHz does not refer to this, please let me know what it does refer to. I only am familiar with the theory, I don't know exactly how a vinyl is created, but I know the idea behind how a CD is created.

I'm just guessing so correct me if I am wrong.
I got the impression that ultimately the thing that made the difference was the 'unbroken' vs 'broken' wave form and not the Khz of the sample rate.

If anyone knows it would be pretty cool

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 I'm just guessing so correct me if I am wrong. I got the impression that ultimately the thing that made the difference was the 'unbroken' vs 'broken' wave form and not the Khz of the sample rate. If anyone knows it would be pretty cool Cheers Nem

Sorry, I'll try to make state my point in terms that may be easier to understand. I'm saying that basically if you make a CD by sampling at a high enough rate, (this depends on the highest frequency of your signal), you can completely reconstruct the original analogue waveform out of it. If you have the equipment it is possible to do this. I should state that I have no idea what a digital to analogue converter would cost so I don't even know if it would be practical for a DJ. I just know that it is possible to do if you have the equipment to do it.

I have another semi-related question. Does anyone know how much it would cost to make your own vinyls with a vinyl cutter? To burn CDs it would cost about a dollar per CD in Canadian for me. If I were to have a vinyl cuttter how much would each vinyl cost and how long does it take to make a vinyl with a vinyl cutter? Please sepcify what curency your answer is in so I can convert it to Canadian dolars if I have to.

Cheers.

PS: Sorry, yes I believe that is the main difference as well (broken vs. unbroken) but I'm trying to say that there is a way around it so that it is no longer a factor but I don't know if it's actually used in practice. There could be another factor but I haven't given it enough thought to state here whether or not I am certain on it because I want to avoid people attacking me if possible. =)

Hi Physe,

I am not sure about the cost of producing vinyl with your own cutter but the rates that I pay for my test pressings are as follows depending on how many I think I will need: (Prices are in GBP Sterling)

12"

100 for £349
200 for £379
500 for £499
1000 for £745

I would imagine that if you had the machine yourself you could probably get the cost down even more but the initial cost of the machine is massive. And I'm not to sure what the 'unwritten' vinyl costs.

I know this doesn't directly answer your question but it may help.


Cheers
Nem

Re: vinyl records vs cds

quote:

Originally posted by annon185 what's better (DJwise that is....)?

Hmm,that`s a hard one.. vinyl or cd..

Mixing with vinyl: You get much more respect,and you can express (when you mix or scratch with hip hop & R&B)your feelings,it gets more personal.. But the vinyl cost a lot more money than cd`s.

Mixing with cd: You can have more fun (if you have a professional cd player)because the tecnology is good at that point..
You can burn cd`s, (cheap) or you can by them (cheaper THAN Vinyl) but expencive..

Conclution: I haven`t got ANY idea

Ok.. Vinyl then ..

In the UK, a CD single will cost about the same as some of the more regularly available music on vinyl. The stuff you usualy end up paying for is some of the harder to find music, that is assuming your source is honest with you.
I think the reason why I tend to favour vinyl is that it takes time before a lot of things appear on CD and in the DJ business being ahead of the game is everything. You can admittedly get around that with tunes being available on the net, I do however find that it even takes the net a little longer.

I'm not sure that I agree with you that CDJing is more fun, I think that all depends on what floats your boat.
Although I can see why a lot of Scandinavian DJs play CDs. When I played in Sweden I found that quite a few venues looked a little flustered when we turned up with vinyl. One even took the piss out of us for being backward, actually that gig turned into a bit of a nightmare fullstop (We new we were in trouble when some people came up and asked us if we could play local music and ballads. I think the Trance and Techno mix was a little too much for those poor souls who just wanted to hear the latest euro disco tracks and thought that DJ Sammy was on the egde).
Keeping that in mind the best gig we had was actually in the middle of the woods. A load of Psi trance and Goa heads had invited us to come and play. Was pretty crazy playing to the sunrise at about 2:30 in the morning (I also discovered a total hatred for mosquitos).

Hmmm... I seem to have gone of on a tangent there.

I think the conclusion to this thread would have to be that DJs are not the ones who should be making the decision on which is better. Ultimately it will always be those who (Excluding other DJs) see us in action who's opinion really matters. Did we rock them or not? If the answer to that question is yes... it doesn't really matter how you did it.

Cheers anyways
Nem

Just thought some of us should see this.

Interview with DJ Tiesto.

DJ TIMES: Are you using CD's that much? I thoght you were more about the vinyl?


DJTIESTO: True, but after that CD player from Pionner, I started to use more CDs. It's easier to use more CD's becuase you can get stuff trough email from people and burn them on CD's. You get a lot send, which is cheaper than vinyl. So CD's are taking over a bit. And its 2002, so its about time that vinyl leaves. It's difficult thing for me to say, but the teachnology is developing. Its going to happen anyway sooner or later.

Everyone wants to be a DJ

Turntables (sets of) are now outselling guitars across the globe.

Back in 2000 there was an estimated 40'000 bedroom DJs in England alone. The number has grown considerably since then.

Just out of interest DJDREO, did you cut and paste that or did you type it from the DJ times? (Just curious as to which issue it was, if you have the issue info it would be great. Would like to read the article).


Many thanks
Nem

Wow thats amazing turntables doing better.WOW.

And yeah i typed that I got it from Issue of January 2003. Um if you wish maybe like in 3 weeks i can go over my friends house and scan it for you. The mag has Tiesto in the front cover so its pretty damn hard to miss that mag.

You know in like the old Western movies how the hero always has that kick ass special ability... How he can whoop the bad guys ass all over. Like in Quigly Down Under... he uses that bohemath of a rifle with 2 triggers to shoot people nearly a mile away. At the end of the movie, he's only left with a pistol in a draw.

He wins.

My point is, besides the fact that a Good DJ can adapt to ongoing technology, and still make a crowd cream, is that if you do use CD players to mix, if you run into a draw, make sure you can still use the ol' turntable like it was your old sidekick all along.

Dogmeat.

Ok, i just joined here, and im skipping about ten pages, so im sorry if some of this has been posted allready.

Vinyls

You can easily "scratch" with them, while its more expensive with cds.

They have a more sort of uniqueness to them and it makes you feel like you worked harder to get the vinyl then just download and burn an mp3.

Fer the love of Pete! They look cool!


CDs

Cheap to make.

Im not sure if this is true, but do they have a larger capacity?

They're more portable



Please note that they can also be used in conjunction with each other to really get the crowd going.

Look at a guy like James Zabiela (uses cdjs), a fantastic dj. I believe the dj's creativity will always be more important than the equipment they're using

i'm a vinyl junkie myself, though if i had the cash i'd get a pair of cdj's as well

quote:

Originally posted by nebbian Hi Physe! Good to see you're not letting the stereotypes get in the way of enjoying your music, and even better you're using a mac!! (I'm a proud iBook owner myself :-) ) OK to beatmatch on a CDJ system: Most of all, have fun

Excellent advice here! To take it further, I did two things, I purchased the Turntable techniques book to learn some early basic matching skills. It comes with two identical records and I spent hours practicing (at least one or two per night for several weeks) before it became easy to setup. I was totally disasterous when first learning and often wondered if I would ever master it but slowly it became easier. I ripped the vinyl to CD and MP3 and used those to build the EXACT SAME matching skillz manually _matching_ on both my Denon S5000 and on Traktor. While Traktor lets you match automatically and I often do, learning the pitch bending skills has been truly worthwhile as I can produce a FAR FAR better mix by having my ear better tuned for mismatch and I'm far better at manually syncing the two beats because of the time taken learning the basics.

Moreover its REALLY hard matching Pitch Between a Turntable a Denon S5000 and Traktor, the pitch controls are often positioned differently because of different scaling and its all done by ear, Its a _huge_ rush when you drop in to a mix and you get it all just perfect! My wife laughs her arse off seeing a fat little angry Kiwi barstid dancing round the Garage when I get it just right.

The second thing worth reading is the book How to DJ... Properly by Frank Broughton He and his co-author also authored last night a DJ saved my life and there's lots of good advice in this book as well. The rest is practice, practice, practice, dedication listen to lots of music work out how to fit it all together in you mind then go try to do it on the decks then go back and practice, practice, practice. Most of all have fun and don't let anyone burst your bubble! This is an artform!! Do it your way, regardless of others opinions!

VINYL of course.

Beat-matching is so much easier on vinyl. You don't have to take time spinning that scroll button to find where you're going to drop in your track. On vinyl, all you have to do is look on the grooves and you'll know pretty much where a track breaks down and where to drop the needle.

I think CDs are okay only for sampling sounds during a mix. I've done that before and had some crazy results (while spinning some chill-out hip-hop and adding some kung-fu sound effects).

Besides, if you're also getting into scratching, there's nothing more fresh than vinyl. Y'all vinyl-junkies can agree with that!

the way to go is to use both. i use vinyl as my primary and cds to augment. *every* top jock uses both. i have a friend who spins cds mostly but also spins some vinyl. he has a good reason for this too. the tracks in the style he plays are rather slow, around 120-125 bpm but he likes to spin at about 135 and up. if he pitches all the songs up everything is all high pitched. so, he buys the vinyl, records it to his computer, runs it through wavelab's time compress to speed up the tracks and then burns them to cd. he still spins vinyl when the tracks are right but he spins mostly cds. know what? he just got a weekly residency at velvet in st. louis which was voted the #7 club in the u.s. not only that, his residency is on the "invite/vip only" night. so now what do all you cd bashers have to say? any of you have residencies/experience like that to back it up? if you think vinyl is the only true way to dj and you're too good to use cds then you're just being a close-minded and pretentious fuck. if you can't use both you're only limiting yourself. cheers mates.

quote:

Originally posted by T:REBEL VINYL of course. Beat-matching is so much easier on vinyl. You don't have to take time spinning that scroll button to find where you're going to drop in your track. On vinyl, all you have to do is look on the grooves and you'll know pretty much where a track breaks down and where to drop the needle. I think CDs are okay only for sampling sounds during a mix. I've done that before and had some crazy results (while spinning some chill-out hip-hop and adding some kung-fu sound effects). Besides, if you're also getting into scratching, there's nothing more fresh than vinyl. Y'all vinyl-junkies can agree with that!

Interesting. My plan is to spin with cd's for one year first, then move on to final and be decent with both by year 2.

quote:

Originally posted by roosh Interesting. My plan is to spin with cd's for one year first, then move on to final and be decent with both by year 2.

[ VIO ]

Hey...I'm not trying to bash CD-DJs. I know some of them can mix and skratch better than some vinyl DJs out there. I can operate both, but will stick with vinyl. I think you love your music more if you buy it rather than DLin' songs off of KaZaa and whatever.

[ ROOSH ]

You're going to get into FINAL SCRATCH? I've haven't played around with it, but it involves computers so it's not for me. Let me know how it goes. I first started spinning with CDs. But like I said, once you go vinyl, you won't go back spinnin' CDs.

quote:

Originally posted by T:REBEL [ VIO ] Hey...I'm not trying to bash CD-DJs. I know some of them can mix and skratch better than some vinyl DJs out there. I can operate both, but will stick with vinyl. I think you love your music more if you buy it rather than DLin' songs off of KaZaa and whatever. [ ROOSH ] You're going to get into FINAL SCRATCH? I've haven't played around with it, but it involves computers so it's not for me. Let me know how it goes. I first started spinning with CDs. But like I said, once you go vinyl, you won't go back spinnin' CDs.

no worries mate, i wasn't directing that rant at anyone per se, just to the cd bashers in general. i've used final scratch and it's really cool. it feels just like pressed vinyl, very natural. the only things it's not great for is really fast scratching and back spins. normal scratching is good but if you're really fast then it can have trouble keeping up every now and again. backspins always sound un-natural. cheers.

some of the unatural sound may be due to the lack of certain frequencies. go to meier audio (just put that in the yahoo search bar) and take a look at the analoguer and the psycoacoustical bass enhancer. just e-mail jan at meier-audio@t-online.de . he doesn't make these things yet. but if there's enough people to push him he may finally put them into production

quote:

Originally posted by MERTON some of the unatural sound may be due to the lack of certain frequencies. go to meier audio (just put that in the yahoo search bar) and take a look at the analoguer and the psycoacoustical bass enhancer. just e-mail jan at meier-audio@t-online.de . he doesn't make these things yet. but if there's enough people to push him he may finally put them into production

the backspins sound un-natural because the record is moving too fast for the system/interface to keep up. these products that you mention sound interesting though.

oh... in the end then.. i have to vote for cd (or any disc read by laser).. why? no wear and tear. you just need the right equipment to "alter" the sound.

Burnt CDs versus Wax...



'Nuff said.

All I've got to say is:
Vinyl's kick major ass. The only con is they can only hold about 20 minutes of music a side. But the pro's is that they sounds better and are more fun.

quote:

Originally posted by MERTON oh... in the end then.. i have to vote for cd (or any disc read by laser).. why? no wear and tear. you just need the right equipment to "alter" the sound.

cds DO suffer from wear and tear - even just being in cd wallets they pick up small scratches- also the club cd players wear out the playing surface...

Vinyl! they always have been and always will be. I will never ever DJ with CDs

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