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-- Yet Another Suicide Bombing
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| Originally posted by MrSquirrel The US did export both varieties of the M1, though I believe the only country to buy the M1A2 was the Saudis. If I remember correctly Israel has M1A1s. The M1A2 is the pinnacle of evolution of the main battle tank. MrS |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King That is the point! They INTENDED to KILL if the fatally wounded are shot in the head! They aim at the head and then they die... that the best way to kill someone right? |
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| Originally posted by Yoepus a freak, i just spent 15 min writing an umber cool response to this and then it went into the abbys the minute I clicked submit. Wait I'll do it again latter..... whaa it was soo good too... |
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| Originally posted by occrider Hmmm you appear to be right. However, I don't believe Israel is a procurrer of the US tank. The Israeli Military Industries is actually quite competant, and they manufacture the latest variants of the Merkava there. Interestingly enough, it seems that only Arab countries import the M1 battle tank with Egypt even maintaining a US supported factory to build export variants of the tank! I find that fact to be slightly humorous. http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1A1_Abrams_tank |
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| Originally posted by occrider Whenever I write a long, well thought out response I've adopted the habit of copying it first because I always get so frustrated when TA fucks up and the second time I write it it is generally not as good as the first time. |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King That is the point! They INTENDED to KILL if the fatally wounded are shot in the head! They aim at the head and then they die... that the best way to kill someone right? |
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HEAD INJURIES PHR's analysis of fatal gun shot wounds in Gaza reveals that approximately 50% were to the head. This high proportion of fatal head wounds suggests that given broad rules of engagement, soldiers are specifically aiming at peoples' heads. Since the beginning of the conflict, of the first 1,134 casualties reported in West Bank and Gaza Hospitals, 26% were to the head and neck. Of 339 patients who presented to the emergency room through October 22 in Makassed Hospital, East Jerusalem, there were 25 confirmed bullet wounds to the head and neck of admissions. Four of these injuries were from live ammunition (ammunition fired from handguns, rifles, and machine guns). |
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| Originally posted by Yoepus Actually I'm sorry to correct you occrider, but the tank in my Avatar is a Merkavah. It is the Mark3 (its of it taken in action during Operation Defensive Shield last year), you have a picture of a Mark2 and perhpas there is why you got confused... those two look very different from one another. |
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| Originally posted by occrider Hmmm that's odd. The turret on the tank in your avatar still looks much bigger and broader than what the Mark 3 appears to have. |
Ahh so much for the tanks, back to the matter at hand:
I was looking into head injures...
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| HEAD INJURIES PHR's analysis of fatal gun shot wounds in Gaza reveals that approximately 50% were to the head. This high proportion of fatal head wounds suggests that given broad rules of engagement, soldiers are specifically aiming at peoples' heads. Since the beginning of the conflict, of the first 1,134 casualties reported in West Bank and Gaza Hospitals, 26% were to the head and neck. Of 339 patients who presented to the emergency room through October 22 in Makassed Hospital, East Jerusalem, there were 25 confirmed bullet wounds to the head and neck of admissions. Four of these injuries were from live ammunition (ammunition fired from handguns, rifles, and machine guns). |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King Oh.. but the bullets 'accidently' flew into their skulls. |
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And you beleiving 95-98% of these deaths are accidental is the problem i have. Its basically ALL the deaths. Its so naive that i dont want to even respond. How is more than 1600 palestinian civilian death 95%-98% accidental....give me a break. |
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| So basically you are telling me that tanks have absolutely no near sighted vision, or instead, that they dont have that option built intotheir navigational instruments? |
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| And with respect to that hippee.. Rachel corrie was holding a loud microphone blaring her voice out and while wearing a neon orange jacket in plain view of a bulldozer....but as a response, israel seemed to beleive that the tank "accidentally" threw dirt on her..makiing her camaflouge with the ground, where she was then crushed... |
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| My avatar is in dedication to Mr. Che Guevara....not the cigar he is holding... nice try...but lame indeed. |
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I'm pretty sure that tank isn't a Merkava, since Merkavas have a rather specific design. It does look more like Abrams, although it does have some minor oddities. Besides, I think Abramses were never exported to Israel in the first place. It's really hard to say because all modern tanks look alike, except for Merkava and the russian ones.
It looks to me though that it may be a british Challenger.
Edit: Oops, no, my bad, the bottom part of the turret is different. It's not a Challenger either.
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| Originally posted by occrider Hmmm you appear to be right. However, I don't believe Israel is a procurrer of the US tank. The Israeli Military Industries is actually quite competant, and they manufacture the latest variants of the Merkava there. Interestingly enough, it seems that only Arab countries import the M1 battle tank with Egypt even maintaining a US supported factory to build export variants of the tank! I find that fact to be slightly humorous. http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1A1_Abrams_tank |
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| Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Edit: Oops, no, my bad, the bottom part of the turret is different. It's not a Challenger either. |
addressing tahti;
You sum yourself up quiet nicely in these remarks:
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No, you claimed that the Israeli government was not conducting state sponsored terrorism, where is your backup? |
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| Look at the Israeli government's euphemism for State Sponsored Terrorism - �Targeted Deterrence� targeted implies planning, deterrence is synonymous with intimidation, And what happens when you are targeted? Extrajudicial assassination, an act of aggression... |
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| I guess you are trying to defend regimes like the Likud and Nazi parties |
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| Palestine was a peaceful nation until 1947 |
Hmmmm ... ok I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's a merkava mark 4. Ok let's look at Yoepus's original picture again:
From the picture we can make out two distinct features on the turret. First, it is most certainly broad, broader than the Mark 1-3's such that the turret spans across almost the entire chasis of the tank ... much like the M1. Secondly, the division between the top half and the bottom half of the turret is clearly visible. You can see the slope of the top half along with the slope of the bottom half as they intersect right at the main gun. This is what intially led me to believe it was an M1. Now if we take a look at some Mark 4s:
You can see that it has a similar broadness in the turret and the clearly defined top and bottom slope that intersects along the main battle gun. This would also make sense for the photo that those tanks somewhere in occupied territories are israeli tanks.
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| Originally posted by Yoepus Two lies. There was no Palestinian nation before 1947, and there was no peace in Palestine before 1947 (Beside Israeli independence is in 1948). |
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| Originally posted by Yoepus Ahh so much for the tanks, back to the matter at hand: I was looking into head injures... Of 1,134 they claim 26% are head and neck injuries (does not state these injuriese were caused by Israel.. for all I know this could be simply someone complaining of a headace or neck pain, and does nto give you the numebrs either). Lets do a bit of calculations now. They got 339 patients, they say 25 of these were shot to the head or neck right? We take 25 subtract 4 (as the rest were hit by live fire, assuming it was the point to kill them.. again pointing out that when you use rubber bullets you do not aim to kill, and when you use live fire, that is the purpose). So thats 21. 21 of 339 is 6% good? As for those they did fire with real bullets, they are 4 out of 339 or 1%. I think 1% is an agreeable militant factor, or people that did pose a real threat to the IDF. Now for anyone who has fired a gun knows, 6% going to the head is not an abnormal figure considering circumstances. I am sure if you were to empty 100 rounds at a figure 100 feet away and told to only hit the torso or limbs, 70% of the shots (if your a first time shooter) would not hit the target at all, an experinced shooter might get that reduced to 25% but again, thats non-moving target, without the smoke and fog of war. So you can understand that from the statistics we actually see if anything would say the IDF has some fairly disciplined soldiers that are good shots compared to members of other armed organization. 6% falls into a an allowable margin of inaccuracy that is well below 10%... Exactly, 6% of the time IDF soldiers shot rubber bullets at Palestinians the bullets accidently flew into their skulls. I believe if such 'accidents' were intentional you would see a figure closer to that claimed 26% that was cited or most likely even higher. After all if 6% of the hits were to the head, then 94% of the other hits were to the limbs and torso, like they should be. When such numbers are reversed then I will concede to you that this is indeed no accident. Actually now I think perhaps 1% of Palestinian civilian deaths are not accidental, or perhaps even a smaller percent due to the own examination I have done form the research of PHR. As you know previously I was under a notion of grosser abuse. Ok first of all we don't know how many of the 1600 are indeed 'civilians'. Palestinian militants do not wear uniform or any insignia (in violation of the Geneva convention may I add) to distinguish themselves as combatants. Many times if a militant dressed as a civilian unloads an ak47 at the IDF and is killed, Palestinians close to the scene take the weapon, and so it because a word game and who you believe over who as no evidence remains of the true nature of the individual. Regardless however, as far as I know to date Israel has killed around 400+ clearly agreeable militants (that both sides recongize as such). Know if we still beleive the civilan numbers to be 1600 thats a ratio of 1 to 4, if at 1200, that would be 1 to 3. This cold calculus actually shows us that the Israeli army doing resonable according to the cicrumstances. If for instance we take the statsitcs of WWII, we see that 33% of the deaths were of military men, 67% of civilians. We have to rember though that this figure includes both sides of the the war; meaning that USA forces in Europe are completely military, since the USA was never occupied little to any civilian deaths occured, other nations that were not occupied inflat this number as well. If we were to reduce this statistic to nations that were only occupied it would shoot up to around 1 to 8. Of course you must recall in WWII they had easlily identifiable military targets, and thos military targets did not tend to take refuge behind civilians. These civilian deaths were typically the result of inaccurate fire, and civilians getting got in the crosshairs of war. In the Palestinian areas, you have Israel with more advanced technology yes, but you have militants who hide behind enemies, are disguised and do not present themselves, digging themsleves in amongst large civilian populations. However even if we compare such a ratio with modern war such as that of the Americans in Afghanistan or the Russians in Checnya (or in Afghanistan for that matter) you will find that relative to them the Israeli army is acting very humanly. Under the circumstance one should at least be able to understand and imagine how such a large civilian death toll might arise even under diligent combat. It is not an obscure suggestion, after all Israel is conducting a war in one of the most populated areas on earth, and its inhabitants are overwhelmingly hostile. Yes thats exactly what I am telling you. You see all the pictures of tanks? Try and find the windows on the Israeli tank for me, ok? Look I will agree, IDF should have taken her by force out of there. I do not believe they purposefully killed her (as I initially tended to believe) but are to blame for neglect. This is why I have come to this conclusion: Imagine you are 20ft high in a bulldozer, you can not see what is very close to you, also imagine the noise of a construciton site, the emissions from that machine are much louder then any loudspeaker (which I was not aware at all she was holding...). As far as I know, she was standing infront of a bulldozer preventing it from proceeding further, in such a sence playing 'chicken' with the driver. The driver played this game and continued, he probably thought to himself that by the time she would come close, she would move and would not kill herself, by the time he entered his blindspot she was still there and he continued playing her game of chicken... he won. Ya ya so your a hippie loving commie, that loves the murder and totalianarisim... we've played this game before, and we came to the conclusion ones avatar has no bearing on him. What you prefer I change it to a dove flying with an olive branch in its mouth? will that make what I say more credible to you?? come on stop being childish. (and thats the short version... ) |
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Israel's State Terrorism By Lev Grinberg What is the difference between State terrorism and individual terrorist acts? If we understand this difference we'll understand also the evilness of the US policies in the Middle East and the forthcoming disasters. When Yassir Arafat was put under siege in his offices and kept hostage by the Israeli occupation forces, he was constantly pressed into condemning terror and combatting terrorism. Israel's State terrorism is defined by US officials as "self-defense", while individual suicide bombers are called terrorists. The only "small" difference is that Israeli aggression is the direct responsibility of Ariel Sharon, Benjamin Ben Eliezer, Shimon Peres and Shaul Mofaz, while the individual terrorist acts are done by individuals in despair, usually against Arafat's will. One hour after Arafat declared his support of a cease fire and wished the Jews a Happy Passover feast, a suicide bomber exploded himself in an hotel in Netanya, killing 22 innocent Jews celebrating Passover. Arafat was blamed as responsible for this act, and the present IDF offensive has been justified through this accusation. At the same time, Sharon's responsibility for Israeli war crimes is being completely ignored. Who should be arrested for the targeted killing of almost 100 Palestinians? Who will be sent to jail for the killing of more than 120 Palestinian paramedics? Who will be sentenced for the killing of more than 1,200 Palestinians and for the collective punishment of more than 3,000,000 civilians during the last 18 months? And who will face the International Tribunal for the illegal settlement of occupied Palestinian Lands, and the disobedience of UN decisions for more than 35 years? Suicide bombs killing innocent citizens must be unequivocally condemned; they are immoral acts, and their perpetrators should be sent to jail. But they cannot be compared to State terrorism carried out by the Israeli Government. The former are individual acts of despair of a people that sees no future, vastly ignored by an unfair and distorted international public opinion. The latter are cold and "rational" decisions of a State and a military apparatus of occupation, well equipped, financed and backed by the only superpower in the world. Yet in the public debate, State terrorism and individual suicide bombs are not even considered as comparable cases of terrorism. The State terror and war crimes perpetrated by the Israeli Government are legitimized as "self- defense", while Arafat, even under siege, is demanded to arrest "terrorists". I want to ask: Who will arrest Sharon, the person directly responsible for the orders to kill Palestinians? When is he going to be defined a terrorist too? How long will the world ignore the Palestinian cry that all they want is freedom and independence? When will it stop neglecting the fact that the goal of the Israeli Government is not security, but the continued occupation and subjugation of the Palestinian people? As Israelis in the opposition, we are fighting against our government, but the international support that Sharon receives is constantly jeopardizing our struggle. The whole international public opinion must be reverted, and the UN must deploy intervention forces in order to stop the bloodshed and the imminent deterioration. Israelis and Palestinians desperately need the awakening of the international community's public opinion and a reversal in the global attitude. These are needed both in order to save our lives (literally), and preserve our hope in a better future. Dr. Lev Grinberg is a political sociologist, Director of the Humphrey Institute for Social Research, at Ben Gurion University |
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Israel Practices State Terror And Sharon Expresses His Pride Of Committing War Crimes Against Palestinian Civilians The Palestinian Center for Human Rights, Gaza July 23, 2002 Israeli belligerent occupying forces have committed another war crime against Palestinian civilians late yesterday night, when an Israeli F-16 fighter jet attacked an apartment building in a highly populated area in Gaza City, killing 15 Palestinian civilians, including 9 children. Most of the more than 70 wounded were women and children. According to information obtained by PCHR, among those killed were two women and their five children, a father and his child, and Sheikh Salah Shehada, his wife, daughter and bodyguard. Statements made by the Israeli occupying forces, asserted that the purpose of the attack was the assassination of Hamas leader, Sheikh Salah Mustafa Shehada, 49, from Beit Hanoun. At approximately 23:55 on Monday, 22 July 2002, an Israeli F-16 fighter jet launched a missile at a 150-square-meter, two-story apartment building located in the densely populated al-Daraj neighborhood in Gaza city. Sheikh Salah Shehada, who is wanted by the Israeli occupying forces, and his family were living on the upper floor of the building. The missile directly hit the apartment building, totally destroying it and one other house. Four other homes sustained serious damage. Fifteen Palestinian civilians, including 9 children, the youngest of whom was only 2-months-old, were killed. Two of the wounded are in a critical condition. Those killed were: - Iman Hassan Matar, 27, killed together with her 3 children: - Ra'ed Matar, 1� ; - Mohammed Ra'ed Matar, 4; - Diana Ra'ed Matar, 5; - Muna Fahmi al-Hweiti, 30, killed together with her 2 children: - Subhi Mahmoud al-Hweiti, 4� ; - Mohammed Mahmoud al-Hweiti, 6; - Diana Rami Matar, 2 months; - Alaa' Mohammed Matar, 11; - Mohammed Mahmoud al-Shawa, 40, killed together with his child: - Ahmed Mohammed al-Shawa, 4; and - Sheikh Salah Mustafa Shehada, 49; - Leila Safira, 45, his wife; - Iman Salah Shehada, 15, his daughter; and - Zaher Nassar, 37, his bodyguard. This was the second time in one week that the Israeli occupying forces have used F-16 fighter jets to attack homes in highly populated areas in the Gaza Strip, in a bid to assassinate individual Palestinian activists. The Israeli forces have stepped up the excessive and disproportionate use of force once again. These latest attacks have set a grave precedent. On 14 July 2002, an Israeli F-16 fighter jet attacked a 3-story house in Khan Yunis, in an attempt to assassinate one of its residents wanted by the Israeli occupying forces. He survived the assassination attempt but the house was destroyed. PCHR once again expresses its grave concern about Israel's ongoing and escalating violations of international human rights and humanitarian law against Palestinian civilians, including war crimes. PCHR considers that the failure of the High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention to take concrete steps to stop these crimes serves only to encourage Israel and its occupying forces to commit more war crimes and other violations against Palestinian civilians and their property. The cover provided for Israel by the USA, the US deliberate obstruction of the enforcement of the international humanitarian law, the conspiracy of silence by European countries towards war crimes committed against Palestinian civilians, have all effectively put Israel above international law, allowing it to act with total impunity. PCHR reminds the High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention of: 1. Their obligation under Article 1 of the Convention to ensure respect for the convention in all circumstances; and 2. Their obligation under Article 146 of the Convention to search for and to prosecute those responsible for grave breaches, namely war crimes, of the Convention. |
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TARGETING OR LIQUIDATING PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS, WHETHER BY INDIVIDUAL SNIPER FIRE, BOMBINGS, SUMMARY EXECUTIONS OR WELL-ORCHESTRATED MASSACRES IS A FUNDAMENTAL WELL-DOCUMENTED PART OF THE ISRAELI PROGRAM Well-Orchestrated Killings and Mamings The bias of the American press is so heavy and the Israeli disinformation campaign so effective that if one relies on only US news sources one might actually imagine that what is going on in the Occupied Territories is the consequence of Palestinian terrorists killing Israeli civilians and Israel trying to protect itself rather than the systematic terrorizing, brutalizing, and liquidating of the Palestinian people by Israel. When in some week 8 Israelis are killed by a Palestinian radical it is always news, and the Israelis and American press are always 'outraged', but the during the same week when there are that many unarmed Palestinian civilians, half children, murdered by the Israeli military every day, and way more permanently blinded, mamed or terrorized as they watch their families brutilized it hardly makes the news at all. Not Just 'Collateral Damage' If the killing, maming, and torturing of civilians were just 'collateral' damage it would be bad enough, but the brutal targeting of civilians is part of an ongoing Israeli campaign of terror and ethnic cleansing that the Israeli power structure has developed with years of practice. If Ariel Sharon escapes the present indictment in the Belgian Courts for war crimes following the Sabra and Shatila massacre in Lebanon, it will only be by a very slim and temporary technicality. If the Hague is to mean anything at all then it is only a matter off time before Sharon will have to face charges there, but not only for Sabra and Shatila, but for the massacre at Qiby and, in fact, almost any number of others that are still going on with regularity in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. As the drum beat to indict the likes of Sharon, Peres, Barak, Netanyahu, and other collaborators rightfully increases, the refusal of an increasing number of Israeli IDF troops to participate in the atrocities is encouraging. With Palestinians being killed, tortured, mamed, and degraded to subhum levels every day, however. the luxury of time does not exist. This is not 'collateral damage'. Every major human rights group has documented the intentional targeting of unarmed Palestinian children by Israeli sniper fire as a ongoing part of the Israeli campaign. Kamal was not on any list of terrorists before a bullet wrecked his 20-year-old face. In all likelihood he was sleeping. Up to nine may have died in that ambush in Beit Rima launched without warning by a massively superior force of 'elite combat troops', many sleeping. On their way back the Israeli soldiers their faces blacked for night fighting hugged and cheered each other. "We killed some Arab terrorists" they told us. A History of Masscres. Ariel Sharon (see also additional key bios here) has played a leading role in Israel's history of brutal massacres for over thirty years. He was commander of the infamous "Unit 101" whose ethnic cleansing of entire villages, and ruthless excursions into defenseless refugee camps where the young, the old, and the helpless were butchered are well recorded pieces of history. Examples include the massacre committed on the refugee camp of El-Bureig in 1953, where "bombs were thrown through the windows of huts in which the refugees were sleeping, as they fled, they were attacked with small arms and automatic weapons". The massacre at Qibya, which followed later that year where the goal was to "blow up houses and inflict heavy casualties on its inhabitants" is another example. The next morning Sharon's unit had reduced the town "to rubble: forty-five houses had been blown up, and sixty-nine civilians two thirds of them women and children, had been killed." A UN report concluded the villagers had been forced by heavy gunfire to stay inside while their homes were blown up ofer them. Bulldozing Homes and Beating Children: 'Pacifying' the 'terrorists' in Gaza in the 70's. Defying UN Security Council resolution 242 and refusing to withdraw its troops from the Occupied Territories after their 1967 invasion, Israel launched operations to further entrench itself in and subdue the Gaza strip in the 1970s. Sharon, now head of the IDF's Southern Command, took in bulldozers and within a day, under heavy armed protection, had flattened hundreds of homes, beating those, including children who begged for them to stop or stood in their way. Many of the now homeless refugees where then packed into trucks and exiled to the heart of the Sinae Desert. This was not an isolated incident. IDF forces under Sharon's command destroyed some 2,000 homes displacing 16,000 in August of 1971alone. All of these acts of terrosim and ethnic cleansing constitute grave war crimes and crimes against humanity under the Geneva Conventions, and are outine procedures in the Occupied Territories today where Palestinian homes are regularly bulldozed to rubble while their inhabitants if they try and protest are beaten or shot in front of their neighbors and families. Civilian Killings in Lebanon. 1982 marked the massive Israeli assault on Lebanon that ended up costing some 20,000 Palestinian and Lebanese lives, saw the operation of the brutal Khiam torture center, where Israeli continued to work on its techniqus of the most brutal and dehumanizing forms of torture, including of women and children, and the Sabra and Shatila regugee camp massacres in which some thousands of defenseless Palestinian refugees, mostly women children and the elderly were brutalized, raped, tortured and murdered, and for which Sharon is now trying avoid indictment for as a war criminal in Belgium. We condemn "Israel's responsibility for the large-scale massacre in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps, which constituted an act of genocide" UN Commission on Human Rights (1985) The Ongoing Massacres and Ethnic Cleansing in the Occupied Territories. As the Palestinians have time and time again asked for international observers and peacekeepers to protect them from the Israeli onslaught, so too has the United States at key junctures used its veto in the Security Council of the UN to vote the request down thus enabling the atrocities to continue. What is more it is with US weapons and US funding it is done. Israeli supremicists believe the Geneva Conventions don't apply to them, and because the US makes it possible for Israel to hold this view, the war crimes and butchering continue. In this racist view, Israelis are above the law while Palestinians are beneath it. When the moronic 'pundits' on TV ask "why do they hate us?". It's about the the human rigthts stupid. It's about the hypopcrisy of fighting a 'war on terror' and running protection for Israeli the ongoing genocide of Israeli state terrorism. Summary street executions are another form of criminal killing and terror inflicted on the Palestinan people Brutal Israeli Massacres and Acts of Terror Continue Today Unabated. As the Matrix of Terror tightens around the Palestinians necks the brutality becomes that much more regular, easy to implement, and perform with utter impunity. The Beit Rima massacre on October24, 2001 (above) is, unfortunately, a typical case of a small village massacre. In the US media, if mentioned at all, these get a sentence or two saying something like some number of Palestinians were killed during a 'search for terrorists' or something like that. The general pattern both of the disinformation and the massacres are the same. In the typical massacre during the early morning hours an advance team of 'elite forces' are sent into a town to shoot any Palestinian police that are about so that the rest of the forces can move in unobstructed. In Beit Rima the police, sleeping outside their barracks because Israel bombs Palestinian police buildings, were almost all shot in their sleep. Helicopter gunships then appear firing on targets from the sky, and tanks roll into town wrecking infrastructure, crushing cars, and knocking over power lines to cut off the town's electricity. While the massacre goes on IDF forces are deployed on the edges of town to keep medical emergency vehicles and media away. The former increases the terror, suffering, and death as people are intentionally left to bleed to death on the ground in front of family, including children, and neighbors who are helpless to do anything. Keeping the media away minimizes the number of witnesses to the atrocities (of just the kind that has brought Milosovic before the Hague). The typical 'incursion' continues as homes and other buildings are demolished, civilians, including children are killed, mamed, or beaten in front of family members, and many rounded up and taken away for 'interrogation', typically meaning tortured with some number never returning. During the one short incursion into Beit Rima at least 10 Palestinians were killed Ambulances and emergency medical help are kept out of Beit Rima during the massacre so that the wounded Palestinians are left to bleed to death on the ground. outright, dozens wounded, mamed, and or beaten, and nearly 50 taken away in hoods, and 'interrogated' through the night and into the next day without food or water many never to return. Houses were blown up and personal property and infrastructure trashed and reduced to rubble. Israeli Snipers: The Killing and Maming of Children: The regular practice of Israeli snipers directly targeting children has been documented over and over again by human rights groups as well as observers for the Unitied Nations. Chris Hedges, former Mideast Bureau Chief for the NY Times writing in Harper's , exposed to death squads in El Salvador and Guatamala, and children killed by Serb snipers wrote in horror of the ruthlessness of the Israeli marksmen "I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport. The boys, most no more than ten or eleven years old, scatter" he writes, "running clumsily across the heavy sand....Later, in the hospital, I will see the destruction: the stomachs ripped out, the gaping holes in limbs and torsos." IDF sniper in Beit Rima zeroes in on target The Firing of Missiles Into Civilian Areas Assure the Killing of Civilians "The Israeli Airforce killed eight people, including two children and two journalists, and wounded 15 others including a human rights defender, as they shot two missiles from an Apache helicopter against Nablus-based Palestinian Centre for Information" The Refugee Camp Massacres of March, 2002 (March 7, 2002) IDF blocks UN delivery of urgently needed medicine, food, blankets, and tents to Jenin Camp (March 14, 2002)"Ramallah is now under complete occupation, 120 tanks are present on the streets, and both helicopters and tanks are bombarding different neighbourhoods with missiles. Two hospitals, the Ramallah Hospital and Ramallah Maternity Hospital, have been fired upon by Israeli troops....Additionally the Israeli army is preventing access to medical care for the sick and wounded, by forbiddingtheir movement to hospital, and also by refusing medical teams access to them for treatment at the scene." more (March 14,2002) "Physicians for Human Rights demands that Israel and its security forces respect medical neutrality and stop attacks on health personnel and health facilities." During these incursions into refugee camps IDF forces damaged 22 UN schools, four UN health clinics, two UN ambulances, and four UN camp service centers. 141 refugee homes were destroyed adding to the 5,000 refugees who have had their homes bulldozed by the IDF since September 2000 more |
In regard to Yoepus' Post
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| Now under pressure you try and revert your buredn on me. I have proved Israel is not a state sponsorer of terrorism, since I simply says its violent policies are not directed to intimidate. And yes I can make the case, I can bring you many declerations from Israel and so forth.. but I won't I've done that before, ppl here who've been longer on the board know that. I won't do it because, you will simply ignore it. It would be wise of you to take your own advice and open up, instead of trying to make me into some horrid evil person that cares nothing about humanity or what is good. |
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| Measures taken by a state or an alliance of states to prevent hostile action by another state. |
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| I would recommend you do not pursue your career in english further. |
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| Intimidation is not a synonym with deterrence |
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| You are again making synonyms out of nothing, why do you go about connecting the Likud and Nazi parties, can you tell me who has the Likud commited genocide against? |
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| you go blur out that Israel is a facist state that commits genocide? Go ahead, try and make that case.. I dare you. |
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| You can't even make a simple case proving Israel as a terrorist |
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| Are you so out of expressive ideas that you have to retort to this type of intimidation. |
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| From a person claiming to be of intelligence and respect all I can say is I am disappointed. |
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| You have just gotten to new lows, and I find that your knowledge about the middle east situation is perhaps no better then skimming a few headlines, even cyrus is more informed, and makes stronger points then you, at least he knows the history. |
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| Two lies. There was no Palestinian nation before 1947, and there was no peace in Palestine before 1947 (Beside Israeli independence is in 1948). |
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| But leave that be, I've suffered your personal attacks and ignorance long enough. |
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| Originally posted by tathi I would substitute your connotation of deterrence with detergence: The quality of having cleansing power |
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| I am not pursuing a career in English and i suggest you give up your career in politics if you don't adhere to my final lesson: Politicians create prevarications, they do not believe in them. |
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I would recommend you throw out your thesaurus |
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You are right, i cannot make a simple case proving that the Israeli government are sponsoring terrorism, the case i made was very complex, and you could not understand it, people are always afraid of what they cannot understand. |
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| I like to call this type of intimidation �deterrence� |
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| Hahaha, you think everything you watch on CNN and read on honestreporting is true? If my knowledge of middle eastern history is medicore, why have I owned every one of your posts since page two? |
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Ahh, is this the first hole you have found in my argument? Good work for finding it, if you can remember, i stated earlier in this thread when people here were claiming that only Arabs were capable of terrorism, that Palestine was under the control of the British mandate in 1947. The only reason you view this as a hole in my argument is because I couldn't be bothered elaborating. |
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And as for the lack of peace in Palestine before 1947, I'd like to know how big refugee camps were back then? |
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Who called me heartless earlier on in this thread for defending human rights? |
Hahahaha, oh please thats to much
this is your funniest post yet, since you failed your attempts at a career in politics why don't you consider being a monologist?
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| Was that supposed to be funny, or did it just make you look dumb? |
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| Well I guess you'll be happy to know I have already given up my career in politics, and I know 'your' final lesson much ahead of time. |
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| I would recommend you prove to me you actually have one. |
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| No you might think you made a complex case, but you made no case at all. Cyrus on the other hand has done a wonderful job of presenting Israel as a state supporter of terrorism, he has made numerous simple cases for it, that were easily understood and readable by many. |
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| I'd like to call you a psychologists. |
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| Ahh yes dellusions of grandur, better get that psychologist to you right quick. |
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| Refugee camps were about a million strong in Cyprus, why? Tell me though.. how many Palestinians were there in "biblical" Israel before 1947? |
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| I couldn't bother elaborating on many of my points. This is not the first hole I have found, this is simply the first hole I have found that I have bothered to elaborate on because it shows your ignorance and or bias in the situation to present things in such view, even if for summary. I would have never dared to make such a statement, or its inverse even in if brief. |
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| I think your confusing me with you, and you with me. |
Now that I look at the pictures, it does seem most likely for the tank to be Merkava Mk4 with additional armor plating. Notice the vertical slit on our right of the main gun. I've seen only Merkavas have this. But the additional armor platings are not exclusive to the Merkava, the french Leclerc also has that option.
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| Originally posted by tathi Hahahaha, oh please thats to much this is your funniest post yet, since you failed your attempts at a career in politics why don't you consider being a monologist? I thought it was a clever play on words, im surprised you understood it Wow, a clairvoyant, i hope you can read me my fortune the next time the circus comes to town :P That was a low blow... im cut Well done to Cyrus, his case just backs mine up further for those who couldn't understand it or refused to believe it the first time reading it. I am my own psychologist, its called introspection I can't help my delusions of granduer if you are my competition Hahaha, the bible, it contains more bullshit than honestreporting.com Hahahaha *sure* Nope, reread the thread, i have a very good memory Yoepus ask your psychiatrist for some Valium, it will help you relax every time i own you on this forum |
hehehe
i do tend to be a little condescending with people like Yoepus
it is the internet, and i really don't care what any of you think about me, i just laugh and have some fun :P
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| Originally posted by tathi hehehe i do tend to be a little condescending with people like Yoepus it is the internet, and i really don't care what any of you think about me, i just laugh and have some fun :P |
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| Originally posted by occrider I am so smart! I am so smart! SMRT! |
The Israeli government's startling announcement that the Palestinian perpetrators of the (Sept. 9) dual terror attacks in Tsrifin (7 murdered, 30 wounded) and Jerusalem's Caf�� Hillel (8 murdered, 50 wounded) were both, just six months ago, released from administrative detention in an Israeli prison.
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