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-- Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11?
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| Originally posted by Spike your mom is the pinnacle of internet polls fuckhead lolloloneoneoneoneone11111!!!!1111 o,< |
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| Originally posted by Spike your mom is the pinnacle of internet polls fuckhead lolloloneoneoneoneone11111!!!!1111 o,< |
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| Originally posted by colonelcrisp wow..... i mean WOW..... ^^this is the direct product of intelligent design theory being taught in schools.... it seems to have developed a form of post natal retardation..... |
Someone seems to be doing in the trolls in the same way they litter the threads on this board.
Please do not feed them anymore, reserve the bandwidth for people with common sense.
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| Originally posted by culorut Someone seems to be doing in the trolls in the same way they litter the threads on this board. |
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| Originally posted by colonelcrisp english mother ******. DO YOU SPEAK IT? |
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| Originally posted by Spike im sorry what |
I can't believe people still believe this stuff. Wow.
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| Originally posted by andrewyates I can't believe people still believe this stuff. Wow. |
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| Originally posted by culorut Yes it is incredible, more people believe in it compared to the bullshit official story. |
I think 50 years from now, we will be shocked at what we may find out about September 11, 2001. Right now, it's just too soon. Information is impossible to delete. Whatever the truth is, it will come out, and until then, nobody knows what the fuck they're talking about. No one knows the truth. That enough is a shame.
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| Originally posted by culorut Yes it is incredible, more people believe in it compared to the bullshit official story. |
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| Originally posted by Krypton I think 50 years from now, we will be shocked at what we may find out about September 11, 2001. Right now, it's just too soon. Information is impossible to delete. Whatever the truth is, it will come out, and until then, nobody knows what the fuck they're talking about. No one knows the truth. That enough is a shame. |
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN and which important details are we still missing? |
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| Originally posted by Krypton Why were Bin Laden family associates and Saudi nationals allowed to fly after the order was given to ground all flights? |
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| Originally posted by Krypton The Bush Family is in bed with big oil and Saudi Arabia. I think we should forget about the speculative stuff the truth movement talks about, and dig deeper into the relationship between the Bushs, Bin Ladens, and Saudis. Something is fucked up about it, and I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!! |
For those not in the know, this is a summary of Judicial Watch investigations...
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| At least 13 relatives of Osama bin Laden, accompanied by bodyguards and associates, were allowed to leave the United States on a chartered flight eight days after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, according to a passenger manifest released on July 21, 2004.[16] The passenger list was made public by Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ), who obtained the manifest from officials at Boston's Logan International Airport. Among the passengers with the bin Laden surname were Omar Awad bin Laden, who had lived with OBL nephew Abdallah Osama bin Laden who was involved in forming the U.S. branch of the World Assembly of Muslim Youth in Alexandria, and Shafig bin Laden, a half brother of OBL who was reportedly attending the annual investor conference of the Carlyle Group Also on board were Akberali Moawalla, an official with the investment company run by Yeslam bin Laden, another of Osama bin Laden's half brothers. Records show that a passenger, Kholoud Kurdi, lived in Northern Virginia with a bin Laden relative. The bin Laden flight has received fresh publicity because it was a topic in Michael Moore's anti-Bush documentary, "Fahrenheit 9/11." In mid-July 2007 Judicial Watch released new documents from the FBI related to the "expeditious departure" of Saudi nationals, including members of the bin Laden family, from the United States following the 9/11 attacks. According to one of the formerly confidential FBI documents, dated September 21, 2001, terrorist Osama bin Laden may have chartered one of the Saudi flights. This news garnered international headlines. The document specifically states: "ON 9/19/01, A 727 PLANE LEFT LAX, RYAN FLT #441 TO ORLANDO, FL W/ETA (estimated time of arrival) OF 4-5PM. THE PLANE WAS CHARTERED EITHER BY THE SAUDI ARABIAN ROYAL FAMILY OR OSAMA BIN LADEN...THE LA FBI SEARCHED THE PLANE [REDACTED] LUGGAGE, OF WHICH NOTHING UNUSUAL WAS FOUND." Even considering a possible direct bin Laden link to the flight, it was allowed to depart the United States after making four stops to pick up passengers, ultimately landing in Paris where all passengers disembarked on September 20, 2001, according to the document. Overall, the FBI documents uncovered by Judicial Watch include details of the six flights between September 14 and September 24 that evacuated Saudi royals and bin Laden family members. The documents also contain brief interview summaries and occasional notes from intelligence analysts concerning the cursory screening performed prior to the departures. Only 4 of 100 passengers on three Saudi flights leaving Las Vegas between September 19 and September 24 were questioned by agents. The documents contain numerous errors and inconsistencies. On one document the FBI claims to have interviewed 20 of 23 passengers on the Ryan International Airlines flight (commonly referred to as the "Bin Laden Family Flight"). On another document, however, the FBI claims to have interviewed 15 of 22 passengers on the same flight. Judicial Watch lawyers obtained a court order from U.S. District Court Judge Richard W. Roberts requiring the FBI to resubmit "proper disclosures" to the Court and Judicial Watch. The judge had previously criticized the adequacy of redaction descriptions, the validity of exemption claims, and other errors in the FBI's disclosures. The FBI had previously redacted Osama bin Laden's name from the records in order "to protect privacy interests." |
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN FBI checked those leaving and they were not considered a security risk, they were rushed out of the country to avoid reprisals because every man and his dog (including me) knew who the number 1 suspect had to be. |
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| why? what do you really expect to find by such an investigation? that the bush family has business ties to oil? who cares? |
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| what should be under the microscope is the lack of pressure the US (and others) put on saudi arabia to democratise and sufferagate (is that even a word, haha?). |
If any country deserves a good invasion, it's those Saudi terrorist POS which the Bush family is wacking off every night..
i didnt know that OBL allegedly chartered that flight, if that is actually true its pretty retarded. why osama would have flown his relatives out after the attacks instead of before is a bit curious though.
unless someone has evidence that the family had committed a crime though they should be allowed to go where they wish, when they wish. guilt by association doesn't work for me, especially given how large (and often estranged) his family is.
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were allowed to leave the country during a no-fly decree |
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| how on earth do you come to that assumption? if that were the case there would be a new investigation |
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| Originally posted by celestial thug lol, there never was a first one. not one that would have passed for an investigation anywhere in the world but in US. |
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| Originally posted by celestial thug Besides i think you owe it to the rest of us to take this up again in an unbiased manner |
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| Originally posted by celestial thug and by people entirely disconnected to the "establishment", |
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| Originally posted by celestial thug so far we have spend billions of our own money on your little quagmire there. |
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| Originally posted by celestial thug I think it would be nice to know why im paying all that money actually, because the "official" story has got to be the most fringe foilhatter conspiracy theory i have ever heard, and then i dont give shit what those people who did an "investigation" came up with because even our press deemed it "biased at best", and if there are somebody that are "biased at best" it is our press, they along with our prime minister have their head stuck all the way up Bush'es ass! |
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| haha, and yet its still the most exhaustive examination currently published by anyone in the world. the other side of the fence hasn't presented a single accurate fact that comes even remotely close to proving the retarded assumptions involved in virtually every 911 conspiracy theory. |
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| and i have yet to see a single coherent rationalisation (or a generalised A-Z if you will) of how things supposedly went down on that day. |
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| US government orchestration of the attacks" load of intellectually-insulting bollocks. |
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| hahaha. but the problem with people like you is that everything that doesn't come from sites like prison planet et al is considered part of the "establishment". |
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| fact is, if there was anything to the immensely naive allegations made by troofers, there are plenty of your so-called "establishment" members that would have destroyed the bush administration with the evidence. |
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| what's even more ridiculous, is this idea that the bush administration is all-powerful and influences say, every single structural engineer around the whole fucking globe. its the deeply stupid and naive concepts parroted by the half-informed that just bakes my noodle. |
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| "my"? what the fuck are you talking about? what does this have to do with me? |
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| that's just the ranting of someone whose understanding of the world borders on the juvenile. |
im not about to get bogged down with yet another idiot from the tinfoil hat brigade. i have enough of my own already. someone else can have celestial.
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| Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN im not about to get bogged down with yet another idiot from the tinfoil hat brigade. i have enough of my own already. someone else can have celestial. |
Question:
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| Originally posted by celestial thug how does a faculty work, do you know? Where is the main source of information from, the info that gets to be spread on that particular faculty? Do you really belive that every single engineer makes the same tests over and over? If that is the case, then quite obviously, youre not one of those "in the know" |
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| They used the same information that everyone else had access to. |
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| Originally posted by celestial thug end of sentence... and what they altso have that everyone else has is brain power, man power, all kinds of power in fact all they have that most dont, is pieces of paper that often only mean that they were able to parrot back a canon in a satisfying way. If you get a doctorate you have to add directly to your field of expertise, thus some level of "figuring it out" are required by people with doctor degrees, but most papers from a faculty only shows that youre a great parrot. And if that is credentials to you, well...it explains a lot right there! |
Government-Funded Investigators Accused Of WTC Cover-Up
American Society of Civil Engineers lied about inability of skyscrapers to withstand airliner impacts
The American Society of Civil Engineers - an organization that was funded by FEMA to investigate the collapse of the twin towers on 9/11 - has been accused of engaging in a cover-up to protect the government, with critics charging the organization falsified conclusions that skyscrapers could not withstand getting hit by airplanes.
The group has been forced to convene an investigative panel which could lead to a suspension in government funding.
The Federal Emergency Management Agency paid the group about $257,000 to investigate the World Trade Center collapse and their report was released in 2002.
In an attempt to explain away the complete implosion of the twin towers shortly after the planes hit, the study concluded that skyscrapers were not designed to withstand jetliner impacts, a claim completely disproved by historical studies and contemporary investigations.
"Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, a structural engineer and forensics expert, contends his computer simulations disprove the society's findings that skyscrapers could not be designed to withstand the impact of a jetliner," reports the Associated Press.
"Astaneh-Asl, who received money from the National Science Foundation to investigate the collapse, insisted most New York skyscrapers built with traditional designs would survive such an impact and prevent the kind of fires that brought down the twin towers."
The group are also under scrutiny for their investigation of the failure of New Orleans' levees during Hurricane Katrina.
Raymond Seed, a levee expert at the University of California, Berkeley, "accused the engineering society and the Army Corps of collusion, writing an Oct. 20 letter alleging that the two organizations worked together "to promulgate misleading studies and statements, to subvert appropriate independent investigations ... to literally attempt to change some of the critical apparent answers regarding lessons to be learned."
As we reported last year, architectural drawings of the World Trade Center that prove beyond any doubt that the official reports into the collapse of the towers misrepresented their construction were used by the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) during their study, but not before they had signed legal documents which bound them to secrecy and demanded that they never use the information against the buildings' owners as part of a lawsuit.
The detailed architectural drawings make clear what official reports have apparently attempted to hide: that the Twin Towers had massive core columns, and those columns ran most of the height of each Tower before transitioning to columns with smaller cross-sections. These facts were buried in the FEMA-funded ASCE report and contradictory conclusions were offered despite the fact that the group had access to the diagrams.
Numerous different World Trade Center designers and construction specialists are on record as having ruled out the possibility that multiple commercial jetliner impacts could bring the towers down. Such comments were made on a regular basis ever since the towers were first conceived and built.
A February 3, 1964 white paper which was written during the design phase of the towers stated, "The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner (Boeing 707 DC 8) traveling at 600 miles per hour. Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact."
During a 1984-85 Office of Special Planning study into the vulnerability of the WTC to a terrorist attack, Leslie Robertson, one of the two original structural engineers for the World Trade Center, assured investigators that whether the towers suffered a bomb attack or were hit by an airplane, there was "little likelihood of a collapse no matter how the building was attacked."
A February 27 1993 Seattle Times article entitled Twin Towers Engineered To Withstand Jet Collision quotes John Skilling, head structural engineer for the WTC.
"We looked at every possible thing we could think of that could happen to the buildings, even to the extent of an airplane hitting the side," said Skilling.
"Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed," he said. "The building structure would still be there."
In a telling afterthought, Skilling said that the only way the building could be brought down was by means of well-placed explosives rigged by top experts.
"I would imagine that if you took the top expert in that type of work and gave him the assignment of bringing these buildings down with explosives, I would bet that he could do it," he said.
In 2001, Leslie Robertson again stated, "The twin towers were in fact the first structures outside the military and nuclear industries designed to resist the impact of a jet airplane."
"I designed it for a 707 to smash into it," he told a conference in Frankfurt Germany.
Also in early 2001, Frank A. Demartini, on-site construction manager for the World Trade Center, said on camera, "The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door -- this intense grid -- and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting."
As investigators have pointed out, immediately after 9/11 Leslie Robertson refused to discuss the collapse of the buildings with the media but he later recanted and agreed with NIST's conclusions - completely contradicting his previous statements and exhaustive studies carried out since the 60's about the towers' ability to withstand jetliner impacts.
Allegations of cover-up directed at The American Society of Civil Engineers are just the latest chapter in a series of hammer blows for the credibility of the official 9/11 story, arriving on the back of last month's expos� of 9/11 Commission executive director Philip Zelikow's ties to the White House and his efforts to shield the Bush administration from responsibility for the terror attack.
http://www.911blogger.com/node/14533
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