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-- Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11?
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quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN im at a complete loss to understand what cretinrot is banging on about re the number of people on the planes.

It's another "coincidence" that just so happened on 9/11. Someone obviously cannot read between the lines.

James Moore, co-author of "Bush's Brain" and "The Architect," has no doubt "that Karl [Rove] was running the 9-11 Commission"


Last Sunday, on "Live from the Left Coast" on KPFK in Los Angeles, Ian Masters had on James Moore the co-author of "Bush's Brain: How Karl Rove Made George W. Bush Presidential" and, more recently, "The Architect: Karl Rove and the Dream of Absolute Power."

I decided to call up and draw out the connections among the allegations made in Philip Shenon's book "The Commission," and the follow up by Philly 9-11 Truth (see: Karl Rove Is Questioned About His Involvement With the 9/11 Commission by Philly 9/11 Truth )

The show recording is here: http://www.ianmasters.org/left_coast.html -under March 30th, 2008- My question is at the 41:10 mark.

Me: "...I think that this is a very crucial sort-of connection for Karl Rove, because that Commission was highly manipulated and, if it was manipulated and it was a cover-up, then, under Article III Section 3 of the Constitution, I think we can consider it a treasonous cover-up."

James Moore: "I don't have any doubt that Karl was running the 9-11 Commission. And, obviously, the people who were the key people on that, Jeremy, were appointed by the Bush administration, were beholden to the Bush administration, obviously there were some Democrats on there. But the people in charge, the people who were issuing and writing the reports and saying "let's look at this evidence and let's not look at this evidence," were people who reported to Karl."

Another caller, at about 50:15, asks: "To the degree, as was pointed out, the 9-11 Commission was basically answering to Karl Rove, doesn't that, again, cause us to want to look more deeply at what the hell were they covering up?"

Moore responds: "Well it certainly should. I want to know. You know, I don't buy into the conspiracy theories obviously and I don't think most folks do. But the more the 9-11 Commission covers up and redacts information about Saudi Arabia and the money for these terrorist groups and saying it's going to harm our relationship with an important ally, the more that the 9-11 Commission covers up, just as the more people the Warren Commission failed to interview in the Kennedy assassination, the more it gives life to conspiracy theory and urban myth. And ultimately the truth can come up and whack us upside the head and we don't believe it anymore. So, you know the 9-11 Commission is doing America a great disservice. If there is anything that has sustained our democracy, it's been the fact that we hang our dirty laundry out in the air for everybody to see and then we decide that it's dirty and we go clean it. And we're not doing that in this process."

Then Ian Masters says: "Well it's a no-brainer to say that the 9-11 Commission failed. I think everybody knows that And including the two heads of the 9-11 Commission- they came out subsequent to its publication and said "we were lied to by the Department of Defense and by the FAA" and that the full story's not being told. So, I mean to take that obvious point and then to turn that into that it was, you know, all that other stuff they talk about is just surreal."

What is really surreal that these two supposed intellectuals, who have probably not even looked at the full array of facts about the most crucial event of the 21st century, cling to their state-sponsored myth about OBL+KSM+19 while breezily admitting the true story is being covered up, potentially in a treasonous manner. What then do you think IS being covered up Mr. Masters? Incompetence? Pakistani funding of the hijackers? Is that why the two Israeli operatives caught at the Mexican Parliament with Glock 9mm's, grenades and other explosives, had Pakistani passports. Silly Pakistanis, imitating Israelis again while attempting to frame themselves.

Again, see:
Speaking with Michael Medved about 10/10, 9/11 and the Involvement of the Deep Israeli State
and
Medved hypocritically blind to Israeli false-flag terrorism: Says 10-10-01 terror attempt is "bogus story," "never happened"

I'm starting to get tired of pussyfooting around the question of cover-up and new investigations. I'm going to start laying it out as I see it with facts that back it up. To me, it looks like 9-11 was a false-flag psyop sponsored by treasonous criminals in the US government, operationally conducted by Israeli covert operatives. And I'm going to just start saying it and seeing how people react on the radio and in some truthsquads.

Obviously, Mr. Masters, and most of his guests, still need schooling on the facts of 9-11- you know, those stubborn things. It is usually a pretty good show that Masters hosts on Sunday morning on KPFK ( www.kpfk.org ) from 11am-1pm PST (818-985-5735). He ordinarily takes calls towards the last half of the second hour "Live from the Left Coast." Remind him that, as Aldous Huxley remarked, "facts don't cease to exist because they are ignored."

You can also go hear the rest of the taped dialogue with Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, played on last week's show, where I was able finally, after Masters interrupted me, to ask him this question about supporting a new 9-11 Commission:



Interestingly, and I'm no conspiracy theorist you know, my question was one of two that were unluckily cut out because of sound problems. Honestly though, I heard the recording beginning to skip. Listen to the end where Wilkerson identifies 6 people who he thinks can be prosecuted, including John Yoo, David Addington and Douglas Feith. Interesting that he completely leaves out the P and VP. Treason, as I have said before, is so like whatever these days in DC huh?!

quote:

Originally posted by culorut I just do not find mocking the lives of 3000 innocent people funny, no matter how cool you and some others might think it might be.

You really didn't get the joke, did you?

quote:

Originally posted by Lira You really didn't get the joke, did you?

I can't speak for anyone but myself but I don't think that you're going to find too many of us joking in this thread.

It's finally catching on

It's good to see someone's local news channel actually talking about it

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X I can't speak for anyone but myself but I don't think that you're going to find too many of us joking in this thread.

The city where i live lost 20+ people on 9/11 (including some i know), i went to school in NYC, i work in NYC, and i found that video funny. what's more insulting to people who lived through the situation is all the conspiracy theories.

The official conspiracy theory is a farce

I think it's time to start setting the record straight because there are a lot of scumbags out there who would rather argue from ignorance over this whole thing.



July 9, 2003: �Jersey Girls� Lambast Zelikow over Author�s Testimony Linking 9/11 to Iraqi Government

While some find neoconservative author Laurie Mylroie�s testimony before the 9/11 Commission of a terrorist conspiracy between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda to be compelling (see July 9, 2003), others do not. One group that is not convinced is the so-called �Jersey Girls,� the group of widows who lost their husbands in the 9/11 attacks and then worked to force the Bush administration to create the Commission (see March 31, 2003). They lambast Commission director Philip Zelikow for allowing Mylroie to testify. �Jersey Girl� Lorie Van Auken, who has learned a great deal about Mylroie�s theories in her research, confronts Zelikow shortly after the hearings. �That took a lot of nerve putting someone like that on the panel,� she tells Zelikow. �Laurie Mylroie? This is supposed to be an investigation of September 11. This is not supposed to be a sales pitch for the Iraq war.� Van Auken later recalls �a sly smile� crossing Zelikow�s face, as he refuses to answer. �He knew exactly what he was doing,� Van Auken will say. �He was selling the war.� After the hearing, Zelikow informs the staff that he wants them to aggressively pursue the idea of a link between Iraq and al-Qaeda. Author Philip Shenon will later write, �To some members of the staff, Zelikow seemed determined to demonstrate that whatever the evidence to the contrary, Iraq and al-Qaeda had a close relationship that justified the toppling of Saddam Hussein.�

The Commission: The Uncensored History of the 9/11 Investigation by Philip Shenon, Pg. 130-134

Re: It's finally catching on

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X It's good to see someone's local news channel actually talking about it

the only reason the news carried that is because Minnesota's former governor made the statement. It had nothing to do with the actual theory, just that ventura believes in the theory.

now that i think about it, since ventura believes the US government was in on it, that theory must be true. come the fuck on, that guy was a professional wrestler.

i don't know if this was posted previously, but it's a good read from a reputable source.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tec...842.html?page=4

Kissinger vs. the 9/11 Families

quote:

A group of widows who lost their husbands and sons in the World Trade Center on 9/11 have banded together and are working to expose the truth. They're not afraid to ask the hard questions and demand the real answers about what happened that day, so why should the rest of us hold back? Let's follow their brave example and speak out about 9/11 and the fraudulent story we've been told.

Re: Re: It's finally catching on

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 the only reason the news carried that is because Minnesota's former governor made the statement. It had nothing to do with the actual theory, just that ventura believes in the theory. now that i think about it, since ventura believes the US government was in on it, that theory must be true. come the fuck on, that guy was a professional wrestler. i don't know if this was posted previously, but it's a good read from a reputable source. http://www.popularmechanics.com/tec...842.html?page=4

This only makes me even more embarrassed that my state elected that guy.

Re: The official conspiracy theory is a farce

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X I think it's time to start setting the record straight because there are a lot of scumbags out there who would rather argue from ignorance over this whole thing. July 9, 2003: �Jersey Girls� Lambast Zelikow over Author�s Testimony Linking 9/11 to Iraqi Government While some find neoconservative author Laurie Mylroie�s testimony before the 9/11 Commission of a terrorist conspiracy between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda to be compelling (see July 9, 2003), others do not. One group that is not convinced is the so-called �Jersey Girls,� the group of widows who lost their husbands in the 9/11 attacks and then worked to force the Bush administration to create the Commission (see March 31, 2003). They lambast Commission director Philip Zelikow for allowing Mylroie to testify. �Jersey Girl� Lorie Van Auken, who has learned a great deal about Mylroie�s theories in her research, confronts Zelikow shortly after the hearings. �That took a lot of nerve putting someone like that on the panel,� she tells Zelikow. �Laurie Mylroie? This is supposed to be an investigation of September 11. This is not supposed to be a sales pitch for the Iraq war.� Van Auken later recalls �a sly smile� crossing Zelikow�s face, as he refuses to answer. �He knew exactly what he was doing,� Van Auken will say. �He was selling the war.� After the hearing, Zelikow informs the staff that he wants them to aggressively pursue the idea of a link between Iraq and al-Qaeda. Author Philip Shenon will later write, �To some members of the staff, Zelikow seemed determined to demonstrate that whatever the evidence to the contrary, Iraq and al-Qaeda had a close relationship that justified the toppling of Saddam Hussein.�

what was the point of that? i don't think there was a link between al-qaeda and hussein. hussein wasn't a stupid man, and he certainly would have known that the US would attack if he was linked to an attack against the US.

Re: Re: Re: It's finally catching on

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov This only makes me even more embarrassed that my state elected that guy.

i feel for you. although my state elected a governor who had a gay affair with an israeli "defense expert" while in office. that's pretty embarrassing also.

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X I can't speak for anyone but myself but I don't think that you're going to find too many of us joking in this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 The city where i live lost 20+ people on 9/11 (including some i know), i went to school in NYC, i work in NYC, and i found that video funny. what's more insulting to people who lived through the situation is all the conspiracy theories.

Which is the reason why the video is funny. The joke has little to do with the 11th of September. Laughing at that would be really harsh. But, the point in question is that these theories are so far-fetched, they're nonsensical... that video is almost a summary of this thread. Really, if it weren't for Imre Lakatos, I'd have no idea of how these theories managed to survive this long.

Re: Re: Re: The official conspiracy theory is a farce

quote:

Originally posted by ******** Are you forgetting the 10+ year long war called the Persian Gulf War Part 1... they were flying attack missions into Iraq regularly against anti air assets over that time and enforcing a no fly zone which was in Iraqi airspace.. and embargoing it.

10 years!?!?! attack missions targeting anti-aircraft targets shooting at them; that's hardly a war. war suggests large scale. concentrated missions defending aircraft does not constitute war.

quote:

Originally posted by ******** but frankly Osama was not involved in 911 directly - although many high profile individuals "stars" may be linked to training terrorist.. the US trained the jihadists.. so if you train the trainers who trained the people that attacked you.. who is responsible? Although OSAMA ain't stupid either - if he is still kicking after 7 years .. he seems to have a higher IQ then Saddam (whichever one of him they killed.. I doubt it was really him..)

yeah, i'll believe you when the man himself claimed responsibility.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/10/29/binladen_message041029.html

quote:

Originally posted by ******** funny how bremer looks in a beard... don't ya think. I'm also currious if you know arabic... if so why not post a link to the actual statement not the fabricated response.

no, but a shit load of people do, and i'm sure if the statements made by obama are different than the media is claiming then someone would have pointed that out.

i just picked the first non-US link on wikipedia where osama claims responsibility.

quote:

Originally posted by ******** and why can't technology be used to forge the videos.. all these videos that are appearing.. yet no osama? ever wonder that? I think it is more likely osama made like a billion videos sold them for $1 each to al jazarah and said. ah just make sure it's not a rerun.. I do not beleive he had the capacity to coordinate attacks while his communication channels were being monitored

yeah, because osama bin ladens motivation throughout his history has been money. have you read anything about his past? he is from a wealthy family. i'm sure his motivation in claiming responsibility was money. even if it means he could never show his face again. or that he would have to travel discretely for the rest of his life. that just doesn't make sense. it's probably one of the dumbest claims associated with any conspiracy theory.

EDIT: your edited response is incomprehensible. use paragraphs my friend.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Which is the reason why the video is funny. The joke has little to do with the 11th of September. Laughing at that would be really harsh. But, the point in question is that these theories are so far-fetched, they're nonsensical... that video is almost a summary of this thread. Really, if it weren't for Imre Lakatos, I'd have no idea of how these theories managed to survive this long.

I still think that the most nonsensical one is the official one, though. Heck, even the heads of the commission themselves came out and said that they were stonewalled and not able to properly perfom any kind of investigation.

And the NIST report was flawed, too. They had to take out so many support pillars to initiate a collapse and make those towers fall when they did the computer simulation that they were wandering pretty far off into fantasy land when they did it.

Talk about conspiracy theories. lol

quote:

Description: Engineer Gordon Ross gives a good presentation on the Twin Tower's collapse on 9-11 and why the 47 core columns needed to have been severed in order for the buildings to fall the way that they did

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X Engineer Gordon Ross gives a good presentation on the Twin Tower's collapse on 9-11 and why the 47 core columns needed to have been severed in order for the buildings to fall the way that they did

Gordon Ross.......

IS NOT a Chartered Engineer in the UK - no liscence currently exists or has existed with the Engineering Council of the United Kingdom

IS NOT a member of the Royal institute of structural engineers - as verified by a membership search of the Royal Institute of Structural Engineers


funnier yet, for such a reputable and creidble source, you would think i would be able to find some record of his credentials online? no, not one university news letter citing works or alumni status, and no sign of his professional resume anywhere i could find.

all that aside, his video did not propose any new ideas or evidence that i have not already seen in the dozens of other useless videos that get posted in this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by colonelcrisp Gordon Ross....... IS NOT a Chartered Engineer in the UK - no liscence currently exists or has existed with the Engineering Council of the United Kingdom IS NOT a member of the Royal institute of structural engineers - as verified by a membership search of the Royal Institute of Structural Engineers funnier yet, for such a reputable and creidble source, you would think i would be able to find some record of his credentials online? no, not one university news letter citing works or alumni status, and no sign of his professional resume anywhere i could find. all that aside, his video did not propose any new ideas or evidence that i have not already seen in the dozens of other useless videos that get posted in this thread.

Could you please try and refute his presentation instead of simply attacking his credentials (or lack, thereof)?

Thank you

The least you could do is give us a reason why the NIST had to take out so many extra support columns in their computer model in order to initiate the their tower collapse.

Even then, though, that still wouldn't make up for the hundreds of other signs of a coverup.

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X Could you please try and refute his presentation instead of simply attacking his credentials (or lack, thereof)? Thank you

No need. If he's not a licensed, structural engineer, then his presentation is meaningless. I keep asking you guys- when you go to the hospital who do you want to see? The guy who spent 6 years at university or the guy that cleans the toilets?

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN No need. If he's not a licensed, structural engineer, then his presentation is meaningless. I keep asking you guys- when you go to the hospital who do you want to see? The guy who spent 6 years at university or the guy that cleans the toilets?

that depends on whether the guy cleaning the toilet is selling percocets he stole from the hospital pharmacy.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN No need. If he's not a licensed, structural engineer, then his presentation is meaningless. I keep asking you guys- when you go to the hospital who do you want to see? The guy who spent 6 years at university or the guy that cleans the toilets?

Well colonelcrisp is (supposedly) a licensed engineer and has not proved jack either. You can throw that lame excuse out of the ball park now, thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut Well colonelcrisp is (supposedly) a licensed engineer and has not proved jack either. You can throw that lame excuse out of the ball park now, thanks.

for the last time (honestly, how simple are you?) the onus is not on colonel to prove jack shit.

the onus is on you and your ilk to show how your theories are scientifically plausible. still havent done anything even approaching that.

what you waiting for? biding your time?

Yes 173 60.92%
No 111 39.08%

Maybe it's just me but not too many seem to believe the official story. The onus is on the government, you continue to neglect that they actually work for the people that put them their in the first place.

This is a thread where the the majority is not in favor of the official story, the onus is on the minority (colonel and you included).

You get it now? If not give up we will not hold it against you I promise.

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