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-- I just saw Matrix Reloaded
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The movie probably would have been Better if Milli Vanilli was actually in it... *sigh*
i didn't like the sex scene..neo and trin were always with "will" to make it..everytime they were like alone.."let's do it"..wtf??
you complain about the effects and were copied several times from the matrix1..well, those effects were the ones who gave matrix1 a superior quality than the rest movies..effects were really nice..i loved them..
it's not what effects are used..it's how they transmit the story..they seem very nice to me
you are wrong saying that neo hasn't learned anything..(no character evolution)..he sensed and stoped sentinels at the end..isn't that quite off the ordinary??
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| Originally posted by RenderedDream i didn't like the sex scene..neo and trin were always with "will" to make it..everytime they were like alone.."let's do it"..wtf?? |
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| you are wrong saying that neo hasn't learned anything..(no character evolution)..he sensed and stoped sentinels at the end..isn't that quite off the ordinary?? |
. What I meant was none of the characters are developed or grow with their relationships to each other. They're cardboard charactures, look at Trinity, she emotionless ice queen, what does Neo see in her.
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| Originally posted by igottaknow Oh well seems like u liked and I didnt thats ok. |
everythuing u ever wanna know about
THE MATRIX , THE SEQUELS , ALL THE PHILOSOPHICAL ANGLES POSSIBLE....READ ON ..IF U LIKE IT SEND ME A COMMENT COZ I SPENT A FEW HOURS ASSIMILATING STUFF FROM ALL OVER TO MAKE MY OWN MATRIX HANDBOOK
THE MATRIX
The action unfolds in the distant future some untold years after the earth as we know it has been destroyed during a cataclysmic war between the computers and their human creators. The computers have won. They control the entire planet and keep the human race alive in a totally helpless state, imprisoned in cocoon like shells, and farmed as an energy source. Everyone is blissfully unaware of these circumstances because the computers have re-created the earth in the form of a virtual reality world in which people carry out their daily routines, coming and going, getting and spending, living and dying, much as we are doing now. But this veneer of normalcy is only a mask and an illusion. It is The Matrix. In fact, the entire human race has been reduced to a condition of abject slavery and helplessness. Most humans, of course, are trapped in soupy cocoons, hooked up to tubes and wires. Controlled by the Matrix program, they think they are living a real life, but in fact are only dreaming
This construction of Neo as Jesus is reinforced in numerous ways. Within minutes of the commencement of the movie, another hacker says to Neo, "You're my savior, man, my own personal Jesus Christ."10 This identification is also suggested by the Nebuchadnezzar's crew, who nervously wonder if he is "the One" who was foretold, and who repeatedly swear in Neo's presence by saying "Jesus" or "Jesus Christ."11 In still another example, Neo enters the Nebuchadnezzar for the first time and the camera pans across the interior of the ship, resting on the make: "Mark III no. 11." This seems to be another messianic reference, since the Gospel of Mark 3:11 reads: "Whenever the unclean spirits saw him, they fell down before him and shouted, ' You are the Son of God!'"
The majority of the film's audience probably easily recognizes the presence of some Christian elements, such as the name Trinity6 or Neo's death and Christ-like resurrection and ascension near the end of the film. In fact, Christian and biblical allusions abound, particularly with respect to nomenclature:7 Apoc (Apocalypse), Neo's given name of Mr. Ander/son (from the Greek andras for man, thus producing "Son of Man"), the ship named the Nebuchadnezzar (the Babylonian king who, in the Book of Daniel, has puzzling symbolic dreams that must be interpreted),8 and the last remaining human city, Zion, synonymous in Judaism and Christianity with (the heavenly) Jerusalem.9 Neo is overtly constructed as a Jesus figure: he is "the One" who was prophesied to return again to the Matrix, who has the power the change the Matrix from within (i.e., to work miracles), who battles the representatives of evil and who is killed but comes to life again.
Similarly, in the film Morpheus, whose name is taken from the Greek god of sleep and dreams, reveals to Neo that the Matrix is "a computer generated dreamworld." When Neo is unplugged and awakens for the first time on the Nebuchadnezzar in a brightly lit white space (a cinematic code for heaven), his eyes hurt, as Morpheus explains, because he has never used them. Everything Neo has "seen" up to that point was seen with the mind's eye, as in a dream, created through software simulation.
Meanwhile a small group of rebels wages a struggle, apparently against all odds, to reveal the truth and liberate the human race from its oppression. Their hope lies in finding The Chosen One, a human being endowed with God-like powers who will lead them in a war of liberation. During much of the movie, the suspense builds and the drama gathers force around the question: is Keneau Reeves The One? Or shall we be forced to look for another? Here the Wachowski brothers reach beyond and behind science fiction to draw upon the Bible as well as classical mythology. Neo, Trinity and Morpheus, the names themselves suggest their line and lineage. Neo learns about the true structure of reality and about his own true identity, which allows him to break the rules of the material world he now perceives to be an illusion. That is, he learns that "the mind makes it [the Matrix, the material world] real," but it is not ultimately real. In the final scene of the film, it is this gnosis that Neo passes on to others in order to free them from the prison of their minds, the Matrix.Infact, , Neo's given name is not only Mr. Anderson / the Son of Man, it is Thomas Anderson, which reverberates with the most famous Gnostic gospel, the Gospel of Thomas. Also, before he is actualized as Neo (the one who will initiate something "New," since he is indeed "the One"), he is doubting Thomas, who does not believe in his role as the redeemer figure.20 In fact, the name Thomas means "the Twin," and in ancient Christian legend he is Jesus' twin brother. In a sense, the role played by Keanu Reeves has a twin character, since he is constructed as both a doubting Thomas and as a Gnostic Christ figure.21
This is not science fiction, it is in fact a new genre of film-making in which special effects combine with ancient metaphor and symbol. It is spirituality fiction.Agents such as Agent Smith, and their opposition to the equivalent of the Gnostics - that is, Neo and anyone else attempting to leave the Matrix. AI created these artificial programs to be "the gatekeepers - they are guarding all the doors, they are holding all the keys
Without giving away the movie's outcome, it is revealing that the strengths which our heroes bring to the struggle are a composite of skills both technological and spiritual. Neo and his colleagues combine a mastery of the computer with the force of mind over matter. In fact, the outcome of the movie hinges around whether Neo can conquer his own fear and draw upon the deepest resources of the human spirit. Neo is an exorcist, who casts out alien Agents inhabiting the residual self-images of those immersed in the Matrix
Yet another parallel with Gnosticism occurs in the portrayal of the Agents such as Agent Smith, and their opposition to the equivalent of the Gnostics - that is, Neo and anyone else attempting to leave the Matrix. AI created these artificial programs to be "the gatekeepers - they are guarding all the doors, they are holding all the keys." These Agents are akin to the jealous archons created by Yaldabaoth who block the ascent of the Gnostic as he/she tries to leave the material realm and guard the gates of the successive levels of heaven
However, as Morpheus predicts, Neo is eventually able to defeat the Agents because while they must adhere to the rules of the Matrix, his human mind allows him to bend or break these rules.2. It is striking that Neo overcomes Agent Smith in the final showdown of the film precisely by realizing fully the illusion of the Matrix, something the Agent apparently cannot do, since Neo is subsequently able to break rules that the Agent cannot. His final defeat of Smith entails entering Smith's body and splitting him in pieces by means of pure luminosity, portrayed through special effects as light shattering Smith from the inside out.
The Problem of Samsara. Even the title of the film evokes the Buddhist worldview. The Matrix is described by Morpheus as "a prison for your mind." It is a dependent "construct" made up of the interlocking digital projections of billions of human beings who are unaware of the illusory nature of the reality in which they live and are completely dependent on the hardware attached to their real bodies and the elaborate software programs created by AI This "construct" resembles the Buddhist idea of samsara, which teaches that the world in which we live our daily lives is constructed only from the sensory projections formulated from our own desires.
The viability of the Matrix�s illusion depends upon the belief by those enmeshed in it that the Matrix itself is reality. AI�s software program is, in and of itself, no illusion at all. Only when humans interact with its programs do they become enmeshed in a corporately-created illusion, the Matrix, or samsara, which reinforces itself through the interactions of those beings involved within it. Thus the Matrix�s reality only exists when actual human minds subjectively experience its programs. When Morpheus takes Neo into the "construct" to teach him about the Matrix, Neo learns that the way in which he had perceived himself in the Matrix was nothing more than "the mental projection of your digital self." The "real" world, which we associate with what we feel, smell, taste, and see, "is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain." The world, Morpheus explains, exists "now only as part of a neural interactive simulation that we call the Matrix
Clad in threadbare clothes, subsisting on gruel, and sleeping in bare cells, the crew is depicted enacting the Middle Way taught by the Buddha, allowing neither absolute asceticism nor indulgence to distract them from their work.40
The Matrix also embraces ideas found in Mahayana Buddhism, especially in its particular concern for liberation for all people through the guidance of those who remain in samsara and postpone their own final enlightenment in order to help others as bodhisattvas.46 The crew members of the Nebuchadnezzar epitomize this compassion. Rather than remain outside of the Matrix where they are safer, they choose to re-enter it repeatedly as ambassadors of knowledge with the ultimate goal of freeing the minds and eventually also the bodies of those who are trapped within the Matrix�s digital web. The film attempts to blend the Theravada ideal of the arhat with the Mahayana ideal of the bodhisattva, presenting the crew as concerned for those still stuck in the Matrix and willing to re-enter the Matrix to help them, while simultaneously arguing that final realization is an individual process.The Oracle has foretold the return of one who has the ability to manipulate the Matrix. As Morpheus explains, the return of this man "would hail the destruction of the Matrix, end the war, bring freedom to our people. That is why there are those of us who have spent our entire lives searching the Matrix, looking for him." Neo, Morpheus believes, is a reincarnation of that man and like the Buddha, he will be endowed with extraordinary powers to aid in the enlightenment of all humanity.
The idea that Neo can be seen as a reincarnation of the Buddha is reinforced by the prevalence of birth imagery in the film directly related to him. At least four incarnations are perceptible in the film. The first birth took place in the pre-history of the film, in the life and death of the first enlightened one who was able to control the Matrix from within. The second consists of Neo�s life as Thomas Anderson. The third begins when Neo emerges, gasping, from the gel of the eerily stupa-like pod in which he has been encased, and is unplugged and dropped through a large black tube which can easily be seen as a birth canal.47 He emerges at the bottom bald, naked, and confused, with eyes that Morpheus tells him have "never been used" before. Having "died" to the world of the Matrix, Neo has been "reborn" into the world beyond it. Neo�s fourth life begins after he dies and is "reborn" again in the closing scenes of the film, as Trinity resuscitates him with a kiss.48 At this point, Neo perceives not only the limitations of the Matrix, but also the limitations of the world of the Nebuchadnezzar, since he overcomes death in both realms. Like the Buddha, his enlightenment grants him omniscience and he is no longer under the power of the Matrix, nor is he subject to birth, death, and rebirth within AI�s mechanical construct
Buddhism teaches that when samsara is transcended, nirvana is attained. The notion of self is completely lost, so that conditional reality fades away, and what remains, if anything, defies the ability of language to describe. In his re-entry into the Matrix, however, Neo retains the "residual self-image" and the "mental projection of [a] digital self." Upon "enlightenment," he finds himself not in nirvana, or no-where, but in a different place with an intact, if somewhat confused, sense of self which strongly resembles his "self" within the Matrix. Trinity may be right that the Matrix "cannot tell you who you are," but who you are seems to be at least in some sense related to who you think you are in the Matrix. In other words, there is enough continuity in self-identity between the world of the Matrix and "the desert of the real" that it seems probable that the authors are implying that full "enlightenment" has not yet been reached and must lie beyond the reality of the Nebuchadnezzar and the world it inhabits. If the Buddhist paradigm is followed to its logical conclusions, then we have to expect at least one more layer of "reality" beyond the world of the crew, since even freed from the Matrix they are still subject to suffering and death and still exhibit individual egos.
when humans awaken, they leave behind the material world. The Gnostic ascends at death to the pleroma, the divine plane of spiritual, non-material existence, and the enlightened one in Buddhism achieves nirvana, a state which cannot be described in language, but which is utterly non-material. By contrast, the "desert of the real," is a wholly material, technological world, in which robots grow humans for energy, Neo can learn martial arts in seconds through a socket inserted into the back of his brain, and technology battles technology (Nebuchadnezzar vs. AI, electromagnetic pulse vs. Sentinels). Moreover, the battle against the Matrix is itself made possible through technology - cell phones, computers, software training programs. "Waking up" in the film is leaving behind the Matrix and awakening to a dismal cyber-world, which is the real material world.
There are several cinematic clues in the scene of the construct loading program (represented by white space) that suggest that the "desert of the real" Morpheus shows Neo may not be the ultimate reality. After all, Morpheus, whose name is taken from the god of dreams, shows the "real" world to Neo, who never directly views the surface world himself. Rather, he sees it on a television bearing the logo "Deep Image." Throughout the film, reflections in mirrors and Morpheus's glasses, as well as images on television monitors point the viewer toward consideration of multiple levels of illusion.55 As the camera zooms in to the picture on this particular television and the viewer "enters" the image, it "morphs" the way the surveillance screens do early in the film, indicating its unreality. In addition, the entire episode takes place while they stand in a construct loading program in which Neo is warned not to be tricked by appearances. Although sense perception is clearly not a reliable source for establishing reality, Morpheus himself admits that, "For a long time I wouldn't believe it, and then I saw the fields [of humans grown for energy] with my own eyes... And standing there, I came to realize the obviousness of the truth." We will have to await the sequels to find out whether "the desert of the real" is itself real.56
Even if the film series does not ultimately establish a complete rejection of the material realm, The Matrix as it stands still asserts the superiority of the human capacity for imagination and realization over the limited "intelligence" of technology. Whether stated in terms of matter/ spirit, body/ mind, hardware/ software or illusion/ truth, the ultimate message of The Matrix seems to be that there may be levels of metaphysical reality beyond what we can ordinarily perceive, and the film urges us to open ourselves to the possibility of awakening to them.
EXAMPLE FROM MOVIE:
Take the example, discussed in the film, of the pleasure of eating. Imagine that science develops a pill which supplies the perfect amount of nutrition for a human being each day. Humans no longer need to eat at all in the ordinary way. In fact they are, as far as their health is concerned, far worse off if they try to rely on their taste to supply them with the appropriate nutrition (see current statistics on fast food consumption and obesity). They can simply take the pill and get nutrition far superior to what they would if left to their own taste to determine what and how much to eat. Let's suppose too that science has found a way to simulate food with a computer, so that they have created a "food-matrix". My real nutrition would come from the pill, but I could still go out for a "simulated" steak and it would seem just as though I were really eating a steak, including the sensation of getting full, although in fact I would be eating nothing and getting no nutritional harm or benefit from the experience at all. It is hard to imagine such a perfect pill and such perfect computer-simulated food; such a pill is no simple vitamin, and a tofu-burger is no simulated steak. But if we suppose that there are such things, I think human beings would readily give up eating real steak. What those who value eating steak value is not the eating of real cow flesh (in fact, putting it that way inclines one to become a vegetarian), but the experience of eating. If eating the computer steak really were, as we are assuming, absolutely indistinguishable from eating a real steak, no one would care whether they were eating a "real" steak � that is, one that was obtained from a slaughtered cow.
n a scene discussed by Grau, Cypher claims his knowledge that the steak is "unreal" � that is, computer generated � does not diminish his enjoyment. Cypher then looks forward to the point when he expects his memory to be wiped clean, and when he will no longer remember that the Matrix is the Matrix. But it seems to me to be unclear why Cypher needs to forget anything about his steak being unreal in order to fully enjoy it � as he himself seems to understand � nor does he need to forget that he is in the Matrix in order to make his life pleasant and satisfying within it. What he desperately needs to forget in order to have a comfortable and satisfying life is the memory of his immoral and cowardly betrayal of his friends and of the rest of those outside of the Matrix who are engaged in the fight for human liberation. But this is an issue, once again, not arising from the Matrix itself, but from the "moral background" of the film.
PRE-FILM MATRICES
"Did you know that the First Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world, where none suffered, where everyone would be happy? It was a disaster."
Agent Smith, to Morpheus
---> That was a problem for the Matrix earlier, when the humans found their dreams too pleasant to be true and kept regaining consciousness ("whole crops were lost").
Is the title "The Matrix" related to the mitochondrial matrix located in cells; the site of cell respiration, the creation of energy in humans?
WachowskiBros: Like the movie itself, there is alot of word play, a lot of hidden other meanings, alot of multiple meanings. Besides that, we also like the definition, the mathematical definition of the use of matrix, or the use of it in terms of a woman's womb
Sinclair: Why were they only able to jack in through hard-lines, but still able to communicate over cell?
WachowskiBros: Sinclair, good question! Mostly we felt that the amount of information that was being sent into the Matrix required a significant portal. Those portals, we felt, were better described with the hard lines rather than cell lines. We also felt that the rebels tried to be invisible when they hacked, that's why all the entrances and exits were sort of through decrepit and low traffic areas of the Matrix.
NIKKI: Who unplugged Morpheus and told him about the Matrix?
WachowskiBros: We hope to tell that story in another medium one day.
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THE MATRIX RELOADED
In The Matrix Reloaded, Neo and the rebel leaders estimate that they have 72 hours until 250,000 probes discover Zion and destroy it and its inhabitants. As the clock ticks down, Neo must decide how he can save Trinity from a dark fate in his dreams.
The sequel opens with a dream sequence, where Neo, the hero played by Keanu Reeves, is haunted by the apparent death of his lover, Trinity, played by Carrie Anne-Moss. After she calms his fears, reiterating their love for one another, Neo, Trinity, and Morpheus, the commander of Nebuchednezzer, return to Zion, the last underground city of humanity.
Zion is battling an evil group of computerized machines, which have enslaved the rest of humanity, who are being used to generate the power needed by the machines to survive. All is not safe for Zion, however. The machines have sent 250,000 seeker destroyers, one for every man, woman and child in Zion.
Morpheus urges the Council of Zion to send Neo, Trinity and he back into �the Matrix,� a virtual reality created for humans by the evil machines, to find the key to the mainframe computer generating the Matrix. Morpheus is one of the few in Zion who believe that Neo is the promised Messiah, the promised One who can help them defeat the evil machines, and end the 100-year war that has been raging.
Neo re-visits the Oracle, the black female prophet from the first movie, who turns out to be a rogue computer program scheduled for deletion by the machines. She tells Neo where to find �the Keymaker� who can unlock the door leading to the mainframe computer.
Neo and his friends have a couple major obstacles, however. The Keymaker is �owned� by a malevolent Frenchman, who controls two very mean rogue programs called the Twins. The Twins can dematerialize in the Matrix at will, making them very hard to destroy. It's implied that the Merovingian manipulates Matrix code in a way that compels a woman to give him oral sex. . Neo also discovers that Agent Smith, the machines� henchman in the first movie, has become a rogue program himself. Making matters much worse is the fact that Smith has found a way to duplicate himself many times over, which leads to a very long fight scene between Neo and 100 Agent Smiths.
The storyline plays on the concept of choice and the ramifications of choice, i.e. � since we, as humans, are imperfect, we make imperfect decisions. This is confirmed when we meet the maker of the Matrix. He allows Neo to choose between two doors, and the maker is sad that he makes an imperfect choice: love over ending the war between the Matrix and Zion. The maker also makes it clear that this is the sixth time that Neo has been in front of him. So, a subtle message of reincarnation is slightly evident along with the fact that even if Neo chooses the "love" door, he might be back to try again.
The Oracle is also important to this storyline. There is a line where they say, �The prophecy cannot be fulfilled unless we meet with the Oracle first." Later, the importance of the Oracle is emphasized when it is said, "The Oracle can do anything." So, this message of an allegorical �God� continues in the second as it did in the first.
PHILOSOPHY OF THE MATRIX
The philosophy of the Matrix has to do with free will versus determinism, and phenomenology. Free will is the idea that we can make real choices in life. Determinism is the idea that either we have no real power to make choices, or that we can make choices, but those choices are pre-determined by cause and effect events going back to the beginning of time. One school of thought holds that no matter what choice we make, we can't change the future. This could be called fatalistic determinism. The other deterministic school of thought holds that our choices determine the future. This latter idea, at least, allows for individual responsibility. Phenomenology is the idea that we can't trust our senses to tell us what is going on in the real world. For all we know, we could be a brain in a jar being fed electrical impulses to convice us we have a real life. We know that all our five senses are mere electrical impulses, so, in theory at least, we know nothing about the real world. There are several good essays on the philosophy of the first Matrix film on �The Matrix: Reloaded� web page.
MATRIX WITHIN THE MATRIX
We are let in on the truth about the situation, and we are not supposed to question, for example, whether the battle between Morpheus and his friends and the Agents is itself being conducted in another "meta-matrix", or whether the view of the human pods we see might only be some sort of dream image or illusion.
THE MATRIX : BETTER OUTSIDE OR INSIDE
I shall conclude by claiming that The Matrix itself provides evidence that, barring enslavement and deception, we would prefer life within the Matrix. I have so far considered how we would feel about the reality of a benevolently generated Matrix. But in The Matrix, the cause of the Matrix is explicitly not benevolent. Human beings are enslaved and exploited by scary-looking machines. The Matrix is a story about a few human beings fighting to save the rest of humanity. That is how the movie generates excitement, the thrill for the viewer as he or she hopes that the heroes can defeat the enemy. Of course, the film expects one to root for the humans. But I think there is some duplicity at work in the way The Matrix exploits the Matrix. Neo is the savior of humanity, and a large amount of the pleasure that the viewer gets from the film consists of watching Neo and his friends learn to manipulate the Matrix. Key to Neo's eventual success is his training. In his training he learns that the Matrix, as a computer-generated group dream, can be manipulated by a human being. The idea, I guess, is that if one could bring oneself to believe deeply enough that, despite appearances, things are not real, then one could manipulate the reality of the Matrix. The thrill that Neo feels, and that we feel watching him, is that as he gains this control he is able to do things that are, apparently, superhuman � move faster than bullets, hang onto helicopters, fly, etc. We ought to note here, though, that Neo's greatness, his being the One, is only the case because the Matrix exists. Outside of the Matrix, Neo is just a smart computer geek. He can't really fly, or really dodge bullets (nor, apparently, does he dress in full-length black leather coats, though I guess he could). We, as viewers, would not get any pleasure from The Matrix if it were not for the Matrix. If there were no Matrix, everyone would be eating terrible porridge in a sunless world and simply fighting for survival, which would make for a bad world and a bad movie. The premise of the movie is that there is a moral duty to destroy the Matrix, and "free" the humans. But all of the satisfaction that the viewer gets, and that the characters get in terms of their own sense of purpose and of being special, is derived from the Matrix. It's not just Cypher's steak that is owed to the Matrix, it is Morpheus's breaking the handcuffs, Trinity's gravity-defying leaps, and Neo's bullet dodging. If my argument is right, then, the irony of The Matrix is that the heroes spend all of their time liberating human beings from the Matrix although afterwards they would have good reason to go back in, assuming the conditions on Earth are still so terrible. This is because there's nothing wrong with the Matrix per se; indeed, I've argued that our reality might just as well be the Matrix. What we want, now as always, one way or another, is to have control over it ourselves. What we would do with such power is a question, I suppose, for psychologists; but, looking at what people have done so far, I at any rate hope we remain enslaved and deceived by something for a long time to come.18
Can't be arsed to read thru all the thread so apologies if this has already been posted, but its quite good :
http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm
Does anyone know the track name when morpheus fights the twins in the parking??
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| Originally posted by blop Does anyone know the track name when morpheus fights the twins in the parking?? |
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| Originally posted by igottaknow GIRL YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE by Milli Vanilli |
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| Originally posted by blop Does anyone know the track name when morpheus fights the twins in the parking?? |
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