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Kaos versus Project T
Okay, here are my results for this challenge. I don't know how you want to handle both me and John judging it, so I'll leave that up to you two! I would like to know which person mixed which mix though 
Both of you did a great job!
Here are my judging criteria:
4pts Intro Track
10pts Consistent Beatmatching
10pts Consistent Phrasematching
10pts Track Key Matching, Volume Matching and Gain Structure
10pts Track Selection
10pts Mixing Style/Originality
5pts Sound Quality
3pts Effects
5pts Track Order
3pts Exit Track
You start with 100% and I take off points for imperfections. This means that if your mix is considerably longer than your opponent's, you have more of a chance of getting points taken off! This means stick to the same time limit that you and your opponent agree on. It's not really far to judge two mixes that are incredibly different in time. I tend to nit-pick when I judge, so don't be offended when I do so. I critique the mixes so that you can hopefully learn from that critique and if I say everything was pretty good, then that doesn't help you learn how to become better. I listen to trance all day long almost everyday, so if I hear those same tracks over and over again in your mixes, down goes the points for Originality. I want to hear good tracks that I've never heard before and mixes of good tracks that aren�t played all day long! BUT, this doesn�t mean that I will dock points for mixes that have a lot of popular tracks, as long as the set flows very well and is arranged well also.
It is possible to get more points than are listed for each category if you are quite exceptional in any one of them. You have a better chance of getting points over 100% in the lower point cats like effects and intro/exit tracks rather than beatmatching etc. I try to judge the sets on how they would hold up in a club setting, because that is what I think most of us are striving for. This doesn�t mean that a headlining set will always beat out a warm-up set either. I will try to remain unbiased between the two types of sets and also of sets of different genres, but my own personal tastes will always seep into my judging!
Kaos vs. Project T:
Mix 1
3/4pts Intro Track
Decent track, but takes a while to get into the swing of things.
10/10pts Consistent Beatmatching
I wasn't using my headphones, but it seemed right on to me!
10/10pts Consistent Phrasematching
I wasn't counting beats in each transition, but again, it seemed right on to me.
7/10pts Track Key Matching, Volume Matching and Gain Structure
The tracks got consistently louder during the set, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it started to distort and clip on Southern Sun. The keys were all good and the volume matching could be improved on some of the transitions--especially the louder/fuller basslines. Equing was good.
7/10pts Track Selection
It's good to hear a bunch of decent tracks that I haven't heard before, but most of them were only decent. The ending kicked it up quite a bit and overall it makes a very good warm-up set.
7/10pts Mixing Style/Originality
I think that you played out too much of the tracks and could have put more tracks in the time that your set took. Since the BPM and the energy of the set was on the low side, I think that it is good to make the tracks shorter so the crowd doesn't become bored with slow AND long tracks. This way the tracks are still good warm-up tracks, but you can get more people dancing because the perceived energy is higher, while not too high to destroy the energy of the headliner.
3/5pts Sound Quality
Distortion and Clipping on Southern Sun. Several spots that had pops and crackles during quiet points.
2/3pts Effects
I picked up some teasers and a very nicely timed backspin.
4/5pts Track Order
3/3pts Exit Track
Although it doesn�t give the dj after you too much to mix out of�it sounded like you mixed in a 1 min track at the very end, it is an appropriate way to end a mix.
Total pts = 56/70 = 80%
Mix 2
2/4pts Intro Track
I like this track, but it starts off with a typical bass beat beginning (aside from the first few seconds and takes a while to get to the point. I liked it because even though it was a simple track, it wasn't boring and it has a good amount of energy (compared to the rest of your set) to draw people in, but it did take a very long time to get really interesting.
8/10pts Consistent Beatmatching
Beatmatching was off during three or four of the transition. It wasn�t horrible, but you did much better during some transition over others.
10/10 + 1pts Consistent Phrasematching
The tracks are consistently phrase matched as far as I can tell�without counting beats. A few of the transition don�t carry through with a bass beat, and often times this is harder to do than if it does, kudos to you. Even if there was a drop off in bass built into the track at the point when you mixed in, you did a good job timing the cross over because I didn�t hear a drop in bass volume at all. Because you had a couple of these transitions and the other set didn�t, I shall give one bonus point.
7/10pts Track Key Matching, Volume Matching and Gain Structure
The volume got a bit loud during the first track and the volumes during a couple of the transitions could have been better. One of the last transitions had poor volume matching compared to the rest of the mixes. The bass volume dropped off considerable during the transition.
6/10pts Track Selection
As in Mix1, this is a good warm-up set, and it is easier to compare these two sets as such. I think that the bass beat drops off considerably more in this mix though, and due to that deserves fewer points. You build up the energy a small amount better, but the drop off in bass detracts from that. Also, you built up the energy to about the middle, and then it slide downward for the next 10 minutes or so and it was held there until the end. It never really picked up.
7/10pts Mixing Style/Originality
There were a few points which the bass beat in the track was eliminated for semi-extended periods of time. After starting with a decently upbeat track, you lost some of the energy by playing tracks that had these �bass gaps�, if you will. As I commented in the first mix, I think that you did a relatively good job with keeping the track time down and mixing in a good amount of tracks, or at least I feel that it is a better job than mix1.
4/5pts Sound Quality
In general the sound quality was very good. I think that there were a couple of times that the tracks started to distort and clip, it wasn�t incredibly noticeable.
1/3pts Effects
I think that there was a filter-like effect around 46mins, and it didn�t seem to be in phrase to the track. Other than that, I didn�t hear any effects.
3/5pts Track Order
Because of the track energy fluctuations and the lack of buildup at the end, I think that the track ordering could have been slightly better.
2/3pts Exit Track
The mix fades off into the distance. I have heard better tracks, but this track is a good ending to a warm-up set because it leaves the Dj after you a number of options.
Total pts = 51/70 = 73%
Given that mix 1 has more points, I declare that the Dj of Mix1 to be the winner. I feel that this mix was better overall based upon the criteria that I have stated above.
Re: Kaos versus Project T
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Dj Flesch Okay, here are my results for this challenge. I don't know how you want to handle both me and John judging it, so I'll leave that up to you two! I would like to know which person mixed which mix though Both of you did a great job!Here are my judging criteria: 4pts Intro Track 10pts Consistent Beatmatching 10pts Consistent Phrasematching 10pts Track Key Matching, Volume Matching and Gain Structure 10pts Track Selection 10pts Mixing Style/Originality 5pts Sound Quality 3pts Effects 5pts Track Order 3pts Exit Track |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Dj Flesch Here are my judging criteria: 4pts Intro Track 10pts Consistent Beatmatching 10pts Consistent Phrasematching 10pts Track Key Matching, Volume Matching and Gain Structure 10pts Track Selection 10pts Mixing Style/Originality 5pts Sound Quality 3pts Effects 5pts Track Order 3pts Exit Track |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by emono 'sound quality' should be taken into consideration, when it comes to crackling and skipping; |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by emono i like your criteria perhaps, though you should change 'effects' to 'creativity' and give it more points also, 'sound quality' should be taken into consideration, when it comes to crackling and skipping; however, stick to 'any medium is accepted' when it comes to the actual quality of the recording/stream. you would leave some of us in disadvantage if you counted a 56k upload against us, going vs., i.e., 192kpbs. on a more general note, i think submitting tracklistings for each challenge might be a good idea. it gives us some perspective into the mixes. |
tracks skipping should be judged.. since it is an error in mixing.. you should know your tracks
and recovering froma skip will probably give you more points fromt he judge.. it just shows more skill i guess
hehe it happend to me in my challenge yesterday
i really like your judgeing criteria flesch
really good! maybe it should be the mode from now on.. or we can use hte judgeing system from the TA mixing comp
we definately need to start having more than one judge for the mixing comp just to get a more opinionated result!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Dj Flesch I do take crackles, hisses and pops in to consideration, because if you spin vinyl, you should damn well take care of it! If not, then use a prog. to eliminate that stuff during silence. This IS stuff that you can control if you clean your records; use vinyl cleaning kits to help increase the fidelity (like gruv glide). If you were to submit that kind of stuff professionally, it is a huge disadvantage, IMO. Sound quality is one of the criteria that I feel is important for Djs, so I judge it. Don't forget it is only 5 pts, and I do try to take everything possible into consideration (ie modem uploads). But I would certainly count against you if you uploaded something in 24kbps. How do you expect me to even tell if a transition is beat matched if I can't hear it accurately? I think that for modem users, stick to 128kbps and 30 minutes set times. Either that or find another format other than MP3 that takes up less space. I can play WMA and Ogg Vorbis too, or you can find another connection. hell, you can mail me a CD, plenty of people have done that before. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Project T promoters don't give a shit as long as the vinyl isn't totally fucked and they can hear whats goin on. many like to hear it to see that you are actually playing vinyl and not just a load of cds or an mp3 mix, that could even be sequenced. also, i have many vinyl that have a fair amount of noise on them even when they are new and played first time, for example my copy of ultimate wave is rather clicky. the ladder and the mixes are about the dj skills, not how well they can master their mix. my tracklist if any1 cares: 01 Afterburn - Frattboy 02 Darren Christian - Temporal 03 Smiter - Both Places (John Johnson Remix) 04 Monoboy - The Music In You (Oliver Klein Remix) 05 Kamaya Painters - Wasteland (Chab Remix) 06 Arrakis - Aira Force (Lemon8 Remix) 07 Oakenfold - Southern Sun (Gabriel & Dresden Remix) 08 Ti�sto & Junkie XL - Obsession no practising, made up as i go along, most of them also being oldish vinyl also meant quite a bit of noise. before the mix i hadn't heard 1 2 3 4 or 7 all the way through before lol. |
btw kaos, do i have another challenge with u or not?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Project T btw kaos, do i have another challenge with u or not? |
okies
i have none atm, w00t w00t.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Project T okies i have none atm, w00t w00t. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit tracks skipping should be judged.. since it is an error in mixing.. you should know your tracks and recovering froma skip will probably give you more points fromt he judge.. it just shows more skill i guess |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DJ NGE lol - what do skill and a skipping cd (usually resulting from a reading error by the cd player) have in common? ^^ |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by xKaoSx Well - Flesch's judging his own way- its not a template or anything- All judges will judge different. Speaking of which- I need a judge for live tonight in TA - 6-7 pm Pacific time? If not we'll just record. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DJ NGE i don't have a problem with that, but judging a skipping cd (which you can't avoid) has nothing to do with skill. btw. tranceaddict247 and i need a judge ^^ *g* |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by xKaoSx Ill judge you peeps- Just upload to the ftp in a folder called KaoS and name your files mix1 and mix2 you two figure out who is who. lol Ill post results when im done. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by xKaoSx You could always challenge someone else. You can have one challenge out and be challenged. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Project T yea but i can't be arsed lol |
I've read all of the posts reguarding my judging the sound quality etc. I will still judge that way because I feel that it is important. It's not like I'm going to dock you more than a point or two if I notice several sound defects. I realize that cds skip and records pop, hiss and crackle. But as a Dj, I think that it takes away from the professionality of the mix and so I place a small amount of value on it. Remember that vinyl imperfections will MAYBE be one point or two if they are really bad. I'm not going to dock points for one pop or crackle in a couple of minor spots. But when it is bad during a crutial moment of silence for several seconds and you can hear it quite a bit during the first minute or last minute of a set, then I think that it's work taking a point off.
Anyway, if you don't like the way I judge, then don't ask me to be your judge ;p It's as simple as that. There are several people who are willing to judge!
Also, on a side note, Kaos and T, do you have a problem if I reuse the mix that I made that never got judged?
I just challenged Emono, could someone volenteer to be a judge for us?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Dj Flesch I've read all of the posts reguarding my judging the sound quality etc. I will still judge that way because I feel that it is important. It's not like I'm going to dock you more than a point or two if I notice several sound defects. I realize that cds skip and records pop, hiss and crackle. But as a Dj, I think that it takes away from the professionality of the mix and so I place a small amount of value on it. Remember that vinyl imperfections will MAYBE be one point or two if they are really bad. I'm not going to dock points for one pop or crackle in a couple of minor spots. But when it is bad during a crutial moment of silence for several seconds and you can hear it quite a bit during the first minute or last minute of a set, then I think that it's work taking a point off. Anyway, if you don't like the way I judge, then don't ask me to be your judge ;p It's as simple as that. There are several people who are willing to judge! Also, on a side note, Kaos and T, do you have a problem if I reuse the mix that I made that never got judged? |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by xKaoSx I think it should be ok to use the same mix as long as its not the same person or judge- So yea- sure. should I leave it in there? I will take it out and let me know if you get challenged. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by xKaoSx Well - Flesch's judging his own way- its not a template or anything- All judges will judge different. Speaking of which- I need a judge for live tonight in TA - 6-7 pm Pacific time? If not we'll just record. |
dj_KaoS vs. TommyD
i decided to go by my own standards, although, of course, many of the areas in Flesch's criteria will be taken into consideration.
Mix 1
very creative. started off with a nice introductory scratch; ended with a massive drop into a sample of some macabre laugh.
there was so much creativity, actually, that it was hard to handle for the dj. a lot of layering; sometimes very effective. other times, it left me disoriented, in terms of phrasematching. also, there was one very noticeable overlaying of vocals between two very classic vocal tracks; resulting in a take-back-and-re-try. flowed very well and it was perfectly beatmatched; mixing was a bit rough, as well as volume matchings. adding to the creativy and originality of the set, there were a few scratches before kick-ins, which were very effective. it had the artist's signature all over.
Mix 2
proggy build-up at the beginning; followed by a proggy build-up into trance. key mixing and harmonics were effective for each of the two sections of the set: there was the beginning, with two songs remixed by the same producer; one having a sample of the third which i found effective during the silet break-down. switching to trance could have been more subtle; mixing became a bit rough between the G&D remix and the AVB remix; followed by an off sampling of the same sample used earlier. key mixing for the second section was, again, effective. mixing was only rough only in three sections; one of them being the only noticeable..erroneus volume-matching. it could have been a better set had it had an ending. the connection seems to have cut; or perhaps stopped by the dj. once again, artist's signature all over his work.
if it were possible to have ties,
this would be one of the few cases
seeing that the two mixes need work in complementary areas.
however,
judging by the mixing abilities, which take a major part in my criteria,
Mix 2 is the winning set this round.
Flesch,
challenge noted.
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