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-- Roll Call: TOTA Atheist Thread
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Originally posted by Jem_hadar Dude, wow. thank you for trying to really have this point understood. I find your points highly interesting and intelligent... i would love to hold a conversation w/ u one day about such things! Cheers mate! ~Jem~

+1 and I'll bring the beer!

Props to DJ_Elyot for the very eloquent points he has been making throughout this thread.

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Originally posted by LittlePoonzgirl This may be long FYI: Our current scientific models are quite flawed. Read the Holographic Universe...actually you may discount all the PHDs and MDs who worked on that due to their abstract theory. Science can really only disprove at best and isn't really all that good at it either. Why do you think Einstien was disturbed by such phenomenon as nonlocally interconnected particles. Science requires almost as much faith as religion. Keep in mind that science has also proved a probability that something you see doesn't actually exist when you go to touch it. Have you studied further than Newtonian physics? Religion is very much what people make of it. There are many different religions that all work very differently. Absurd ancient cult books...hmmm... ancient is an issue due to how well the information was recorded and now how it is translated. Cult books? I'm sure 100s of years from now people will question how we could believe such flawed scientific theories also written in books and followed by groups of people. In adition, some 'supernatural bullshit' may actually be 'proved' by science in the future. The more I study science the more I realize how much it can't explain. Too many in that community sweep things under the carpet when it doesn't fit into a current model. Or come up with random mathematics to prove whatever they want such as with string theory. Just remember, if you want prove it's a particle, it's a particle; if you want to prove its wave, then it's a wave.

You sound like a smart girl but comparing science to somthing that doent exist is stupid.

Unis are awsome and they hold power that boggles the mind. Nobody can ever see a uni or no were it comes from but its real. They are in every universe and are the the creator of time and matter. Science can not be proven just as much as unis!!!

Well i hope you understand unis are a made up word just like god is.

By the way agnostics are atheist with out balls..

If there are any women atheist out there p.m i will merry you lol..Never meet a women atheist before.

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Originally posted by Sexyboy79 By the way agnostics are atheist with out balls..

that made me chuckle LOL

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If there are any women atheist out there p.m i will merry you lol..Never meet a women atheist before.

A new very close friend of mine, Tessa, is a very adamant, strongly opinioned atheist. I was quite surprised and very happy to hear so. Shes an atheist and a very passionate one, which, yes, i agree is rare from my experience (shes no pussy-footing atheist, thats for sure!)

And shes Aussie... even more mad respect! Love that accent ppl!

~Jem~

P.S. Too bad shes going back down under in less than a month! Shes so wicked.

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Originally posted by SurrJRS +1 and I'll bring the beer! Props to DJ_Elyot for the very eloquent points he has been making throughout this thread.

Attaboy! Nice!

Maybe have some good eats, some cool freshing beers and just talk atheist shop... that would be so awesome and so good to do!

(of course it goes unsaid that some nice ubertrance would be hopefully playing in the background too... to stimulate our ears while we stimulate our brains with where we all stand and how we define ourselves individually as atheists)

~Jem~

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Originally posted by Jem_hadar that made me chuckle LOL A new very close friend of mine, Tessa, is a very adamant, strongly opinioned atheist. I was quite surprised and very happy to hear so. Shes an atheist and a very passionate one, which, yes, i agree is rare from my experience (shes no pussy-footing atheist, thats for sure!) And shes Aussie... even more mad respect! Love that accent ppl! ~Jem~ P.S. Too bad shes going back down under in less than a month! Shes so wicked.

LOL 26 and never dated a atheist ..Shit i dont even come across women that are atheist somtimes maybe a agnostic. Well i guess thats just how women are. I will settle for a agnostic though..

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Originally posted by djshan 5 billion percent athiest. why? because..... there's no "visual" proof that god exists. and god according to everyone's definition, is a person and/or power who created the universe. once this guy who disagreed with me said that i should prove to him that love exists, and he wanted to know if i have any "visual" proof to prove that an emotion exists. what an idiot! anyways, if someone shows me good evidence that god exists, ill become an agnostic, until then im an athiest.

Dude, expand your horizons. Don't think that just because your sensory inputs aren't perceiving something, that it doesn't exist. What that guy meant was so many of us accept emotions as if they are real and we can hold on to them. When in fact, there is no visual proof that emotions exist, but surely anytime we have been in a traffic jam, a long lineup, or been punched in the face we know emotions do exist.

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Originally posted by Sexyboy79 LOL 26 and never dated a atheist ..Shit i dont even come across women that are atheist somtimes maybe a agnostic. Well i guess thats just how women are. I will settle for a agnostic though..

Ive converted (but not as an active effort) two of my prior exs into agnostics

that was really awesome

~Jem~

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Originally posted by Jem_hadar im a very hardcore and passionate atheist myself. glad to meet you!

The fact that you are claiming to be a "hardcore" atheist means you are justifying your feelings.

Any emotion that requires justifying is a lie.

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Originally posted by cap The fact that you are claiming to be a "hardcore" atheist means you are justifying your feelings. Any emotion that requires justifying is a lie.

i was using "hardcore" to reitterate how passionate i was in my atheism. u took my words to litterally (and therefore miss read their intended context)

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Originally posted by Jem_hadar Ive converted (but not as an active effort) two of my prior exs into agnostics that was really awesome ~Jem~

Well women think diferent then men. Like Chris rock said...

"A man can never win a argument with a women, never!! Dont even bother.Why? Cuase men are handicaped in arguments. Why? cuase men have a need to make SENCE!

I laphed my ass of when he said that.

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Originally posted by Sexyboy79 Well women think diferent then men. Like Chris rock said... "A man can never win a argument with a women, never!! Dont even bother.Why? Cuase men are handicaped in arguments. Why? cuase men have a need to make SENCE! I laphed my ass of when he said that.

Which one was that? #3 or #4?

OMG< i love his sets! Chris Rock pwns me! I wonder whut he is... definately a theist of somekind im sure

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Originally posted by Jem_hadar i agree w/ entirely. first id ever really heard of the ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE... i guess ive read about its jist, just didnt know that was whut it was referred to as. thats the way i see things. it seems to say that we exist bc we exist (right?)

Sort of... it doesn't explain why we exist, but it uses the fact that we exist as a premise to answer questions about ourselves or the environment.

eg: Why do we live on a planet?
answer: Because if we lived in space, then we would die, and therefore we wouldn't be here to ask ourselves why we lived in space.

another one: Why do we walk on our hind legs, have opposable thumbs, and binocular visions?
answer: Because all three of these things enabled us to evolve as nomadic hunter-gatherers, to live by cracking open the skulls of animals and eating their brains, and to evolve into intelligent lifeforms capable of posing the above question. Without walking upright, we never would have been capable of asking that question.

You can see how this starts relating to anthropology!

It's kind of a backward approach to proving things. We answer the question "why" with the answer, "because it's impossible for us to exist in our present state otherwise." We live in a 3D universe because intelligent life could not develop in a 2D or 4D universe.

"Things are the way they are because if they weren't, then we wouldn't be here to pose such a question."

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Originally posted by Jem_hadar A new very close friend of mine, Tessa, is a very adamant, strongly opinioned atheist. I was quite surprised and very happy to hear so. Shes an atheist and a very passionate one, which, yes, i agree is rare from my experience (shes no pussy-footing atheist, thats for sure!) And shes Aussie... even more mad respect! Love that accent ppl! ~Jem~

I actually have a lot of female atheist friends. An overwhelming number of young people are turning to atheism. Sadly (for you guys), most of these girls are taken.

My gf (known on this site as DJ Bananie) used to be really really religious (from a devout catholic family) and now she considers herself agnostic at best. Idunno if it was my doing, but it's definitely good to be able to agree on things. For example, I could never get married in a church, and it's good that she can agree with me on that; it would just be so meaningless to me. I'd rather do it in someplace closer to nature... like a garden or a beach or something (not that I actually have it in mind at this point... just a thought though).

quote:

Originally posted by Jem_hadar Attaboy! Nice! Maybe have some good eats, some cool freshing beers and just talk atheist shop... that would be so awesome and so good to do! (of course it goes unsaid that some nice ubertrance would be hopefully playing in the background too... to stimulate our ears while we stimulate our brains with where we all stand and how we define ourselves individually as atheists)

fo' shizzle, let's do it up yo! And Ubertrance is a GIVEN!!

quote:

Originally posted by Sexyboy79 Well women think diferent then men. Like Chris rock said... "A man can never win a argument with a women, never!! Dont even bother.Why? Cuase men are handicaped in arguments. Why? cuase men have a need to make SENCE!

+1 to that!!!

My Mom's name is Liz, and you would not believe the kind of things she says for a sober and apparently sane person. She has a completely illogical and sometimes absurd thought process that would leave many of the mentally challenged scratching their heads in disbelief. Please don't get me wrong, I love my Mother dearly, but sometimes you really have to wonder about her... Anyway, whenever she made one of these bone headed remarks, my Dad would call it "Lizzy-logic"... So yeah, apparently more than one woman in this world suffers from this so called "Lizzy-logic".

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Originally posted by DJ_Elyot For example, I could never get married in a church, and it's good that she can agree with me on that; it would just be so meaningless to me. I'd rather do it in someplace closer to nature... like a garden or a beach or something (not that I actually have it in mind at this point... just a thought though).

Im glad to see that someone else whos an atheist besides me, sees it the same way...

...about how *if* you were to actually go thru w/ it in a church, itd just be so meaningless to you, and hence thats why ud never do it. honestly, for me it would be like turning our marriage into a joke, and id never wanna do that.

id totally wanna get married on a beach, but then again, im a total beach bum in the summer (duh! live right by Wasaga)

Its all about the wedding on the beach somewhere hot as hell and performed by the state!

~Jem~

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Originally posted by Jem_hadar Its all about the wedding on the beach somewhere hot as hell and performed by the state!

Yep, a Beach off the Mediterranean Sea would be where I would do it!

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Originally posted by SurrJRS Yep, a Beach off the Mediterranean Sea would be where I would do it!

Currently, leaning towards Aussieland... Australia... but im not too fussy...hehehe, nor am i getting married anytime soon

~Jem~

Actually I'm part of a very strict islamic sect that originates from the mountains of Syria and Lebanon, that doesn't permit me to see my wife until after the marriage ceremony let alone premarital sex, I can't drink booze or smoke any mind altering substances, and I'm forbidden to listen to music......

Fack that, put me under agnostic.


Karim

quote:

Originally posted by karim Actually I'm part of a very strict islamic sect that originates from the mountains of Syria and Lebanon, that doesn't permit me to see my wife until after the marriage ceremony let alone premarital sex, I can't drink booze or smoke any mind altering substances, and I'm forbidden to listen to music...... Fack that, put me under agnostic. Karim

proud to do so my friend!

Cheers Karim... glad to have you *partially* on board!

~Jem~

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Originally posted by Jem_hadar proud to do so my friend! Cheers Karim... glad to have you *partially* on board! ~Jem~

When you get to lay that perfect 10, you look up in the air and swear that a god exists. A truely spiritual moment. Can turn any man away from atheism....now I just gotta quit imagining what that feels like and finally go on my pilgrimage....


Karim

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Originally posted by Jem_hadar Currently, leaning towards Aussieland... Australia... but im not too fussy...hehehe, nor am i getting married anytime soon

Heh down under with the dingoes! G'day mate!

Reminds me of Ryan Phillipe in Cruel Intentions: "How are things down under? ...Blossoming, I hope." referring to Selma Blair's pubescent state...

Sarah Michelle Gellar is awesome in that movie... I think her and Selma Blair were nominated for best female-female kiss!

quote:

Originally posted by timmyboy religion was created to make ppl feel better about themselves, give them hope and so on. its not a bad thing but believeing shit blindly and then arguing based on those believes is wrong tho.

I totally believe all of that. all of the standard human prinicples are present in organized religion- you know the standard, do not kill, don't commit adultery- but believing that stories are true when there is no proof is kinda ridiculus!

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Originally posted by DJ_Bananie I totally believe all of that. all of the standard human prinicples are present in organized religion- you know the standard, do not kill, don't commit adultery- but believing that stories are true when there is no proof is kinda ridiculus!

Those principles existed before modern religion did. Religion merely qualifies them (and perhaps provides an excuse for people to follow them.) Again, from an anthropic point of view, such principles are necessary for the survival of a society such as ours.

Consider 2 prehistoric human tribes, one filled with people who killed each other, and one filled with people who believed that killing was wrong. Which one would produce the most offspring in 100 generations? Which one would die out, and which one would undergo a population explosion? It is obvious that any tribes who practiced huge amounts of killing would quickly die out, and thus, we are the descendants of people who believed that killing is wrong.

Again... simple anthropic principle. Religion perhaps just provides an excuse for people to listen to the teachings, but it's not necessary. In Canada, our law is good enough to deter the vast majority of people from killing, and in addition to that, our culture believes that killing is wrong, so people would lose the respect and love of others in the culture if they were caught killing. If you look at Maslow's heirarchy of needs, the only needs more important than love and respect are physiological needs, so we, as humans, generally only kill when we need to survive (because killing hurts our love and respect, so it is only profitable to us when it fills a more important need.) Again, this makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint.

So in fact, most of those principles would exist anyway, even if there was no religion. Even 10,000 years ago, before the agricultural revolution, and before humans even had the concept of private property, they had principles within their culture that condemned killing other humans. Maslow's heirarchy is a biologically evolved brain function that allows that to happen.

Religion is NOT NECESSARY FOR THIS PURPOSE WHATSOEVER.

And of course, I'm not criticizing your post... I'm just using it to bring out a very valid point (which you're undoubtedly aware of) and that is that religion is not necessary to prevent "sinful" action... it just reinforces our tendencies to be good (which in the end, are for our own selfish reasons anyway: being good to get into heaven is no better than being good so people will like you.)

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Originally posted by karim When you get to lay that perfect 10, you look up in the air and swear that a god exists. A truely spiritual moment. Can turn any man away from atheism....now I just gotta quit imagining what that feels like and finally go on my pilgrimage.... Karim

Amen!

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Originally posted by karim When you get to lay that perfect 10, you look up in the air and swear that a god exists. A truely spiritual moment. Can turn any man away from atheism....now I just gotta quit imagining what that feels like and finally go on my pilgrimage.... Karim

Just remember that everything you feel is a mere consequence of chemical reactions and electric signals in your brain.

Imagine a person who never understood the concept of god (we're all born weak atheists, which means we don't know what a god is and therefore can't believe in one)... and suppose this person was experiencing the same moment that you just described. Would they treat it as a spiritual moment? Of course not. They only would be able to do so if they had the knowledge of the concept of god or spirituality to begin with.

Of course, somebody had to come up with the concept of god for the first time, just as somebody had to come up with theories of gravity and quantum mechanics for the first time.

Just a thought.

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