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-- Suddenly I realized the stupidity of long buildups
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quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl What is the connection there? Which DJ's that could have been classified as trance DJ's went to Goa? As far as I know it was mainly artists like Goa Gil, Front 242, Juno Reactor that evolved EBM and Techno music into Goa trance, rather than European DJs taking early rave trance there and allowing it to evolve. So essentially, you have labels like Platipus, Harthouse, Noom releasing early and what we coin as the 'original' trance form in Germany and UK, but at the same time on the other side of the world, you have a collection of other artists discovering a similar sound ie: Goa trance. The two may have been very loosely influenced by each other, but I dont think there was any real connection there?? Bear in mind, this was before the internet and forums such as this and before laptop production. Collaboration between the two movements would have been difficult. At the best, DJs would have supported both styles of trance. I could be wrong, but I've never been shown any real proof to the contrary.

astral projection, who were among the first if not THE first goatrance producers in israel, only started producing it after one of them (or two, dont remember) came back from a trip to goa with tapes and recollections of the music there.

i don't remember how the music got there (to goa) precisely, do a little research and you'll find it.

quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl What is the connection there? Which DJ's that could have been classified as trance DJ's went to Goa? As far as I know it was mainly artists like Goa Gil, Front 242, Juno Reactor that evolved EBM and Techno music into Goa trance, rather than European DJs taking early rave trance there and allowing it to evolve. So essentially, you have labels like Platipus, Harthouse, Noom releasing early and what we coin as the 'original' trance form in Germany and UK, but at the same time on the other side of the world, you have a collection of other artists discovering a similar sound ie: Goa trance. The two may have been very loosely influenced by each other, but I dont think there was any real connection there?? Bear in mind, this was before the internet and forums such as this and before laptop production. Collaboration between the two movements would have been difficult. At the best, DJs would have supported both styles of trance. I could be wrong, but I've never been shown any real proof to the contrary.

Sven V�th, the former runner of Harthouse, made many trips to GOA in the early-90's. In fact, he signed a Trance artist to Harthouse whom he met in GOA after he heard some DAT's produced by this artist. I'm talking about Susumu Yokota, AKA Frankfurt-Tokio-Connection.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur To wit: commercial music, by its very definition, is very simple, tepid, watered down, safe and boring.

Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Radiohead, the Beastie Boys and Blur are just some of the many bands coming to break your legs for saying that.

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 the original trance is closer to goa trance than the trance today. what is called trance mainly today (the stuff Tiesto, Armin plays) is more influenced by pop and eurodance. people in goa never called the trance there for goa trance. they called it simply trance.

Some original trance is closer to techno too. Simple & trippy arpeggios, groovy basslines, techno drums etc.

Nice post by Ishkur on the previous page

Pretty much spot on.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Radiohead, the Beastie Boys and Blur are just some of the many bands coming to break your legs for saying that.

+100000000

When an artiste enters the realms of mainstream it is generally because they have built up a reputation and following and crawled their way up from that hallowed place we call underground. Maybe that statement decreases in truth now due to the maketing push from record companies forcing acts into the limelight but to say ALL mainstream music is tepid and watered down is a shocking generalisation for someone who is supposed to be so knowledgeable about music Ishkur.

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 its because the new era of producers expect the entire tune to be a massive anthem break with dazzling synth melodies. god forbid the use of repetitive buildups

this is probably the most painfully true statement out of the whole arguement and summed up in 3 lines! And yet, the surge in popularity in the UK at least has been toward minimal house from labels such as Poker Flat and Dessous. Granted, some of the more acid sounding records have really cool (in MY opinion) f*ck ups and random sounds creating acoustical hallucinations. But a lot of their tracks display characteristics of 'true' trance with long buildups where nothing changes for two minutes at a time and not a snare roll in sight.
And before I get asked for examples....

Examples:
Trenmoller - Sunstroke (trippy sounds)
http://mind-real1.com:8000/ramgen/covertus/PFR0611.rm

John Tejada - Flight to Tokyo (repetitive)
http://mind-real1.com:8000/ramgen/covertus/PFR523.rm

And guess what? Construct a set using a variety of records with differing energy levels/textures/atmosphere/whatever makes for a far more pleasurable listening experience than something which sits exactly within the boundaries of a genres definition. Unless you enjoy an hour of epic trance anthems with a breakdown at 3.53 that lasts another 2 mins before snare rollls announce the imminent rush back into the beat!

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Radiohead, the Beastie Boys and Blur are just some of the many bands coming to break your legs for saying that.

Eh... The songs some of these guys are famous in the mainstream for are pretty much exactly the types of music Ish was talking about :

Pink Floyd - Another Brick In The Wall Part 2
Beastie Boys - Fight For Your Right
Blur - Song 2

They may be critical darlings, and have a ton of awesome music in their discography, but ask any layman what their favorite Blur song is, chances are it will be "that WooHoo one".

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Radiohead, the Beastie Boys and Blur are just some of the many bands coming to break your legs for saying that.

I explain, in the next fucking paragraph in that exact same fucking post, exactly what these bands represent and why the pop industry depends on them.

No one is coming to break my legs. I have not gotten anything wrong. I cited Nirvana as an obvious example, and can probably name 10 times more bands than you can as evidence of it all. You are proving my point.

Are you even paying bloody attention at all?

why doesnt somebody just do something about this situation?

We rant and bitch and argue about it, and nothing is changing, nobody is doing anything except complaining. If this issue is so friggin important, then where the hell are the producers? Why isnt there new trance tracks that dont suck circulating across the internet right now? So the label support for the old sound has faded away, but we have new ways of distributing music now, making tunes is accessible to more people than ever before. If this music is worth a 20 page thread every month, surely it is also worth some new worthy productions and a decent internet presence, yet nothing is happening, why?

The size and frequency of these threads demonstrates that there are enough people interested in the classic trance sound, nearly everyone on here has a computer that is capable of making some kind of noise, we have formed a massive organized network for distributing music files. We have everything we need but still no worthy music has emerged, something must be wrong. There are huge amounts of kids making music, surely some of them are making the stuff you are looking for, I hope you all find them soon. It really wouldn't take much effort at all for each of the regualr complainers to find some obscure producer who makes music you like, and share the living hell out of it until they become recognized names. You constant whiners could even pick up a keyboard yourself if this music is so important to you, and we'd really like to hear your ideas about how music should sound, since you all talk about it sooooo friggin much.

Why? Becuase, and god forbid, some people actually like the music we now call Trance.

To release music on a retail level (Vinyl, CDs), you actually need a magical thing called MONEY! You ask yourself why are labels putting out these songs, which you seemingly hate, that's becuase "someone" is buying them. Does that mean the music is crap? That's is purely subjective.

Why aren't more labels trying to break out of the formula, and actually release more experimental works? It's simple, it costs money!Only in a perfect world is a label only releasing music for the sake of releasing music, for the pure and unadultarated love of the music. Maybe in in the Star Trek universe. In the real world, it's a business, and businesses need to succeed financially to survive. It's all about money, bottom line.

Speaking for myself, I make 'Trance" because that's actually what I LIKE listening to.

Remember folks, music is subjective. What Ishkur, or whomever thinks, is their opinion. It's not written in stone, so take it as is.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur I explain, in the next fucking paragraph in that exact same fucking post, exactly what these bands represent and why the pop industry depends on them. No one is coming to break my legs. I have not gotten anything wrong. I cited Nirvana as an obvious example, and can probably name 10 times more bands than you can as evidence of it all. You are proving my point. Are you even paying bloody attention at all?

No. You are generalising, as always. If you actually look at the history of these acts in detail, they don't fit into your template very well at all. Blur started life as the most derivative baggy-indie band ever, and it took three albums to gain any real individuality. Likewise: the Beastie Boys started out as something of a manufactured joke band, but they ended up coming up with the money.

I am drunk at the time of writing, so be amazed if this post makes sense, and expect something more extensive tomorrow afternoon.

Out.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 why doesnt somebody just do something about this situation? We rant and bitch and argue about it, and nothing is changing, nobody is doing anything except complaining. If this issue is so friggin important, then where the hell are the producers? Why isnt there new trance tracks that dont suck circulating across the internet right now? So the label support for the old sound has faded away, but we have new ways of distributing music now, making tunes is accessible to more people than ever before. If this music is worth a 20 page thread every month, surely it is also worth some new worthy productions and a decent internet presence, yet nothing is happening, why? The size and frequency of these threads demonstrates that there are enough people interested in the classic trance sound, nearly everyone on here has a computer that is capable of making some kind of noise, we have formed a massive organized network for distributing music files. We have everything we need but still no worthy music has emerged, something must be wrong. There are huge amounts of kids making music, surely some of them are making the stuff you are looking for, I hope you all find them soon. It really wouldn't take much effort at all for each of the regualr complainers to find some obscure producer who makes music you like, and share the living hell out of it until they become recognized names. You constant whiners could even pick up a keyboard yourself if this music is so important to you, and we'd really like to hear your ideas about how music should sound, since you all talk about it sooooo friggin much.

if you havent been noticing, most of the people who constantly whine (not necessarily in this thread) are on about the 1998-2001 period, not the early hypnotic stuff, but the 'better' version of what's out there today. there are very few people here who have actually heard a trance track from the early nineties not to mention liked it.

and i have yet to see any of those who did like trance back then beg for more of it now (or maybe i have and forgot about it).

i'd say new directions would be more intersting for them than a reiteration of the glory days.


what most of the people here seemingly fail to realise, is that this is a debate in semantics, not a cry for the old days.
well, that and a cry for more evolution in the music.

the worst are those "uplifting" trance builds that are like 2 minutes long and when they finnally go into the beat it's not even hard

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T what most of the people here seemingly fail to realise, is that this is a debate in semantics, not a cry for the old days. well, that and a cry for more evolution in the music.

I just cry.

anything by shpongle because it puts me to sleep

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J No. You are generalising, as always. If you actually look at the history of these acts in detail, they don't fit into your template very well at all.

Actually, yes they do, and your quick, sordid history of Blur and the Beasties proves why they do.

Seriously. Put down the bottle, and stop insisting that you're not agreeing with me when you really are.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Actually, yes they do, and your quick, sordid history of Blur and the Beasties proves why they do. Seriously. Put down the bottle, and stop insisting that you're not agreeing with me when you really are.

I don't get it. I didn't get it last night, and I don't get it now. What is this point you're trying to make that excuses these bands from the apparent blandness of all popular music?

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit anything by shpongle because it puts me to sleep

There is help for ADD now. You can live a normal life!

quote:

Originally posted by Aquarian Major league - wonder Thought it would never end.

LMAO that just killed me!!

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I don't get it. I didn't get it last night, and I don't get it now. What is this point you're trying to make that excuses these bands from the apparent blandness of all popular music?

These bands are what the pop music world feeds on to keep itself trendy. But it did not create them.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur These bands are what the pop music world feeds on to keep itself trendy. But it did not create them.

Yes... that simply doesn't apply. At all.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Cinos There is help for ADD now. You can live a normal life!

Yes, God forbid someone saying anything negative about your favourite producer(s?).

Well, here we go: I don't like them particularly either.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Yes... that simply doesn't apply. At all.

Okay, maybe you're just dense. Go back and read my original point again.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Okay, maybe you're just dense. Go back and read my original point again.

I have. Repeatedly. And it is a load of cobblers. Try again.

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