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-- Those pesky Iranians at it again.
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I love how the western media keeps calling the 15 sailors hostages instead of prisoners.

I love how ignorant kids such as yourself who live in CHICAGO, a major western city, write BS on message boards.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Iran is not terrorist if thats what some of you are implying

I'm not implying it - I'm outright saying it. Iran is a terrorist state.

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Originally posted by CHRles I love how ignorant kids such as yourself who live in CHICAGO, a major western city, write BS on message boards.

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Originally posted by CHRles I love how ignorant kids such as yourself who live in CHICAGO, a major western city, write BS on message boards.

Sorry.. its got nothin on Nashville.

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Originally posted by CHRles I'm not implying it - I'm outright saying it. Iran is a terrorist state.

Yeah, that's why the soldiers were released unharmed, and without any negotiations...

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Originally posted by jonSun I love how the western media keeps calling the 15 sailors hostages instead of prisoners.

thin line

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Originally posted by CHRles I'm not implying it - I'm outright saying it. Iran is a terrorist state.

Using your logic one could easily call the US a terrorist state.

Put some work and draw a proper comparison to the current system of dragging people out of foreign countries, sticking them on mock trials, forced confessions and then hiding them out of sight from the foreign media, diplomatic contact and non-bias legal representation.

Now where might we have had that happen lately?
Hmmm, come on...
It'll be a good argument for a change, trust me on that

Course, that might actually require effort and a holistic view of the situation rather than one-sentence rebuttals spat out like petulant children and calling each other names like you usually do.

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Originally posted by Lilith Put some work and draw a proper comparison to the current system of dragging people out of foreign countries, sticking them on mock trials, forced confessions and then hiding them out of sight from the foreign media, diplomatic contact and non-bias legal representation. Now where might we have had that happen lately? Hmmm, come on... It'll be a good argument for a change, trust me on that Course, that might actually require effort and a holistic view of the situation rather than one-sentence rebuttals spat out like petulant children and calling each other names like you usually do.

Lilith, marry me! LOL

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Originally posted by CHRles I'm not implying it - I'm outright saying it. Iran is a terrorist state.

and Iam outright saying that you are an idiot.

Well there you go - another reason why you're an idiot and I'm not

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Originally posted by CHRles Well there you go - another reason why you're an idiot and I'm not

Wow... just stop posting in this subforum please.

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Originally posted by Lilith Put some work and draw a proper comparison to the current system of dragging people out of foreign countries, sticking them on mock trials, forced confessions and then hiding them out of sight from the foreign media, diplomatic contact and non-bias legal representation. Now where might we have had that happen lately? Hmmm, come on... It'll be a good argument for a change, trust me on that Course, that might actually require effort and a holistic view of the situation rather than one-sentence rebuttals spat out like petulant children and calling each other names like you usually do.

Hmmm ... the sailors werent on mock trials. They just confessed on TV. Iran didnt drag people out of other countries, the sailors were taken in a disputed area that Saddam claimed that is actually Iranian waters. How long were the sailors in Iranian custody? Compare that to the long period of time than USA held illegally a politically immune Iranian diplomats they seized on at least 2 occassions ;-) Isnt that terrorism, seizing diplomats on embassy grounds, as happened in northern Iraq not so long ago? If Iranians were terrorist, why would they release the sailors so quick with no demands, compensation or whatever given? They actually acted generously here.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium If Iranians were terrorist, why would they release the sailors so quick with no demands, compensation or whatever given? They actually acted generously here.

you don't get it. you rarely do.

Iran got what they wanted. they get it everytime they take hostages. you are proof of that.

Oh come on...

That's an internationally disputed bit of water by the way, but anyway they got caught which is the first step in this process.
Some of the servicemen had publicly confessed to this "crime", apologised and said they were treated well, compared to the inmates at Abu Ghraib.
Iran claimed all of them admitted their guilt.
Tehran's ambassador in Moscow said last week that legal proceedings had begun and that the prisoners would be "punished".

Note the language there?

It sounds very, very familiar if you run the parallel of the coalition of the willing's model for handling a detainee under "crimes".

However...

There is no need to actually keep them
There is no need for the actual show trial

All they had to do was hang onto them long enough for all the nervous nellies out there to get in a fuss thinking theres going to be a war, the press to be frothing at the mouth expecting some heads to be hacked off and interviews with the distraught families that never expect to see their mums, dads and kids again.

Come on, it's really not that hard to see what Iran was angling for here.
It's not military
It's not terror
It's not even just to make a simple point that they can do it

Now in an argument, people often take a subjective high ground of strength.
Which one is one of the strongest?
Considering the parallel between Bush's well publicised, awful treatment of "criminals" captured by coalition forces and the parallel of the Iranians capturing the UK marines.

Which high ground does Iran now appear to the international community and all the muslim angry community, students in Che shirts and all the other pallid little wanna be warriors out there in their mums bedrooms to occupy after this 'show'?

I'll tell you rather than have you wondering all night.

They won the moral high ground compared to the coalition.

That is all, now all the people out there who wander through life like yourself and many others believing all the press tells you (and better yet if it's anti-american press) can go...

"Well baa, baa the Iranians don't torture people in baa, baa and stack them up in pyramids, baa, baa, rape the woman, strip them and stick them in solitary for 5years. Baa, baa, no, they let them go because they're decent people and baa, baa, didn't ask for anything, shake of the hand on the telly and then back home for tea... baa, baa"

And all the other little people out there who are pro-coalition can go...

"Well baa, baa, maybe those Iranians aren't so baa, baa bad after all compared to our governments... hmm baa, baa and they're not hacking off heads like the insurgent radicals in Iraq either. Maybe we can deal baa, baa with these people because they're civilised and not the monster our baa, baa western press has been portraying them as."


If you cannot see that, then really you've lost the point of politics in the most simple, objective sense that you must have an appearance to the public of being a nice civilised person in a nice civilised society. Even if you do have women beaten in the street, students dragged out of universities, enforce draconian dress codes, warmongering sermons and quite a lot of people shot for disagreeing with you and a long, long list of atrocities which happened during the revolution.

This is the new 'public image' of Iran, not the men with AK47's jumping around a burning US flag chanting "Death to America" and that is what the exercise of letting the marines go is all about. Because the world will not sell nuclear tech and materials to people who do the latter.
They will do it though to people who at least appear civilised and looking down the barrel of the gun more sanctions from ALL the UN, Iran needs as much ammo as it can lay its hands on, the moral high ground ammunition will serve them very, very well in the future for that purpose.


And that ends the last 2 weeks lesson on how to look good to stupid people.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Hmmm ... the sailors werent on mock trials. They just confessed on TV. Iran didnt drag people out of other countries, the sailors were taken in a disputed area that Saddam claimed that is actually Iranian waters. How long were the sailors in Iranian custody? Compare that to the long period of time than USA held illegally a politically immune Iranian diplomats they seized on at least 2 occassions ;-) Isnt that terrorism, seizing diplomats on embassy grounds, as happened in northern Iraq not so long ago? If Iranians were terrorist, why would they release the sailors so quick with no demands, compensation or whatever given? They actually acted generously here.

Of course they were made to "confess". Not only that, but only a backwards ass country like Iran would go around parading their hostages on TV. There's nothing "generous" here. Iran was under so much pressure that something finally gave.
As for the Iranian diplomats, they definitely had whats coming to them since they helped support terrorism.

Iran - backwards ass, fanatical, poor country
America - one of the greatest countries on earth

Awwww you guys are so naive. You believe that Gunatanamo/Abu Gharib type places don't exist in places like Iran?

Watching the British sailors live right now.
The fuckin Iranians of course are guilty as fuck. They even went so far as to isloate the lone woman sailor from the rest, simply b/c she's a woman, but that's not enough - they told her that they'd released everyone but her. For 4 days she was under the impression she was the only one there.
Fuckin moslim extremist countries with their attitudes towards women.

BTW, looks like war with this awful country is still on unless Iran starts to fully comply with U.N. demands

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith Put some work and draw a proper comparison to the current system of dragging people out of foreign countries, sticking them on mock trials, forced confessions and then hiding them out of sight from the foreign media, diplomatic contact and non-bias legal representation. Now where might we have had that happen lately? Hmmm, come on... It'll be a good argument for a change, trust me on that Course, that might actually require effort and a holistic view of the situation rather than one-sentence rebuttals spat out like petulant children and calling each other names like you usually do.

Yeah, but the people who the US is detaining are suspected terrorists. The sailors detained by Iran were captured outside of Iranian territorial waters while they were performing a UN mission under a UN mandate. I'm not saying everything the US is doing with detaining terrorists is kosher, but its a totally different situation.

Even if they were in Iranian waters what they did was still illegal. Warships and naval auxilliary are immune from arrest, seizure, and inspection by other nations unless the commanding officer of the ship gives permission.

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Originally posted by CHRles Of course they were made to "confess". Not only that, but only a backwards ass country like Iran would go around parading their hostages on TV. There's nothing "generous" here. Iran was under so much pressure that something finally gave. As for the Iranian diplomats, they definitely had whats coming to them since they helped support terrorism. Iran - backwards ass, fanatical, poor country America - one of the greatest countries on earth

oh stfu you dirty neocon,go and take your bullshit elsewhere.

I love how the out of context quote used in the title makes it seem like they are admitting to spying but then when you read the article you of course find out that it is not the case. Yeah, its common ass sense that they are going to gather intelligence on Iranian operations in the area. And the fact that the Iranians kidnapped at gunpoint and illegally detained coalition forces operating under a UN mandate shows exactly why intelligence about their operations needs to be gathered.

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Originally posted by CHRles Awwww you guys are so naive. You believe that Gunatanamo/Abu Gharib type places don't exist in places like Iran?

lots of countries have prisons like that,why pick on Iran?

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Originally posted by CHRles Awwww you guys are so naive. You believe that Gunatanamo/Abu Gharib type places don't exist in places like Iran?

LOL. Well, I don't recall reading or hearing about them until Mossadeq was overthrown and the Shah was installed, who had his serect police/death sqauds (i.e. SAVAK) and torture chambers. Guess who funded and organized that . Don't know if they still have any, but I wouldn't be surprised eigther way.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z LOL. Well, I don't recall reading or hearing about them until Mossadeq was overthrown and the Shah was installed, who had his serect police/death sqauds (i.e. SAVAK) and torture chambers. Guess who funded and organized that . Don't know if they still have any, but I wouldn't be surprised eigther way.

well it was ok for them to have these police/death squads and wasnt considerd bad or evil because the U.S was fully supporting them,but now they evil for doin those things.

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